Weave Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 20 minutes ago, SDS said: People from Buffalo don’t understand this. They pay rock bottom prices for their teams and squeal like hell when the price goes up a few bucks. Lol. There’s no realization of just how little they pay. https://www.statista.com/statistics/193595/average-ticket-price-in-the-nfl-by-team/ This sounds like a claim of entitlement or something when it is nothing more than supply vs. demand in the 50th largest metro area with a record of depressed income. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamboni Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, SDS said: People from Buffalo don’t understand this. They pay rock bottom prices for their teams and squeal like hell when the price goes up a few bucks. Lol. There’s no realization of just how little they pay. https://www.statista.com/statistics/193595/average-ticket-price-in-the-nfl-by-team/ Was there ever a study done about the average regional income for households and the cost of professional league ticket prices in all pro league markets? “The Census ACS 1-year survey reports that the median household income for the Buffalo-Niagara Falls New York metro area was $55,448 in 2017, the latest figures available. Buffalo median household income is $9,446 lower than the median New York household income and $4,888 less than the US median household income.” With NYS and local taxes, That $4,888 is even more pronounced. So the amount of disposable income to purchase season tickets for a pro team like the Sabres and Bills I would guess, is more of a burden and investment than other lower taxed states on an individual/family. It’s also why I bet 75-80% of STH share the cost with multiple people, or sells them online to help recoup the cost as best they can. Edited April 13, 2019 by Zamboni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilbert11 Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, msw2112 said: As I recall it, when the Marlins and Rockies joined MLB, the Buffalo franchise was a finalist and was very close to getting the team. The main factor in Buffalo not getting the team was the size of the market, both from a population and corporate HQ standpoint. I don't think the Rich family backed out at that time. I believe that they LATER said that it was probably best that they didn't get the team due to the financial picture. I'm a little fuzzy on the whole Expos situation, but I was no longer living in Buffalo at the time. Perhaps it was THEN that Rich declined due to the finances? I'd guess that other markets would have been in play at the time and I am sure that MLB preferred Washington, D.C. (where the franchise ended up - the Nationals). The truth is that the Buffalo market is probably not large enough to support a MLB franchise. 80+ home games is a lot of tickets to sell and without a really deep pockets owner or a huge local TV contract, it is hard to field a competitive team, which means it's that much harder to sell tickets. There are some exceptions, as occasionally Milwaukee, Minnesota or Pittsburgh will be good (Milwaukee right now), but 1) those markets are larger than Buffalo; and 2) those teams are not able to sustain that level over a long period of time. As I recall, around that time, I was listening to a local radio sports talk show that was discussing the possibility of a MLB team (I believe there was a guest but don’t remember who). A caller asked that if Buffalo got a major league team, would the ticket prices be the same as for the Bisons. The host was discouraged by that question and commented that he didn’t think Buffalo could support an MLB team as they can’t expect to pay minor league prices. I think that may have been part of the financial picture. Edited April 13, 2019 by gilbert11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 8 hours ago, Weave said: This sounds like a claim of entitlement or something when it is nothing more than supply vs. demand in the 50th largest metro area with a record of depressed income. As was mentioned up thread, Buffalo is only a city with major pro sports because we got our teams long ago. We'd never get them now. If we lost either team they would never be replaced. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 20 hours ago, WildCard said: I can't handle that. The only team I have now that is good is the Yankees, don't take that away from me They're good? now? I don't even recognize their lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 14 hours ago, Kruppstahl said: Why doesn't Buffalo have a MLB team? Money, or lack thereof. WNY is in no way large enough to support a MLB team, especially in the 21st century. Buffalo wouldn't have any major league sports teams if they had to acquire them in the modern era. Not true. They would have NHL Hockey for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#freejame Posted April 14, 2019 Report Share Posted April 14, 2019 12 minutes ago, Let's Go B-Lo said: Would they? Quebec City doesn't. If they were putting in another team today, and the Sabres didn't exist, it's more likely that there'd be a second