Non Sabres Deadline Trades/Rumors

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, ... said:

I'm not saying he sucks.  I'm saying he's not a valuable addition to the team and that he is over rated by people on this board.

What good are his potential skillz to the team, what value is there, when they can't be leveraged? The value exists in potential and on paper but not in reality.  You can say that about a lot of guys.  

If he can be moved to get someone on the team who actually makes a difference in team production, he should be.  We might never be the team that he blossom ons, just like we weren't for ROR. 

OMFG for the last time, ROR was good before, during, and after he came to Buffalo. 

[...]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I see you are editing the post I was referring too now. Is that because you took things out of context and was wrong?

I don't know WTF you're over-reacting to now. Breathe and observe how the posts unfolded. If you're still upset, I can direct you to a good CBD store.

Just now, LGR4GM said:

OMFG for the last time, ROR was good before, during, and after he came to Buffalo. 

OMFG, I'm not down on, or criticizing ROR, BUT HE NEVER MADE AN IMPACT ON THE PERFORMANCE OF THE TEAM.  Whoever is to blame for that.

[Randall Flagg]

1 minute ago, ... said:

I'm not saying he sucks.  I'm saying he's not a valuable addition to the team and that he is over rated by people on this board.

What good are his potential skillz to the team, what value is there, when they can't be leveraged? The value exists in potential and on paper but not in reality.  You can say that about a lot of guys.  

If he can be moved to get someone on the team who actually makes a difference in team production, he should be.  We might never be the team that he blossom ons, just like we weren't for ROR. 

Any time you can add a good NHL defenseman to your team, it's a valuable addition. Lost in the struggle of this season is the fact that our transition game is worlds better than it was a few seasons ago, and we've been consistently in the top half of the league in all defensive metrics, even score adjusted, since Phil got here basically. That stuff isn't a given and hasn't always been the case, and it's because of players like Brandon. Now our attention has shifted entirely to a different area of the roster because of it. In fixing that different area, you WILL see those skills leveraged more often. You already have - I'm pretty sure he has more than double the goal total of any other Sabre D since he was traded here.

And that's true of all skaters, so let me know when we're not making that trade because we value Montour too much

[Randall Flagg]

2 minutes ago, ... said:

OMFG, I'm not down on, or criticizing ROR, BUT HE NEVER MADE AN IMPACT ON THE PERFORMANCE OF THE TEAM.  Whoever is to blame for that.

Sure he did. Replace him with a league average player, or worse, and you knock 5-10 points off of any of those seasons. Just because the rest of the team was up to snuff, doesn't mean you should be freed of any guilt in tossing the few parts of the roster that are functional

It's still not smart unless there's a clear upgrade available, which nobody who likes Montour would disagree with

This is why for months before the ROR trade I was adamant that the only acceptable one would be for a single player that's as good or better, or for two players a shade worse but still good, and in positions of need

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Sure he did. Replace him with a league average player, or worse, and you knock 5-10 points off of any of those seasons. Just because the rest of the team was up to snuff, doesn't mean you should be freed of any guilt in tossing the few parts of the roster that are functional

It's still not smart unless there's a clear upgrade available, which nobody who likes Montour would disagree with

This is why for months before the ROR trade I was adamant that the only acceptable one would be for a single player that's as good or better, or for two players a shade worse but still good, and in positions of need

I mean we are now arguing that ROR didn't impact the team this has gone off the rails. Off the rails... I think I have heard that somewhere else today. Anyways... I agree with what you are saying here. 

Well it has been fun. If @triumph_communesever comes back to explain who is better Sam Bennett or Sam Reinhart let me know. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I can't wait for the Sabres to be good again, then the discussion around here will be good again.

The last 5, or so, pages in this thread have been only very slightly more civil than during the darkest hours of the tank years.  Thank you again Sabres management for that shining moment.

The other threads most active today are not much better.

[triumph_communes]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Please answer the question. Do you think Sam Bennett is better than Sam Reinhart? 

Ya'll getting way too invested in being angry if your sarcasm radar couldn't pick that up.

[Zamboni]

14 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I mean we are now arguing that ROR didn't impact the team this has gone off the rails. Off the rails... I think I have heard that somewhere else today. Anyways... I agree with what you are saying here. 

