Updated Todd McLellan OUT of the Running Sabres HC Position

[nfreeman]

Interesting.  So if the Sabres are offering $25MM and LA is offering, say, $18MM — that’s a pretty big spread, and enlarged by the higher CA taxes and cost of living.  He has to know that there’s a pretty good chance that this is the last big contract of his life.  

The economically prudent move is to take the Sabres’ offer.  (Unless of course it results in divorce.)

[IKnowPhysics]

1 hour ago, WildCard said:

That is an insane contract to offer that guy. Jeez Botteril 

The Sabres just had a cap hit of $75M to finish fifth last.  $5M ain't ***** compared to that, compared to the big dollar operations costs of large market corporate front offices, or when considering there's no salary cap for non-players.  We're lucky enough to have deep pocket owners, and they would be wise to leverage that to meet the organization's goals.

Besides, if we start winning consistently, the owners will make that money back in franchise value and then some.

[WildCard]

Just now, IKnowPhysics said:

The Sabres just had a cap hit of $75M to finish fifth last.  $5M ain't ***** compared to that, compared to the big dollar operations costs of large market corporate front offices, or when considering there's no salary cap for non-players.  We're lucky enough to have deep pocket owners, and they would be wise to leverage that to meet the organization's goals.

Besides, if we start winning consistently, the owners will make that money back in franchise value and then some.

I'm not saying $5M dollars kills the Pegulas or something

[Richard Noggin]

So who knows what's going on with this tonight? They were/are meeting, probably wrapped up within the last hour. Any juicy tidbits beyond the salary parameters?

[pi2000]

52 minutes ago, WildCard said:

They are less likely to terminate someone sooner if they're that heavily invested in him. So if he is bad, then we'll likely have him for longer

It makes the franchise look like we don't know what we're doing if we give yet another guy a 5 year deal and get rid of him in less than those 5 years. 

I'm perfectly aware I'm not Terry Pegula by the way 

Pegula is worth 4.5 billion.   25 million is 0.55% of his net worth.  

It's like $5500.00 if your net worth is 1 million.   If he gets two seasons our of him and has to eat the rest he won't give a ? about the money.

[WildCard]

1 minute ago, pi2000 said:

Pegula is worth 4.5 billion.   25 million is 0.55% of his net worth.  

It's like $5500.00 if your net worth is 1 million.   If he gets two seasons our of him and has to eat the rest he won't give a ? about the money.

Again I understand relative to his worth it's nothing. It is still $5M, and you don't become wealthy continuously making bad investments

Regardless of the money, just look at the term. 5 years is a significant term investment

[Zamboni]

1 minute ago, WildCard said:

I'm not saying $5M dollars kills the Pegulas or something

I’m glad you are saying that. That is why I took issue with you using the phrase “tied to McClellan” if Pegula paid him 5 mil. for 5 years. 

No amount of salary for no amount of term ties ANY coach to the Sabres. Pegulas ability to walk away from millions of dollars of his money owed to a few ex-coaches now proves to me $5 mil. Isn’t and won’t “kill” him. Also known as ... not tied to a coach

Public perception or the potential perception for future coaches considering Buffalo for a coaching gig is a diffferent topic entirely. 

[Zamboni]

1 minute ago, WildCard said:

Again I understand relative to his worth it's nothing. It is still $5M, and you don't become wealthy continuously making bad investments

Regardless of the money, just look at the term. 5 years is a significant term investment

And again ... he can be fired one day, one week, one month. One year, or 5 years after he signs. So technically the only true investment unrecoverable is money. Not the 5 years of the term, since it can end any time Pegula/GM wants. 

[WildCard]

1 hour ago, WildCard said:

They are less likely to terminate someone sooner if they're that heavily invested in him. So if he is bad, then we'll likely have him for longer

It makes the franchise look like we don't know what we're doing if we give yet another guy a 5 year deal and get rid of him in less than those 5 years. 

