Non Sabres Deadline Trades/Rumors

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, Derrico said:

So much this.  I know it’s the off-season optimism but botts is sitting with a real opportunity here.  This team has the core that should be good enough to compete.  I really like Risto but if Botts can pull off a big move I’ll be suckered back into thinking playoffs.  Have to get this trade right.  The difference between this trade and ROR is he doesn’t at all have to trade Risto.  Sounds like there is a lot of demand out there (for a 24 year old right hand d I’m not too surprised).  Maximize this return if you do want to love on.  Risto cap hit isn’t bad either.

 

2 hours ago, TrueBlueGED said:

You can't tell me to get over ROR and then go saying things like this! You're killing me! He didn't have to trade O'Reilly. Maybe he felt he did, but that's not the same thing as a pending UFA or RFA refusing to sign. He could have misjudged the need. 

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled programming. 

This potential Ristolainen deal is where Botterill can make up some real ground on the talent deficit that the ROR trade created. And how people perceive him as a GM. I didn't want to hear that Skinner was brought in to offset the O'Reilly loss - could have had both. But If Botterill gets unbalanced value back in this deal for the positive, it takes a bite out of the negative value from the ROR trade. 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Thorny

[Derrico]

20 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Some Stats for Montour and Risto over the last 20:Games they played together as Sabres. 

Montour 20 GP 3 Goals 7 Assists including 1 PPG, 2 PPA

Risto 20 GP 0 Goals 5 Assists, 0 PPG, 4 PPA 

Montour’s Metrics we’re also the best of any Sabres Defenseman over those 20 Games as well 

I'm telling you the hype is criminally under-rated around here for this trade.  Montour is a very good player and I can't wait to see what he does for a full season here (especially if he's paired with Dahlin).

[klos1963]

1 hour ago, Scottysabres said:

So far we have the following rumors:

Buffalo kicked the tires on Zucker

Vancouver spoke to/speaking to Buffalo about D man, don't know if it's Bogo or Risto

Is this it? Is this what we've heard so far in the past week or so?

Just read Pierre LeBrun saying with Trouba off the market now that a few teams are now looking at Risto.  Tampa looking for a top 4 RHD

[JohnRobertEichel]

56 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

I think if you exclude the ROR trade then there is no doubt that Bottsie has done a very good job.  He has won, IMO, the 2 other big trades. 

He signed Skinner to a market value contact (oh, wait, that's right you are not a Skinner fan, if I recall correctly).  Drafting we shall see.

 

I think if you exclude that one incident at Chernobyl on 4/26/86, Anatoly Dyatlov had also done a very good job.

 

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, Derrico said:

I'm telling you the hype is criminally under-rated around here for this trade.  Montour is a very good player and I can't wait to see what he does for a full season here (especially if he's paired with Dahlin).

Depending on what happens with Myers, that "best trade ever!" according to Jets fans may end up just Montour for Roslovic ?

[Derrico]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Depending on what happens with Myers, that "best trade ever!" according to Jets fans may end up just Montour for Roslovic ?

Wow.  That is crazy.

[dudacek]

5 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Depending on what happens with Myers, that "best trade ever!" according to Jets fans may end up just Montour for Roslovic ?

Yet Jets fans are still chortling over how they worked us on that one

And you forgot we still have Bogo. (I know it was deliberate ?)

[JohnRobertEichel]

5 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

Just read Pierre LeBrun saying with Trouba off the market now that a few teams are now looking at Risto.  Tampa looking for a top 4 RHD

Can I assume there's a plan at RHD after a potential Risto trade? At least temporarily, our depth chart at this position would become: Montour, Bogosian, Nelson, Borgen.

You would assume there's a plan, but you never know with this garbage GM of ours...

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Yet Jets fans are still chortling over how they worked us on that one

And you forgot we still have Bogo. (I know it was deliberate ?)

They are. And I don't know why. They stopped chanting it in the arena after Kane left though. You'd think even the most ardent Jets fan could see now that it ended up much smaller than seemed at first. 

The bolded: believe it or not, this time it wasn't. I just have him sort of mentally written off since I don't think he'll be re-signed. 

Nice guy, shook his hand at a club here once. 

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Thorny

[WildCard]

5 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

So outside of the Vancouver info, have there been any other reports today of Sabres involved in anything?