Well it has been fun. If @triumph_communesever comes back to explain who is better Sam Bennett or Sam Reinhart let me know. 

Yea, well ... get in line because he also never answered my question either. 

[freester]

Just now, triumph_communes said:

Ya'll getting way too invested in being angry if your sarcasm radar couldn't pick that up.

Sam Bennett sucks. He is no better than Vesey.  

[...]

9 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Any time you can add a good NHL defenseman to your team, it's a valuable addition. Lost in the struggle of this season is the fact that our transition game is worlds better than it was a few seasons ago, and we've been consistently in the top half of the league in all defensive metrics, even score adjusted, since Phil got here basically. That stuff isn't a given and hasn't always been the case, and it's because of players like Brandon. Now our attention has shifted entirely to a different area of the roster because of it. In fixing that different area, you WILL see those skills leveraged more often. You already have - I'm pretty sure he has more than double the goal total of any other Sabre D since he was traded here.

And that's true of all skaters, so let me know when we're not making that trade because we value Montour too much

 

6 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Sure he did. Replace him with a league average player, or worse, and you knock 5-10 points off of any of those seasons. Just because the rest of the team was up to snuff, doesn't mean you should be freed of any guilt in tossing the few parts of the roster that are functional

It's still not smart unless there's a clear upgrade available, which nobody who likes Montour would disagree with

This is why for months before the ROR trade I was adamant that the only acceptable one would be for a single player that's as good or better, or for two players a shade worse but still good, and in positions of need

We will forever be working with what-if's, hypotheticals, and paper darlings if there isn't a vision that ties it all together into something greater than the sum of the parts. It's not the fault of ROR, Montour, Eichel, Skinner, Samson, and all of the other "good" parts if they're not creating, together, something that works, but they since they aren't their value TO THE TEAM isn't any better NOW than any other player. 

Are we certain that we're finally just a few parts short of something that clicks? I'm not. We're endlessly in that position it seems. 

Montour has fine skillz. Frankly, I think he's a sub-par defender (which makes him average on this team). If another team wants him and we get something that works in return, then that's where his real value lies, not in what could be if we ever get there, where ever there is.

 

 

 

[triumph_communes]

3 minutes ago, freester said:

Sam Bennett sucks. He is no better than Vesey.  

Eh, he's a unique player.  More valuable to a team than a Vesey, who can easily go invisible for entire games.  Bennet is no top-6 talent, or a winger to slide up and down a top-9, but he plays a heavy game that makes any line following him up happy the other team had fear struck in them, and that's an element this Sabres team really lacks.  Not that I'd give up much for him, or have him as the main target of any trade, but I think anyone is silly if they don't think he'd be a major addition to our 3rd line.

[Doohickie]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

He’s also getting benched and playing largely on the 4th line.

What do we need him for then?  We already have an Okposo.

[Randall Flagg]

6 minutes ago, ... said:

 

We will forever be working with what-if's, hypotheticals, and paper darlings if there isn't a vision that ties it all together into something greater than the sum of the parts. It's not the fault of ROR, Montour, Eichel, Skinner, Samson, and all of the other "good" parts if they're not creating, together, something that works, but they since they aren't their value TO THE TEAM isn't any better NOW than any other player. 

Are we certain that we're finally just a few parts short of something that clicks? I'm not. We're endlessly in that position it seems. 

Montour has fine skillz. Frankly, I think he's a sub-par defender (which makes him average on this team). If another team wants him and we get something that works in return, then that's where his real value lies, not in what could be if we ever get there, where ever there is.

 

 

 

For the most part, they ARE their value to the team though. None of these players are adding any significant amount less than their ideal value to the Sabres' standings position - Let's pretend you could find out that Montour contributed 4 more points than replacement level to Anaheim. He's doing that here too. Just because that 4 points means more when you're going from 88-92 than it does going from 74-78, doesn't remove any of the value of that player, because the difference in these two cases has nothing to do with the players we're referring to in the first place. So if you have players that move the needle in the positive direction relative to the same team without him, which happens in the case of the solid-to-good players we're talking about here, you shouldn't be interested in moving them unless a clear upgrade is available

And fans liking the player and outlining this position doesn't constitute over-valuing 

Edited November 22, 2019 by Randall Flagg

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

I get the skepticism, but he isn’t Vesey.  If the trade includes a bottom 6 guy or someone like Scandella and a lower pick, or something like that, then whatever, go for it.  What’s the harm?

