Have We Seen The Last Of Zemgus?

[Zamboni]

I’m rather ambivalent about Girgensons. If he stays, he’s a serviceable 4th liner who can play spot duty on the 3rd line. If he goes, he’s not hard to replace. 

[7+6=13]

The thing that I like about Girgs and Larry is their physical play.   

They go in the game and throw their bodies around more than any offensive players we've had in recent memory.  They've done it ever how futile the game/season has been.  They are a type of 4th line.  If the FO has a plan for a scoring 4th line then it should be factored in how much vs giving up the physicality of these two. 

[sweetlou]

18 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

The thing that I like about Girgs and Larry is their physical play.   

They go in the game and throw their bodies around more than any offensive players we've had in recent memory.  They've done it ever how futile the game/season has been.  They are a type of 4th line.  If the FO has a plan for a scoring 4th line then it should be factored in how much vs giving up the physicality of these two. 

Larry averaged 1.5 hits for the year.  Yes he had some games where he would have 3 or 4 hits a game, but that means you have to have games where you don't have a single hit.  I have never thought of Larry as a hitter.  To me he is slow, some what responsible in his own end, and a 50% face off guy.  On most teams he is in the minors. which is where he was before being traded to Buffalo.  It is time to move on from him and get some better players!!

[SwampD]

On 5/20/2019 at 11:16 AM, sweetlou said:

Larry averaged 1.5 hits for the year.  Yes he had some games where he would have 3 or 4 hits a game, but that means you have to have games where you don't have a single hit.  I have never thought of Larry as a hitter.  To me he is slow, some what responsible in his own end, and a 50% face off guy.  On most teams he is in the minors. which is where he was before being traded to Buffalo.  It is time to move on from him and get some better players!!

Hits are only one aspect of playing a physical game.

This is a recording.

Edited May 21, 2019 by SwampD

[7+6=13]

2 hours ago, sweetlou said:

Larry averaged 1.5 hits for the year.  Yes he had some games where he would have 3 or 4 hits a game, but that means you have to have games where you don't have a single hit.  I have never thought of Larry as a hitter.  To me he is slow, some what responsible in his own end, and a 50% face off guy.  On most teams he is in the minors. which is where he was before being traded to Buffalo.  It is time to move on from him and get some better players!!

If you don't think he's a physical player then you don't watch games.  

[inkman]

4 hours ago, sweetlou said:

Larry averaged 1.5 hits for the year.  Yes he had some games where he would have 3 or 4 hits a game, but that means you have to have games where you don't have a single hit.  I have never thought of Larry as a hitter.  To me he is slow, some what responsible in his own end, and a 50% face off guy.  On most teams he is in the minors. which is where he was before being traded to Buffalo.  It is time to move on from him and get some better players!!

Let's get those better players first before we escort a serviceable guy out the door. 

[Thorny]

On 5/18/2019 at 7:13 PM, Taro T said:

Really having a hard time seeing why people seem so gung ho to get rud of Girgensons & Larsson.  They are what they are; good 4th liners that excel on the pk.

Having them make up 2/3's of the 4th line hasn't been & isn't why they keep missing the playoffs.

Is 11 goals combined from 2/3's of your 4th line legitimately "good"? Actually asking, not sure how it is around the league. But that seems pretty low. That's a 16/17 goal fourth line spread out over 3 players..

---

I think when people say "we want them gone" it necessarily includes the caveat that we replace them with better players. It's not a high bar. 

Everyone says we need to add better players. If it's not the Girgs and Larssons sent packing to make room, then who?

Edited May 20, 2019 by Thorny

[Curt]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Everyone says we need to add better players. If it's not the Girgs and Larssons sent packing to make room, then who?

I would get rid of Sobotka and Wilson first.  Although Wilson is cheaper, so maybe not him if that small amount of savings is an issue.  I don’t think the cap will be an issue for Buffalo in 2019-20 though.

[JohnRobertEichel]

I'm not strongly opposed to keeping Girgensons as a 4th line LW, occasional 3rd liner, and emergency center. I also don't think it's fair to say we need to get rid of him simply because he's been around a losing culture for a long time (what about Jack Eichel, for example, who has been a big part of the team for the entirety of the past 3 seasons in which the Sabres have horribly underachieved?).

But here's the thing: we have too many other candidates more suited for the 3rd and 4th lines next season (Rodrigues, Olofsson, Sheary, Smith, Mittelstadt, Larsson, Wilson, Asplund, Sobotka, Okposo, Thompson, Nylander...I just named 12 others for only 6 active spots). Krueger will probably also insist on a couple new additions from outside the organization. I just don't see it working out for Girgensons here any longer because of the numbers game for roster spots.

[7+6=13]

Our first line and 4th lines aren't the issue - of course the 1st line will be without Skinner. 

The 2nd and 3rd lines are the problem.  We're having to shuffle first line guys to the 2nd to make it stronger and 4th line talent is playing 3rd line.  That's not working.  

We need to Skinner, a 2nd line center, a top 6 winger and a top 4 defensman, IMO to be better.  I doubt we can accomplish all of that in free agency.  

What we really need is a couple of these young players to come up and be answers.  Not just get acclimated to the NHL and continue a slow progression.  We need young guys to become important pieces, quick.  

[Taro T]

23 hours ago, Thorny said:

Is 11 goals combined from 2/3's of your 4th line legitimately "good"? Actually asking, not sure how it is around the league. But that seems pretty low. That's a 16/17 goal fourth line spread out over 3 players..

---

I think when people say "we want them gone" it necessarily includes the caveat that we replace them with better players. It's not a high bar. 

Everyone says we need to add better players. If it's not the Girgs and Larssons sent packing to make room, then who?

IF they keep the PK in the top quarter of the league & get the bulk of the ice time against the other team's top line and can hold that unit to a goal (or less) against per game, really couldn't care less if they never score a goal all year.  That would be contributing positively to winning hockey, which is what everything's all about.

[Pimlach]

Interesting comments here as always.  

We know there needs to be some talent added to the top 6.  At least 2, maybe 3 new forwards brought in for 2nd line duty.  That means 2 or 3 current forwards gone -  likely means from the pool of Sobotka, Larry, Girgs, Pommer, and Wilson.  Sobotka and Pommer are  likely two that will be gone, but any of the others could be cleared out to make room for players within or own development system.  I’m not sure Girgs ranks ahead of the rest, at times he does.  

Ollofsson, Nylander, and Tage will battle for spots but none are PK or defensive specialists. . 

Girgs is a player I liked and wanted to see succeed.  Consistency is not always there for him   He and Larry both have stretches of good play and stretches of not much.  They have PK value and can lock down an opponents #1 lines at times so I think we keep them until better options are present.    

 

Edited May 25, 2019 by Pimlach

[inkman]

On 5/20/2019 at 11:16 AM, sweetlou said:

Larry averaged 1.5 hits for the year.  Yes he had some games where he would have 3 or 4 hits a game, but that means you have to have games where you don't have a single hit.  I have never thought of Larry as a hitter.  To me he is slow, some what responsible in his own end, and a 50% face off guy.  On most teams he is in the minors. which is where he was before being traded to Buffalo.  It is time to move on from him and get some better players!!

He was in the minors in 2012 because he was 20 years old.