Victor Olofsson - Time for his own Sabres thread

[WildCard]

Just now, utsvävande said:

amerks.com separates out PP points

you typoed, Smith is 56 in 57

I should have specified, I was comparing rookie seasons

[rakish]

What do you think about the Skinner Eichel Olofsson line, if you are Casey Mittlestadt?

[WildCard]

2 minutes ago, utsvävande said:

What do you think about the Skinner Eichel Olofsson line, if you are Casey Mittlestadt?

I get to play with Reinhart, which makes my game way easier.

[Ross Rhea]

As it sits right now I would not have Thompson in my top 6 maybe not my top 9, and he's definitely not a 4th line guy. Don't think it will change much starting training camp, I would try and trade him. Will be 22 a month into the season with over 100 gm played, trade him for something.

[Zamboni]

16 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Actually, a couple of things,

1) I’m 59

2) I’ve gotten where I am today by surrounding myself with people smarter then myself

3) some of the greatest achievements in my career where the results of thinking outside the box, questions the status quo.

4) I’m smart enough to know I may not be right. There is absolutely no way of knowing. The numbers show less then 50 players a year with AHL experience develop into top 6 forwards or top 4 defenseman.

5) I’m glad you insist on bringing me into the conversation.

6) Thanks Freeman for pointing out the obvious. 

1.  Your age has absolutely positively nothing to do with this conversation. But I’m glad you told me your age now we are all in lightened knowing how old you are.

2. I know you want to pat yourself on the back, but you are not thinking outside any kind of arbitrary made up box that you have created for yourself in regards to players  aren’t high draft picks, not needing the AHL or an equivalent  developmental league and needing it for developing their game.

 You are the one that originally made a grand statement, and overall generalized statement that the AHL isn’t really that needed for most players. That you questioned how useful or how important that league really is for players. 

 Time and time again, day after day, you fail to prove your point.  You make a comment about finding 100 players who are the top scorers in the NHL  not needing a developmental league to get better like AHL.

Step up, back up your claim, prove your point. Otherwise your claim has no validity. And you should just keep that point to yourself, or be challenged every time that gets spewed out of your mouth. Keep avoiding keep deflecting keep bringing up other points that have nothing to do with the original point. You seem to be very good at it.

 Do the homework. Unless you know you can’t back it up, never mind that is why you’re not doing the homework, because you can’t back up that claim.  I bet your reply to this will still not address your original point with facts and proof. 

I even made it easy for you I said I only want to see 25 players over the last decade who are not top 10 draftees,  Who over the course of their careers are top scorers in the NHL, who had little or no AHL or equivalent developmental league time.   They just came into the league and were incredible point Producers right away and continued to be throughout their career to this day. 

I guess Olofsson is wrong huh?  He doesn’t know any better? You calling him a liar?  The lengths you’ll go huh?

3.  I’m glad you’re modest enough  to call yourself smart enough. Thanks for letting us now. 

4.  I’m not the one that brought your name into the conversation, if you look back someone else brought your name up, and I replied to that post.

 I’m still waiting and waiting and waiting…  yawn

[nfreeman]

40 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Skinner on one side, Olofsson on the other. Reinhart gets to go control his own line, which he should have been doing all season anyways

Skinner cleans up garbage around the net anyways, or fires rebounds. Olofsson generates a lot of those, he even got an assist on one on Eichel's goal yesterday. I don't think Skinner would mind at all a guy who would create a ton of chaos around the slot/goal

Good to see ya sir!

 

5 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

1.  Your age has absolutely positively nothing to do with this conversation. But I’m glad you told me your age now we are all in lightened knowing how old you are.

2. I know you want to pat yourself on the back, but you are not thinking outside any kind of arbitrary made up box that you have created for yourself in regards to players  aren’t high draft picks, not needing the AHL or an equivalent  developmental league and needing it for developing their game.

 -snip-

 

This is pretty obnoxious.

[Zamboni]

16 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Good to see ya sir!

 

This is pretty obnoxious.

So is claiming that players don’t need a developmental league’s to get better. It’s absurd it’s obnoxious and it’s flat out wrong

Edited April 5, 2019 by Zamboni

[dudacek]

Olofsson on the first line with Jack to start makes sense to me. What also makes sense is bringing in a big body corner/netfront guy on the right side.