I'm perfectly aware I'm not Terry Pegula by the way 

 

53 minutes ago, WildCard said:

I think he'd have to be Housley bad to get fired in 2 years. And I don't think he will be. I think it's more likely he goes 3 years .500 or so with one playoff berth, just like he did in Edmonton. Management/owners say that's good enough and he still has term left, so we stick with good enough

I don't want good enough. I think it's entirely possible to go and get someone new who can take us further.

But maybe McLellan is good and it works out. I hope so, but he's not my preferred choice obviously

 

35 minutes ago, WildCard said:

They hired Rex and Byslma to 5 year deals and fired them after two. Clearly they aren't afraid to throw money around, but that doesn't mean repeating that mistake is a good idea 

Repeatedly hiring and firing coaches is not a good look for a franchise IMO

I've laid out my position previously. 5 years is a heavy investment

2 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

And again ... he can be fired one day, one week, one month. One year, or 5 years after he signs. So technically the only true investment unrecoverable is money. Not the 5 years of the term, since it can end any time Pegula/GM wants. 

What is this with the black and white. I get anything can happen. I've said they are less likely to do any of the actions you've listed above given that investment though

[tom webster]

You all realize there is “offset” language in every coaching contract. The only way Pegula pays is if he is fired and doesn’t take another job.

That usually includes TV gigs like Rex Ryan’s deal. His contract with ESPN covered a substantial part of the money Buffalo owed him after firing. 

[Zamboni]

3 minutes ago, WildCard said:

 

 

I've laid out my position previously. 5 years is a heavy investment

What is this with the black and white. I get anything can happen. I've said they are less likely to do any of the actions you've listed above given that investment though

Yes money wise it is. Not time wise. Only the money is locked in and guaranteed.

[WildCard]

1 minute ago, Zamboni said:

Yes money wise it is. Not time wise. Only the money is locked in and guaranteed.

Sure. But 5 year contracts are given to coaches as a sign of faith. It says we are invested in you, and we will not cut you so soon if you struggle early. That is why they give them out

[Zamboni]

1 minute ago, tom webster said:

You all realize there is “offset” language in every coaching contract. The only way Pegula pays is if he is fired and doesn’t take another job.

That usually includes TV gigs like Rex Ryan’s deal. His contract with ESPN covered a substantial part of the money Buffalo owed him after firing. 

Fired is different than “relieved of his duties”

find me something we can sink our teeth into that says Pegula stopped paying Bylsma the moment he took the job as the assistant in Detroit. And I think he was a TV hockey talking head on NBC or something before that even.

 

[Tondas]

7 hours ago, Brawndo said:

I would love Keefe, but Kyle Dubas will most likely block the Sabres from interviewing him. 

JBOT:  "Kyle, you can either allow us to interview Keefe, or you can deal with our offer sheet for Marner.  Your choice."

[GASabresIUFAN]

Jbot do it or don't do it.  He is just two years from being fired anyway.

[dudacek]

9 hours ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Well, we had one of them, and he was terrible. Winning percentage in a vacuum just isn't a super persuasive argument for me. I don't hate the idea of hiring McLellan, but I'm also still not convinced he's a guy you break the bank for. I don't think his SJ teams underachieved as much as the popular narrative, but I also have yet to be convinced he's really added value anywhere or is on the level of the other top coaches in the division. The NHL may change the playoff format at some point, but until that happens, I want a coach who can match wits with Cooper, Julien, Quenneville, et al. I'm not confident McLellan is that guy. I'm confident he'd be better than Housley, but "better than Housley" isn't the standard I'm chasing.

I think I agree with every word of this. The bold is the key for me. Not many can.

When I look at our team, I think we might need two coaches: one leader to give us the discipline and structure and leadership this immature team needs, and make us competitive; then, once he finishes his course, a tactician to do the wits-matching required to put us over the top.

There may be an unemployed John Cooper out there and maybe we find him.

But if we don’t, McLellan probably has enough basic competence as any to do job one. 

Edited April 11, 2019 by dudacek

[tom webster]

1 hour ago, Zamboni said:

Fired is different than “relieved of his duties”

find me something we can sink our teeth into that says Pegula stopped paying Bylsma the moment he took the job as the assistant in Detroit. And I think he was a TV hockey talking head on NBC or something before that even.