When there is trust me it'll be here 

[Curt]

We have been talking about JT Miller.  Miller has about the same career stats and is about the same age as Kevin Hayes.  Hayes just signed for 7 years, $7.14M AAV.  Miller is signed for 4 more years at $5.25M AAV.

[French Collection]

6 minutes ago, Curtisp5286 said:

We have been talking about JT Miller.  Miller has about the same career stats and is about the same age as Kevin Hayes.  Hayes just signed for 7 years, $7.14M AAV.  Miller is signed for 4 more years at $5.25M AAV.

Miller's value just went up.

[Curt]

4 minutes ago, French Collection said:

Miller's value just went up.

Then Risto’s skyrocketed when Karlsson signed, haha.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Last off-season, beside the ROR and Skinner deals, the biggest deals were for Eric Karlsson and the Calg/Car deal of Hanifin and Lindholm for Ferland, Hamilton and Fox.  If we move Risto I feel we'll see a Hamilton/Hanifin type hockey deal.  

So who needs Risto and can give us what we need offensively?  What about Edm?

Risto, Erod, and Nylander for RNH, Puljujarvi and Adam Larsson.  Part of this deal is cost cutting in Edm.  It's also an exchange of our failed prospect for theirs.  They could use a more dynamic D and we could use a more stay at home type.  I admit beside the cap ramifications the deal looks a little one-sided toward us as stated, but I think the 3 principals are there in Risto plus for RNH and Larsson, now we just to equalize the deal.  

Also what about Minn?

Zucker and Spurgeon for Risto and ????  Tucker has 4 years left at 5.5 and Spurgeon 1 at 5.2.  

Edited June 19, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[Richard Noggin]

7 hours ago, Derrico said:

I'm really looking forward to seeing what Botts and RK can accomplish together.  I have faith they are both smart men.  Hopefully they continue surrounding themselves with others who can aide in player evaluation.  I'm sure it's not just Botts opinion when discussing trades.  I'm sure he's speaking constantly with his pro and amateur scouting staff.

Not exactly an NHL scoop here, but I can say with first-hand certainty that J Botts, immediately upon taking over, has encouraged his scouting team to provide candid assessments of the Sabres roster, top to bottom. They self-scout critically and honestly. I've heard players assessed comprehensively and holistically, from objective stats/traits to highly subjective anecdotes and judgments. The various scouts do the majority of the talking. GMJB might be in charge, but he's an excellent listener and facilitator (strong organizational culture). 

I can only assume they do the same diligence with other teams' players and prospects (just in more private/secure settings).

I've been privy to (as maybe TBD members here have read from me, or maybe not...I don't post often) internal and off-the-public-record discussions, scouting meetings, etc. J Botts is not operating unilaterally. He's working collaboratively with his team. The Pegulas are big on horizontal distribution, it seems: empowering, delegating, constantly collaborating across reporting structures and pay scales. Building consensus while valuing critical feedback. Maybe a smart guy with executive experience like Ralph Krueger fits really well into such an organization?

I don't know. It's late. I work too much. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

So, who else thinks that @Richard Noggin is our 'deep throat'?

[Scottysabres]

5 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

Not exactly an NHL scoop here, but I can say with first-hand certainty that J Botts, immediately upon taking over, has encouraged his scouting team to provide candid assessments of the Sabres roster, top to bottom. They self-scout critically and honestly. I've heard players assessed comprehensively and holistically, from objective stats/traits to highly subjective anecdotes and judgments. The various scouts do the majority of the talking. GMJB might be in charge, but he's an excellent listener and facilitator (strong organizational culture). 

I can only assume they do the same diligence with other teams' players and prospects (just in more private/secure settings).

I've been privy to (as maybe TBD members here have read from me, or maybe not...I don't post often) internal and off-the-public-record discussions, scouting meetings, etc. J Botts is not operating unilaterally. He's working collaboratively with his team. The Pegulas are big on horizontal distribution, it seems: empowering, delegating, constantly collaborating across reporting structures and pay scales. Building consensus while valuing critical feedback. Maybe a smart guy with executive experience like Ralph Krueger fits really well into such an organization?

I don't know. It's late. I work too much. 

Interesting. Thank you.

[inkman]

58 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

So, who else thinks that @Richard Noggin is our 'deep throat'?