team in Toronto. I would think Hamilton, given the history and desire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#freejame Posted April 14, 2019 Report Share Posted April 14, 2019 15 minutes ago, Let's Go B-Lo said: Atlanta would get a 3rd team before Hamilton got one, or Houston. If Balsillie was more likable there would already be a team in Hamilton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted April 14, 2019 Report Share Posted April 14, 2019 3 hours ago, Let's Go B-Lo said: Would they? Quebec City doesn't. If they were putting in another team today, and the Sabres didn't exist, it's more likely that there'd be a second team in Toronto. Quebec City has no $$$. Otherwise they would have a team. The NHL model is expand, not put teams in a place where you already dominate the market. The NHL themselves kept the team in Buffalo when Rigas got in trouble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 14, 2019 Report Share Posted April 14, 2019 12 hours ago, Pimlach said: Quebec City has no $$$. Otherwise they would have a team. The NHL model is expand, not put teams in a place where you already dominate the market. The NHL themselves kept the team in Buffalo when Rigas got in trouble That's one nice thing you can say about Gary Bettman. He loathes franchise moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted April 14, 2019 Report Share Posted April 14, 2019 (edited) On 4/13/2019 at 7:12 AM, PromoTheRobot said: As was mentioned up thread, Buffalo is only a city with major pro sports because we got our teams long ago. We'd never get them now. If we lost either team they would never be replaced. Yep. Fort Worth (900,000 and rising) by itself (no Dallas, Arlington, Irving, Plano) has nearly the population of the Buffalo-Niagara Metro area (1,100,000 and falling), and we'll never get a major league team. We do have the Cowboys and Rangers in the same county in Arlington, and the Mavs and Stars are less than an hour away in Dallas. But by itself I can't imagine Fort Worth supporting a major league sports franchise. (Fort Worth is in kind of a weird situation with respect to its metro area. It's not quite a bedroom community suburb of Dallas, but it's not an independent metro area either. The city is the 15th or 16th largest city in the country though.... but no major sports teams of its own.) Edited April 14, 2019 by Doohickie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted April 14, 2019 Report Share Posted April 14, 2019 16 hours ago, #freejame said: I would think Hamilton, given the history and desire. Hamilton falls within Toronto's geographic protection area. They'll never get a team. 1 hour ago, Doohickie said: Yep. Fort Worth (900,000 and rising) by itself (no Dallas, Arlington, Irving, Plano) has nearly the population of the Buffalo-Niagara Metro area (1,100,000 and falling), and we'll never get a major league team. We do have the Cowboys and Rangers in the same county in Arlington, and the Mavs and Stars are less than an hour away in Dallas. But by itself I can't imagine Fort Worth supporting a major league sports franchise. (Fort Worth is in kind of a weird situation with respect to its metro area. It's not quite a bedroom community suburb of Dallas, but it's not an independent metro area either. The city is the 15th or 16th largest city in the country though.... but no major sports teams of its own.) I would imagine Fort Worth has the same situation with Dallas that Hamiltion has with Tomroto. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted April 14, 2019 Report Share Posted April 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Doohickie said: Yep. Fort Worth (900,000 and rising) by itself (no Dallas, Arlington, Irving, Plano) has nearly the population of the Buffalo-Niagara Metro area (1,100,000 and falling), and we'll never get a major league team. We do have the Cowboys and Rangers in the same county in Arlington, and the Mavs and Stars are less than an hour away in Dallas. But by itself I can't imagine Fort Worth supporting a major league sports franchise. (Fort Worth is in kind of a weird situation with respect to its metro area. It's not quite a bedroom community suburb of Dallas, but it's not an independent metro area either. The city is the 15th or 16th largest city in the country though.... but no major sports teams of its own.) But they do have a rodeo and I recall a place called Billy Bobs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calti Posted April 15, 2019 Report Share Posted April 15, 2019 Buffalos metro area pop has increased the past 10 yrs. sliiiiiiiightly..... Rochesters metro area is a fantasy made up by someone-----cripe they include half the damn state--incl livestock. