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Torpedo Forecheck

Sheldon Keefe

Sheldon Keefe and his past  

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  1. 1. Does stuff from his past, not new, but recently discovered by some, preclude you from supporting his hire as Sabres HC?



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1 hour ago, wingnut said:

Brad Richards witnessed firsthand some of Keefe's previous behavior on ice in the OHL, was a teammate of his later in the NHL, and I'm sure still has mutual friends and/or acquaintances. That's an opinion I would be curious to hear.

Brad Richards played in the Q for Rimouski.

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4 hours ago, nfreeman said:

 

I agree with the poster upthread who said it was too long to copy entirely into a post here.

Here is the link to the reddit post:  https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/4vyd9y/wayback_wednesday_brampton_boys_the_four_horsemen/

And here is the only unsavory detail about Frost I saw:

 

 

This is yet another article that really sheds zero light on what exactly Keefe allegedly did with Frost.

Read up on Danton. Frost is a monster.

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1 hour ago, French Collection said:

Brad Richards played in the Q for Rimouski.

My mistake, played against Keefe/Barrie for the Memorial Cup.

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1 hour ago, Eleven said:

Read up on Danton. Frost is a monster.

No doubt.  My point is simply that despite all the vague allusions in this thread, there is zero information in any of the articles posted (other than a reference in the anonymous reddit post to rumors about parties with young girls) about Keefe’s involvement with Frost’s misdeeds.  

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This is my guy. I've been pounding the table for him since before Housley.

It's a damn shame that Botterill probably doesn't want him because of his lack of NHL coaching experience.

I'll say though, some team is going to get a hell of a coach someday soon...I really wish it was us.

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1 hour ago, OhMyDahlin said:

This is my guy. I've been pounding the table for him since before Housley.

It's a damn shame that Botterill probably doesn't want him because of his lack of NHL coaching experience.

I'll say though, some team is going to get a hell of a coach someday soon...I really wish it was us.

Rumours out of Toronto is that Buffalo is definately on his list, like I said before the playoffs need to end.

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22 hours ago, nfreeman said:

 

I agree with the poster upthread who said it was too long to copy entirely into a post here.

Here is the link to the reddit post:  https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/4vyd9y/wayback_wednesday_brampton_boys_the_four_horsemen/

And here is the only unsavory detail about Frost I saw:

 

 

This is yet another article that really sheds zero light on what exactly Keefe allegedly did with Frost.

https://torontosun.com/2015/06/22/marlies-coach-sheldon-keefe-can-finally-look-forward/wcm/57c2f9e2-cc14-4ccc-a18f-cd94629212b9/amp

There really is much . Links to court case are available . It should be noted Frost was found not guilty . Keefe and Danton both testified for him. Judge found that prosecution did a inept job in the case with the three vidence they had available to them and simply non of the people involved could’ve believed a muddy result  that Frost was not found guilty. It should noted that Keefe parents did find pictures , he and parents estranged from each other . Keefe says pics were misinterpreted . Keefe does saynow much of his hockey past he ashamed of and a married man who since coaching in Pembrooke . Sault St. Marie and Marlies has excelled  through in coaching becoming his own person . There are many articles of the time detailing court case in lurid detail the happenings in the cottage in the end boys involved said of their own volition with no Frost influence. Thus he found not guilty. 

Its not arguable that there was baggage . What is how accountable was Keefe, he says he takes account for it and has grown become wiser and moved on. 

For Sabres fans perhaps the issue is are you comfortable with said baggage which he admits . It’s clear he has become a most successful Coach. Where does one set the bar . Is being a very good coach enough. Can a person move on from a ugly past. General manager Dubas has put his job on the line twice for him. Have no agenda but there is much to reflect on 

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My question on it would be was he really the best option? So I wouldn't stop being a fan but I'd rather it wasn't him. His baggage is not just dismissed as "baggage" to me. Saying it's all good now cause he got married and has kids doesn't work for me. 