 

Coaches are never really “fired.” It’s always legally “relieved of duties. “ 

Also, they don’t stop paying him. Their liability is reduced.

Where it could get interesting in TM’s case is depending on his deal with Edmonton, they could argue their liability should be decreased by Buffalo’s offer even if he accepts LA’s.

[steveoath]

3 hours ago, Tondas said:

JBOT:  "Kyle, you can either allow us to interview Keefe, or you can deal with our offer sheet for Marner.  Your choice."

I like your style! 

[kas23]

7 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Jbot do it or don't do it.  He is just two years from being fired anyway.

This is another aspect not being discussed. Do you think Jbot is prolonging his own job security by offering a prolonged deal? Indirectly, this may also give him a 5 year deal considering it’s unlikely he survives another coach firing. In reality, if Jbot is fires after 2 years, so will McL. 

[kas23]

10 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

If the report is accurate it necessarily means the agent is the source. And not only is Friedman being used, so are the Sabres.

I don’t think his agent would leak this information to the press. He wouldn’t have to. Behind closed doors, he’s allowed to share contract information with any team he wishes. He probably already faxed the Sabres contract to the Kings. 

[Pimlach]

8 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Interesting.  So if the Sabres are offering $25MM and LA is offering, say, $18MM — that’s a pretty big spread, and enlarged by the higher CA taxes and cost of living.  He has to know that there’s a pretty good chance that this is the last big contract of his life.  

The economically prudent move is to take the Sabres’ offer.  (Unless of course it results in divorce.)

Your pay is $4. m versus $5m per year? 

Do do you really care about “ cost of living” and state tax differences between NY and California?  

The decision will be based on where he wants to live and who he wants to work for.   The financials don’t matter at these levels. 

[Curt]

1 minute ago, Pimlach said:

Your pay is $4. m versus $5m per year? 

Do do you really care about “ cost of living” and state tax differences between NY and California?  

The decision will be based on where he wants to live and who he wants to work for.   The financials don’t matter at these levels. 

You really think that salary is not a major issue for NHL coaches when making decisions about taking a job?  I can't imagine that is true in the majority of cases.

[nfreeman]

17 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Your pay is $4. m versus $5m per year? 

Do do you really care about “ cost of living” and state tax differences between NY and California?  

The decision will be based on where he wants to live and who he wants to work for.   The financials don’t matter at these levels. 

I don’t agree at all.  

As I mentioned, this is fairly likely to be his last contract.  He has hopefully another 30-40 years to live, plus kids and grandchildren to think about.  Another $7MM on the contract, plus another, say, $1.5MM in taxes/cost of living, is a major factor.  

(And since we should be referring to after-tax dollars, it’s an even bigger factor.)

[GASabresIUFAN]

39 minutes ago, kas23 said:

This is another aspect not being discussed. Do you think Jbot is prolonging his own job security by offering a prolonged deal? Indirectly, this may also give him a 5 year deal considering it’s unlikely he survives another coach firing. In reality, if Jbot is fires after 2 years, so will McL. 

No Jbot isn't giving a 5 year deal to protect himself, he'll be fired regardless if the team doesn't improve substantially over the next two years.  The 5 year deal seems pretty standard.  That said you are correct that TM or whomever he hires will be let go if Jbot is fired.  It's very rare that the coach outlives the GM.

[Derrico]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

No Jbot isn't giving a 5 year deal to protect himself, he'll be fired regardless if the team doesn't improve substantially over the next two years.  The 5 year deal seems pretty standard.  That said you are correct that TM or whomever he hires will be let go if Jbot is fired.  It's very rare that the coach outlives the GM.

Agreed.  It’s also crazy if 5 year deals for coaches is the standard.  Sure it happens but what percentage of coaches make it a full five years.  I doubt it’s even 50/50.  Coaches should get 3 years max.  But as we’ve said, there’s no salary cap on coaches and it’s pegula bucks so here we are.