If it's a rearranging the deck chairs trade, hard pass.  If there are pieces we want off the team going out, and improvements coming back, then maybe.  But bringing someone in with 0 goals and 0 assists doesn't seem like an improvement.

[LGR4GM]

12 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Eh, he's a unique player.  More valuable to a team than a Vesey, who can easily go invisible for entire games.  Bennet is no top-6 talent, or a winger to slide up and down a top-9, but he plays a heavy game that makes any line following him up happy the other team had fear struck in them, and that's an element this Sabres team really lacks.  Not that I'd give up much for him, or have him as the main target of any trade, but I think anyone is silly if they don't think he'd be a major addition to our 3rd line.

? 

[Doohickie]

Oopsie

 

Edited November 22, 2019 by Doohickie

[Randall Flagg]

I'm not sure how Sabres players feel, but Bennett is a -4 against us so rather than being scared when he steps on the ice, I get excited because there's a good chance we may just score a goal

[In The Buff]

28 minutes ago, ... said:

I don't know WTF you're over-reacting to now. Breathe and observe how the posts unfolded. If you're still upset, I can direct you to a good CBD store.

OMFG, I'm not down on, or criticizing ROR, BUT HE NEVER MADE AN IMPACT ON THE PERFORMANCE OF THE TEAM.  Whoever is to blame for that.

I get the point you're trying to make, but with what you're saying you could add Eichel to that list. Eichels our best player but we're still a crap team so how impactful is he if we're still crap? The thing about ROR & Eichel is that we know they are both 2 excellent players. We weren't crap because of them. We're crap because of the lack of quality pieces around them.

There should be no doubt at all that if ROR were still here we'd look a lot better. Because now 2 years later we have a couple added pieces, (MOJO, VO) but with ROR being gone, have 1 crucial piece removed. A strong 2 way 2C.

Even though its far from a finished product, I'd much rather have this than what we have now:

Skinner-Eichel-Reinhart
Olofsson-ROR-Johansson
Vesey-Mittelstadt-Asplund
Girgensons-Larsson-Lazar
Okposo/Rodrigues

Cozens next year in our lineup as well. I'd feel a lot more comfortable with how our team would look then, than i do now

[triumph_communes]

hmmm.  Nashville would buy Turris out before they retain more than 2 million.  But something is going on in that locker room.  Turris would be much more useful than Okposo, even if it sticks with us longer:

 

Turris (33% retained) + Granlund (9.75AAV) for Okposo + Scandella (10.0AAV)

 

 

[Randall Flagg]

3 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

hmmm.  Nashville would buy Turris out before they retain more than 2 million.  But something is going on in that locker room.  Turris would be much more useful than Okposo, even if it sticks with us longer:

 

Turris (33% retained) + Granlund (9.75AAV) for Okposo + Scandella (10.0AAV)

 

 

Typo on that Granlund AAV?

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, Randall Flagg said:

Sure he did. Replace him with a league average player, or worse, and you knock 5-10 points off of any of those seasons. Just because the rest of the team was up to snuff, doesn't mean you should be freed of any guilt in tossing the few parts of the roster that are functional

It's still not smart unless there's a clear upgrade available, which nobody who likes Montour would disagree with

This is why for months before the ROR trade I was adamant that the only acceptable one would be for a single player that's as good or better, or for two players a shade worse but still good, and in positions of need

Well if Mr. “I’ll Drill Another Well” had agreed to pay the bonus, Elias Lindholm and Jeff Skinner would have been part of the return. 

[Cascade Youth]

I want the last 10 minutes of my life back.  

[Doohickie]

I want the last 10 years of my life back.

[DHawerchuk10]

1 hour ago, Randall Flagg said:

Typo on that Granlund AAV?

He converted it to metric dollars :)

[Scottysabres]

38 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I want the last 10 years of my life back.

30 for me ?