I can't see JBot hiring him though. If he's a huge success here I guess he's a redemption story, but if he doesn't turn us around or any new "baggage" comes up or surfaces it'd be career ending for JBot and he'd be tainted by the choice. Unless JBot is desperate and ready to throw the dice I just can't see it. 

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I believe that individuals can learn from their mistakes and become better people, especially mistakes made in their youth.  I believe in giving those people second chances.  There are two questions in my mind.

1) With everything that Botterill knows about Keefe, does he believe that he has in fact learned and changed?

2) Even if he has, does Pegula want to deal with the possible implications of hiring someone with that baggage?

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12 minutes ago, Curtisp5286 said:

I believe that individuals can learn from their mistakes and become better people, especially mistakes made in their youth.  I believe in giving those people second chances.  There are two questions in my mind.

1) With everything that Botterill knows about Keefe, does he believe that he has in fact learned and changed?

2) Even if he has, does Pegula want to deal with the possible implications of hiring someone with that baggage?

One current question today not of past is that Keefes brother who has become Coach of year in Europe does still have a hockey and business relationship with Frost. Sheldon Keefe has said while he of course has relationship with his brother has had none for many years with Frost. If you believe that true so be it. 

Just my opinion but think Sabre’s hiring Keefe a moot point and not happening as he very possibly will be elevated to Leaf Assistant Coach this season 

Edited by millbank

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3 minutes ago, millbank said:

One current question today not of past is that Keefes brother who has become Coach of year in Europe does still have a hockey and business relationship with Frost. Sheldon Keefe has said while he of course has relationship with his brother has had none for many years with Frost. If you believe that true so be it. 

Yeah, I’m sure it’s a very intricate, personal situation.  I would leave it to Botterill, who is a lot more plugged in to the hockey community than any of us, to figure out what the situation is and if he is comfortable with the man that Sheldon Keefe is today.

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15 minutes ago, Curtisp5286 said:

Yeah, I’m sure it’s a very intricate, personal situation.  I would leave it to Botterill, who is a lot more plugged in to the hockey community than any of us, to figure out what the situation is and if he is comfortable with the man that Sheldon Keefe is today.

One comment . I think we all have met people be it alcohol, drugs, thefts dishonesty and more who did have a dark past who today are amongst the finest people we could meet. Have acknowledged past , gained victory over it . I think Dubas is one who is confident this the case 

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17 hours ago, nfreeman said:

No doubt.  My point is simply that despite all the vague allusions in this thread, there is zero information in any of the articles posted (other than a reference in the anonymous reddit post to rumors about parties with young girls) about Keefe’s involvement with Frost’s misdeeds.  

I read the reddit more carefully for you, which I’ll post below:

 

That offseason, Frost invited the Brampton boys to a cottage in Frontenac Provincial Park, north of Kingston. Mike Jefferson brought along his little brother Tom, himself an aspiring bantam hockey player. Two weeks later, he came back to his family's home in Brampton. His family noted he wasn't the same after that trip.

The next summer, the Jeffersons received an envelope in the mail. There were photos of Tom inside the envelope. One photo shows Frost pointing a rifle at Tom's head. Another shows him naked, duct-taped to the back of a bunk bed.

Tom was allegedly told by Frost he'd need to rip himself out of the tape within a time limit, or else more tape would be applied. Tom told his family everything, including when Frost fired the rifle at him while being forced to climb a tree naked, and when he was forced to dance for Frost naked for hours on end. Tom also alleged that Frost made him have sex with an older girl, with Frost pointing the rifle at his chest the whole time.

The Jeffersons call the cops. Frost is questioned, along with the other occupants of the cabin. Each says the photos were part of an initiation, and that initiation was Tom Jefferson's own idea. They tell police he's lying about what happened.

The investigation is dropped by Ontario Provincial Police. No charges are filed. To this day, Tom Jefferson maintains that something terrible happened in that cabin.