He's certainly a dick head 

[Drunkard]

15 hours ago, TrueBlueGED said:

I don't think it's clear at all that this is his plan. It certainly might be, but I don't think it's so obviously the case that we can rule out him being a rookie GM out of his depth and making a series of independent moves. After all, let's not forget about a quarter of that cap space was acquired by accident when Berglund walked away. 

This times 1,000. It should also be noted that in order to get that cap space he lost 2 top 6 players in O'Reilly and Kane and only added one top 6 player in Skinner who now makes more than either of them. Given that a worse #2 center in Hayes just signed a long term deal north of $7 million there's a good chance that whomever we get to replace O'Reilly will take up the bulk of that space.

[dudacek]

16 minutes ago, Drunkard said:

This times 1,000. It should also be noted that in order to get that cap space he lost 2 top 6 players in O'Reilly and Kane and only added one top 6 player in Skinner who now makes more than either of them. Given that a worse #2 center in Hayes just signed a long term deal north of $7 million there's a good chance that whomever we get to replace O'Reilly will take up the bulk of that space.

What if he trades that extra 1st for JT Miller or someone similar?

Is it possible that we’re better off with Skinner Miller Montour than O’Reilly Kane?

[darksabre]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

What if he trades that extra 1st for JT Miller or someone similar?

Is it possible that we’re better off with Skinner Miller Montour than O’Reilly Kane?

I think this is distinctly possible.

I like Miller but I think people here are going to hate how streaky he is. He'll go a few games without doing anything and then have a game where he puts up a handful of points.

That said, people will also like his size and he's pretty good on faceoffs. Better than Jack at the very least.

I think he'd be the perfect pickup for this team.

[Drunkard]

14 minutes ago, dudacek said:

What if he trades that extra 1st for JT Miller or someone similar?

Is it possible that we’re better off with Skinner Miller Montour than O’Reilly Kane?

I guess it's possible, but I personally doubt it. I think O'Reilly is the best player listed of the 5 so the fact that we upgraded from Kane to Skinner doesn't make up for the downgrade from O'Reilly to Miller and at this point, we can't even count Miller. I'd like to add Miller for pick 31, especially because that means we don't have to move Ristolainen to get him.

[dudacek]

4 minutes ago, Drunkard said:

I guess it's possible, but I personally doubt it. I think O'Reilly is the best player listed of the 5 so the fact that we upgraded from Kane to Skinner doesn't make up for the downgrade from O'Reilly to Miller and at this point, we can't even count Miller. I'd like to add Miller for pick 31, especially because that means we don't have to move Ristolainen to get him.

Don’t think much of how Montour upgrades the D?

[Derrico]

33 minutes ago, dudacek said:

What if he trades that extra 1st for JT Miller or someone similar?

Is it possible that we’re better off with Skinner Miller Montour than O’Reilly Kane?

There are other small pieces but that is what botts big moves would boil down too.  I think I prefer these three.  But I also recognize I’m much higher on Montour than most.  He is a solid 2 or really good 3 on a good team.  We have Dahlin, we have Montour, we’re getting closer on D.  Another topic but that’s why I’m not in a huge rush to trade Risto.  I really feel Dahlin and Montour are ready for big minutes this year.  Risto either slotting second pair or atleast playing similar minutes to Montour and I think we will see a better Risto.  If they keep him and he has a better/break out season you can thank the Montour trade.  Risto is still only 24.  This is the first time we have had a legit top 4 rhd that I can think of.  Kind of want to see how that plays out.  Now there is an opportunity to play Risto situationally to his strengths instead of running him out there 28 min a night in all situations.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Derrico

[Radar]

2 minutes ago, Derrico said:

There are other small pieces but that is what botts big moves would boil down too.  I think I prefer these three.  But I also recognize I’m much higher on Montour than most.  He is a solid 2 or really good 3 on a good team.  We have Dahlin, we have Montour, we’re getting closer on D.  Another topic but that’s why I’m not in a huge rush to trade Risto.  I really feel Dahlin and Montour are ready for big minutes this year.  Risto either slotting second pair or atleast playing similar minutes to Montour and I think we will see a better Risto.  If they keep him and he has a better/break out season you can thank the Montour trade.  Risto is still only 24.  This is the first time we have had a legit top 4 rhd that I can think of.  Kind of want to see how that plays out.

Amen to this. I'm not in any rush to trade Risto. It creates a hole to fill a hole. The deal better be good and coupled with a  plan to fill the hole created.