Hoss Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 Where has it ever been reported Buffalo and Toronto were the only places he would waive for? I don’t believe him fully but he did say himself that he never vetoed a deal anywhere and indicated he never would have. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 Just now, Radar said: Yeah, the ROR deal was terrible. Outside of that I have no real problems with our GM. Also not sure of the whys and the who's involved with the ROR deal. Not even the record of his teams? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 Just now, TrueBlueGED said: Not even the record of his teams? He took over a crap team. I believe he needs more time to judge him. This off season/draft and teams performance and then next year at this time we should know more. Housley turned out bad but a lot of people were wrong about that one. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsam4031 Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Derrico said: It looks like (and is) a terrible trade. Let’s see what the first becomes. I’m also not going to give up on a 21 year old former first round pick who has that kind of a shot. Tage obviously has some shortfalls but because some of these young guys tear up the nhl from day 1 I think we sometimes forget that developing a player takes several years and most start hitting their prime around 24. That’s still 3 years away. Just pointing out that due to the circumstances of the trade (and beyond Tage control) he is a whipping boy. I still think he’s an nhl player with some upside. Who knows how much but I just hate how everyone’s writing him off already. Does Tage remind anyone of Steve Bernier. That's who I see every time I watch him play. Seems like that sort of trade for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Let's Go B-Lo said: Bernier at least punched a guy that one time. Thompson's shot is sexy but other than that he reminds me of a giraffe stuck in a folding chair. This is incredible 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 Just now, Radar said: Yeah, the ROR deal was terrible. Outside of that I have no real problems with our GM. Also not sure of the whys and the who's involved with the ROR deal. I wasn't happy with the Kane deal either, even though he lucked out in the end and got a 1st round pick because San Jose extended him. I know the minute I type this it will unleash the parade of Botterill apologists running to his defense regarding Kane's flaws, market forces, and whatever other excuses but that trade was the first look at his dart thrower/volume shooter approach and it was not good for the following reasons. 1) If he knew he either didn't want to re-sign Kane or that Kane didn't want to re-sign here he should have moved him earlier rather than waiting until the deadline 2) The organization under his tenure has been remarkably tight lipped (which is fine or even good) but it was well known and reported that he demanded 4 pieces including a 1st round pick to move Kane and basically every GM in the league thought that was way too much. 3) Because of his 4 pieces demand including a first round pick and the fact that he held firm to his asking price until right near the deadline it severely limited our ability to replace Kane (an important part of our top 6 at the time) without waiting multiple seasons for whatever futures he would gain to develop. I for one would have rather gotten a near ready prospect that could have helped the team sooner than a conditional pick more than a year out (at the time) and a mediocre prospect like Danny O'Regan who will probably never contribute to the Sabres in any meaningful way. In the end we got a 1st rounder though and he was able to turn that late first and Guhle into Montour so it looks better now than it did at the time. I'm not a fan of his dart thrower approach though. For a guy who is supposed the subject matter expect for all things Buffalo Sabres hockey, I'd expect better than a guy who seems to prefer the volume shooting approach rather than using his knowledge and skills to identify specific guys who can improve the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Drunkard said: I wasn't happy with the Kane deal either, even though he lucked out in the end and got a 1st round pick because San Jose extended him. I know the minute I type this it will unleash the parade of Botterill apologists running to his defense regarding Kane's flaws, market forces, and whatever other excuses but that trade was the first look at his dart thrower/volume shooter approach and it was not good for the following reasons. 1) If he knew he either didn't want to re-sign Kane or that Kane didn't want to re-sign here he should have moved him earlier rather than waiting until the deadline 2) The organization under his tenure has been remarkably tight lipped (which is fine or even good) but it was well known and reported that he demanded 4 pieces including a 1st round pick to move Kane and basically every GM in the league thought that was way too much. 3) Because of his 4 pieces demand including a first round pick and the fact that he held firm to his asking price until right near the deadline it severely limited our ability to replace Kane (an important part of our top 6 at the time) without waiting multiple seasons for whatever futures he would gain to develop. I for one would have rather gotten a near ready prospect that could have helped the team sooner than a conditional pick more than a year out (at the time) and a mediocre prospect like Danny O'Regan who will probably never contribute to the Sabres in any meaningful way. In the end we got a 1st rounder though and he was able to turn that late first and Guhle into Montour so it looks better now than it did at the time. I'm not a fan of his dart thrower approach though. For a guy who is supposed the subject matter expect for all things Buffalo Sabres hockey, I'd expect better than a guy who seems to prefer the volume shooting approach rather than using his knowledge and skills to identify specific guys who can improve the team. 1.) depends on who you listen to, because according to Dreger, the phones were hot for Kane weeks before the deadline, and several offers had been bandied about. But according to Dreger, people only started calling Jason as the deadline was minutes away, and there was no serious interest before, and only one serious offer made during the entire season - the one we took. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 Can we please stay on topic, it's like an ADHD epidemic in here. TRADE RUMORS AND SPECULATION. Not a JBGM thread. Open a new one and debate his competency there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: 1.) depends on who you listen to, because according to Dreger, the phones were hot for Kane weeks before the deadline, and several offers had been bandied about. But according to Dreger, people only started calling Jason as the deadline was minutes away, and there was no serious interest before, and only one serious offer made during the entire season - the one we took. This seems like playing both sides of the coin. Were the phones hot for Kane for weeks or was there no serious interest? How can it be both? Edited June 20, 2019 by Drunkard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Drunkard said: This seems like playing both sides of the coin. Were the phones hot for Kane for weeks or was there no serious interest? How can it be both? I'm picking on Dreger because it drives me nuts that he claimed both last season and no one called him out on it 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, jsb said: Can we please stay on topic, it's like an ADHD epidemic in here. TRADE RUMORS AND SPECULATION. Not a JBGM thread. Open a new one and debate his competency there. Speculation: Botterill is bad at player evaluation so he has to rely on volume in order to try to find good players. Rumor: Botterill will trade our good players because he needs more darts to throw because the darts he's already traded for are duds. Edited June 20, 2019 by Drunkard 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 27 minutes ago, jsb said: Can we please stay on topic, it's like an ADHD epidemic in here. TRADE RUMORS AND SPECULATION. Not a JBGM thread. Open a new one and debate his competency there. It's pretty hard to speculate about trades while ignoring the GM who would make them. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor of Philhousley Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 26 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: 1.) depends on who you listen to, because according to Dreger, the phones were hot for Kane weeks before the deadline, and several offers had been bandied about. But according to Dreger, people only started calling Jason as the deadline was minutes away, and there was no serious interest before, and only one serious offer made during the entire season - the one we took. RF - May sound weird coming from a posting newb, but your reemergence has a similar impact on my Sabrespacing as an offer sheet to Marner. Welcome back ***wipes away tears*** 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hoss said: Where has it ever been reported Buffalo and Toronto were the only places he would waive for? I don’t believe him fully but he did say himself that he never vetoed a deal anywhere and indicated he never would have. I’m 90% sure it was reported at the time that it was Buffalo, Toronto and Pittsburgh and only Buffalo had the cap space. It’s hard to believe that Carolina would’ve made that trade if they had any options. Contrary to board opinion, most GM’s aren’t idiots. They may differ on what’s valuable but they aren’t in the habit of rejecting good trade offers in order to accept almost nothing. Edited June 20, 2019 by tom webster 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, tom webster said: I’m 90% sure it was reported at the time that it was Buffalo, Toronto and Pittsburgh and only Buffalo had the cap space. It’s hard to believe that Carolina would’ve made that trade if they had any options. Contrary to board opinion, most GM’s aren’t idiots. They may differ on what’s valuable but they aren’t in the habit of rejecting good trade offers in order to accept almost nothing. It's almost as if you don't think bad GMs exist. The differing on what's valuable is the key...plenty of GMs over or under value the wrong things which leads them to accept lesser trades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 11 minutes ago, tom webster said: I’m 90% sure it was reported at the time that it was Buffalo, Toronto and Pittsburgh and only Buffalo had the cap space. It’s hard to believe that Carolina would’ve made that trade if they had any options. Contrary to board opinion, most GM’s aren’t idiots. They may differ on what’s valuable but they aren’t in the habit of rejecting good trade offers in order to accept almost nothing. Couldn’t they have just hung onto skinner for the year? Imagine the team Carolina would of had with him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 Just now, Derrico said: Couldn’t they have just hung onto skinner for the year? Imagine the team Carolina would of had with him? Not even Carolina knew they were about to go on that run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted June 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, tom webster said: I’m 90% sure it was reported at the time that it was Buffalo, Toronto and Pittsburgh and only Buffalo had the cap space. It’s hard to believe that Carolina would’ve made that trade if they had any options. Contrary to board opinion, most GM’s aren’t idiots. They may differ on what’s valuable but they aren’t in the habit of rejecting good trade offers in order to accept almost nothing. This is correct LeBrun was that one who reported it I believe. Sometimes GMs luck into acquiring good players for minimal returns see Jeff Gorton with Jacob Trouba and Adam Fox. On the flip side some GMs are offered Tyler Seguin for Thomas Vanek, but are afraid to move a player in the division. Good GMs take advantage of these situations. Bad ones don’t and sometimes make the ROR Trade. Which type Jason Botterill will evolve into over his Sabres Tenure remains to be seen. Edited June 20, 2019 by Brawndo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Hoss said: Not even Carolina knew they were about to go on that run. True. My point is he still had a year left and they didn’t have to trade him. Heck they may have got more waiting until last years trade deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, Hoss said: Not even Carolina knew they were about to go on that run. Probably not to that extent, but they have a fantastic analytics department, they predicted they would have more success than most thought they would Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 17 minutes ago, tom webster said: I’m 90% sure it was reported at the time that it was Buffalo, Toronto and Pittsburgh and only Buffalo had the cap space. It’s hard to believe that Carolina would’ve made that trade if they had any options. Contrary to board opinion, most GM’s aren’t idiots. They may differ on what’s valuable but they aren’t in the habit of rejecting good trade offers in order to accept almost nothing. Carolina is probably one of those teams that does have an idiot GM though, given his history. I'm not completely sure if he had that job though when the deal was made. That organization is a bit of a circus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted June 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 When Peters left and it was evident Justin Williams was going to be the leadership in the room he wanted out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, Derrico said: True. My point is he still had a year left and they didn’t have to trade him. Heck they may have got more waiting until last years trade deadline. Skinner had a full NMC and we were the only team he was willing to waive it for who could fit him under the cap. Given how crappy we've been this decade, I doubt we would have been buyers at the deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 Just now, Drunkard said: Skinner had a full NMC and we were the only team he was willing to waive it for who could fit him under the cap. Given how crappy we've been this decade, I doubt we would have been buyers at the deadline. Your telling me Skinner wouldn’t have waived it for a playoff run? I could see no thanks to a full season. Then he’s uprooting his family etc. A two month playoff run in a contract year probably would have changed his mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, Brawndo said: When Peters left and it was evident Justin Williams was going to be the leadership in the room he wanted out. You’ve alluded to a Williams/Skinner clash a couple times now. What is the story there? PM me if it’s not something you want on the main board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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