 

What I would like answered is what role Keefe played in this incident and why he had kept quiet all these years. Or, what is he hiding. 

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47 minutes ago, millbank said:

Frost was charged and Keefe and Danton did testify on his behalf . 

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/2092660-david-frost-acquitted-of-sexual-exploitation-charges/

I doubt Kim would appreciate the subject of this article, nor the details within it. Interesting that we’ll never know exactly what role Keefe played here, as he was a minor and the law forbids releasing this info, but the women involved here got their reputations destroyed. 

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2 minutes ago, kas23 said:

I doubt Kim would appreciate the subject of this article, nor the details within it. Interesting that we’ll never know exactly what role Keefe played here, as he was a minor and the law forbids releasing this info, but the women involved here got their reputations destroyed. 

My apologies did not wish to be rude or crude in any way. And will not extend the conversation farther other than to say anyone wishing to find the information can. Keefe and Danton did testify on Coaches behalf . Keefe did visit Danton regularly while in Jail andFrost called Danton regularly to get his loyalty . There are transcripts of phone conversations Frost demanding his loyalty and Love for him.  It is part of Keefes baggage 

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7 minutes ago, millbank said:

My apologies did not wish to be rude or crude in any way. And will not extend the conversation farther other than to say anyone wishing to find the information can. Keefe and Danton did testify on Coaches behalf . Keefe did visit Danton regularly while in Jail andFrost called Danton regularly to get his loyalty . There are transcripts of phone conversations Frost demanding his loyalty and Love for him.  It is part of Keefes baggage 

You did nothing wrong.  People were lamenting a lack of info on the Frost connection and you provided some.  Thanks.

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I think some of you are just coming upon this story for the first time. Many of us, especially in the hockey world, knew about it and have come to grips with it. It occured a long time ago and the guy has done what you hope of someone with his past. That is don't become another drag on society, we have enough of them. He got his ***** together over a decade ago and some people are able to move on. Many in the hockey world who are just concerned with his ability to coach will have no problem hiring him. Others not so much, they will always be skeptical. I mean look around at media, politicians lawyers etc. in our current climate. Some will never forgive and will in fact use it against him forever. Not my way, you don't throw away people in the garbage who've had serious issues. I for one side on the side of if he is a different better person and has attempted redemption and made signifanct progress- I'm good, I'm behind you . Provided of course they are trying to do right.

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1 minute ago, Taro T said:

You did nothing wrong.  People were lamenting a lack of info on the Frost connection and you provided some.  Thanks.

Sincerely hope not.  Truth is there is much information on the subject some of it vile. 

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3 minutes ago, Torpedo Forecheck said:

I think some of you are just coming upon this story for the first time. Many of us, especially in the hockey world, knew about it and have come to grips with it. It occured a long time ago and the guy has done what you hope of someone with his past. That is don't become another drag on society, we have enough of them. He got his ***** together over a decade ago and some people are able to move on. Many in the hockey world who are just concerned with his ability to coach will have no problem hiring him. Others not so much, they will always be skeptical. I mean look around at media, politicians lawyers etc. in our current climate. Some will never forgive and will in fact use it against him forever. Not my way, you don't throw away people in the garbage who've had serious issues. I for one side on the side of if he is a different better person and has attempted redemption and made signifanct progress- I'm good, I'm behind you . Provided of course they are trying to do right.

Agree with this 

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The last of line of this tweet appears to make this a moot point at least for Keefe coming to Buffalo 

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1 minute ago, Torpedo Forecheck said:

I respect the approach you have taken to this.

Have no agenda . Remember all of this well. Given I do think ultimately he will be Leaf Coach it all does give me pause . Kyle Dubas has given him a second chance aware of the past and has put his reputation on it. Be clear  though there was a past and one can decide for selves if the Current man palatable. Some do come out of darkness to become fine people   . 

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29 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

The last of line of this tweet appears to make this a moot point at least for Keefe coming to Buffalo 

Could be 100% correct. However, I've heard others with a different take on this.

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