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 15, 2019 Report Share Posted April 15, 2019 2 hours ago, calti said: Buffalos metro area pop has increased the past 10 yrs. sliiiiiiiightly..... Rochesters metro area is a fantasy made up by someone-----cripe they include half the damn state--incl livestock. Remember when Rochester was getting an MLS franchise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted April 15, 2019 Report Share Posted April 15, 2019 17 hours ago, Pimlach said: But they do have a rodeo and I recall a place called Billy Bobs They're building Dickies Arena (Dickies, the work wear maker, is based in Fort Worth) specifically for rodeo, with 14,000 capacity. It will be used a couple of weeks a year for the Stock Show and will be adaptable to concerts, hockey, basketball, etc. Fort Worth is a regional hub for the equine and ranch industries; it's the only place I've lived where people where cowboy hats and spurs as work wear. And yeah, there's Billy Bob's. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted April 15, 2019 Report Share Posted April 15, 2019 Buffalo proved to not be Rich enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never NEVER Give-up Posted April 15, 2019 Report Share Posted April 15, 2019 On 4/12/2019 at 4:15 PM, PromoTheRobot said: Did you know that MLB offered the Expos to the Rich family and they said no? Fact is WNY can't possibly support a third major franchise, much less one in a sport with no salary cap dominated by a handful of huge revenue teams. Never winning big and always losing your best players to the money teams would get old real fast. See "Pittsburgh". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted April 15, 2019 Report Share Posted April 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Never NEVER Give-up said: See "Pittsburgh". Welcome!! The Pirates have won the World Series, but not in 40 years, which was long before they started losing all their best players to money teams. So, I get your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted April 15, 2019 Report Share Posted April 15, 2019 If you want to go back even further look at the Failed Planned Dome Stadium in Lancaster, NY in the late 1960’s/early 70’s. It was going to be a dual use Stadium for the Bills and a Baseball Team. The Blue Jays were slated to be in Buffalo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calti Posted April 15, 2019 Report Share Posted April 15, 2019 19 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: Remember when Rochester was getting an MLS franchise? yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calti Posted April 15, 2019 Report Share Posted April 15, 2019 4 hours ago, New Scotland (NS) said: Welcome!! The Pirates have won the World Series, but not in 40 years, which was long before they started losing all their best players to money teams. So, I get your point. yep its tough for smaller market teams .only st louis comes to mind as a small market team that has had great success in the past 30 yrs in baseball. kc,balt,cleve,pitt,minn,milw,colorado,cincy,...all sketchy--short trips toward the top followed by mediocrity.altho id give cleveland decent marks for staying competitive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calti Posted April 15, 2019 Report Share Posted April 15, 2019 2 hours ago, Brawndo said: If you want to go back even further look at the Failed Planned Dome Stadium in Lancaster, NY in the late 1960’s/early 70’s. It was going to be a dual use Stadium for the Bills and a Baseball Team. The Blue Jays were slated to be in Buffalo i remember that fiasco...and knew a guy who worked on that supposed project.That mighta given little Buffalo FOUR major league teams.Crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#freejame Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 1 hour ago, calti said: yep its tough for smaller market teams .only st louis comes to mind as a small market team that has had great success in the past 30 yrs in baseball. kc,balt,cleve,pitt,minn,milw,colorado,cincy,...all sketchy--short trips toward the top followed by mediocrity.altho id give cleveland decent marks for staying competitive This is a bad take. KC won a WS and went back to back. Cleveland has been to multiple WS during that time and a great sellout steak. Milwaukee and Tampa Bay might be the best teams in baseball. Pittsburgh had a sustained run five years ago. There’s an ebb and flow to small market baseball organizations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 15 hours ago, #freejame said: This is a bad take. KC won a WS and went back to back. Cleveland has been to multiple WS during that time and a great sellout steak. Milwaukee and Tampa Bay might be the best teams in baseball. Pittsburgh had a sustained run five years ago. There’s an ebb and flow to small market baseball organizations. It's the poor man's/moneyball formula. Load up on cheap talent from the draft and round out your roster with lesser or relatively unknown guys with below market contracts then hope to catch lightning in a bottle once or twice over a period of a few years until your young studs reach free agency and teams with deep pockets like NY, Boston, and LA back up the brinks truck and lure away your talent with contracts big enough to practically buy some of the small teams. Once your primo talent is gone you rebuild, start the cycle over, and hope to catch lightning again in 7 or 8 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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