Skinner and Reinhart as the wingers on the second line, beside a legitimate 2nd line centre from outside the organization until Casey steps up.

Sheary and Okposo fighting off the kids for spots on line three. Those same kids can also push Olofsson.

Rodrigues as the 10th forward and a safety net for Mittelstadt.

[SDS]

21 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

So is claiming that players don’t need a developmental league’s to get better. It’s absurd it’s obnoxious and it’s flat out wrong

That's not what he said. He clearly stated over and over that there isn't proof the same players who make it out of the AHL wouldn't have become the same players if they were in the NHL the entire time. He also recognized that these players who aren't making NHL rosters need someplace to play. His ultimate point is that there is no inherent advantage of the AHL experience over the NHL experience, other than needing another league to go while the natural growth in the game takes place. If the AHL had some inherent goodness to it over the NHL, more top players would come from there.

[nfreeman]

27 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

So is claiming that players don’t need a developmental league’s to get better. It’s absurd it’s obnoxious and it’s flat out wrong 

Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion.  You can disagree, which is fine, but it's important, and required, that you communicate here in a respectful and non-obnoxious manner.

[tom webster]

For the record, someone else implied that I wasn’t “an old guy.”

 

[tom webster]

1 hour ago, Zamboni said:

1.  Your age has absolutely positively nothing to do with this conversation. But I’m glad you told me your age now we are all in lightened knowing how old you are.

2. I know you want to pat yourself on the back, but you are not thinking outside any kind of arbitrary made up box that you have created for yourself in regards to players  aren’t high draft picks, not needing the AHL or an equivalent  developmental league and needing it for developing their game.

 You are the one that originally made a grand statement, and overall generalized statement that the AHL isn’t really that needed for most players. That you questioned how useful or how important that league really is for players. 

 Time and time again, day after day, you fail to prove your point.  You make a comment about finding 100 players who are the top scorers in the NHL  not needing a developmental league to get better like AHL.

Step up, back up your claim, prove your point. Otherwise your claim has no validity. And you should just keep that point to yourself, or be challenged every time that gets spewed out of your mouth. Keep avoiding keep deflecting keep bringing up other points that have nothing to do with the original point. You seem to be very good at it.

 Do the homework. Unless you know you can’t back it up, never mind that is why you’re not doing the homework, because you can’t back up that claim.  I bet your reply to this will still not address your original point with facts and proof. 

I even made it easy for you I said I only want to see 25 players over the last decade who are not top 10 draftees,  Who over the course of their careers are top scorers in the NHL, who had little or no AHL or equivalent developmental league time.   They just came into the league and were incredible point Producers right away and continued to be throughout their career to this day. 

I guess Olofsson is wrong huh?  He doesn’t know any better? You calling him a liar?  The lengths you’ll go huh?

3.  I’m glad you’re modest enough  to call yourself smart enough. Thanks for letting us now. 

4.  I’m not the one that brought your name into the conversation, if you look back someone else brought your name up, and I replied to that post.

 I’m still waiting and waiting and waiting…  yawn

So you want me to find 25 guys who had little to no AHL experience and were not top ten guys who have become top scorers? Like Brayden Point?

[tom webster]

Or how about Johnny Goidreau?

Alec Debrindicat?

[Zamboni]

1 hour ago, SDS said:

That's not what he said. He clearly stated over and over that there isn't proof the same players who make it out of the AHL wouldn't have become the same players if they were in the NHL the entire time. He also recognized that these players who aren't making NHL rosters need someplace to play. His ultimate point is that there is no inherent advantage of the AHL experience over the NHL experience, other than needing another league to go while the natural growth in the game takes place. If the AHL had some inherent goodness to it over the NHL, more top players would come from there.

I stand corrected.i read his overall regard to the AHL wrong.

im glad he realizes that the AHL is a developmental league.

im glad he knows that players who aren’t (usually top 10 draftees) drafted high, aren’t good enough coming out of high school and college and NEED a league to help them develop into better players so they have a chance, a chance ...  to contribute to an NHL team. 

im glad he knows the NHL is not a league to develop. Most players need lower leagues to large degree where they can be effective players and actually stick on a NHL roster.

im glad he knows not every player develops past being a good AHLer. The talent just isn’t there to make the jump.

if that’s what he meant, then my apologies for misunderstanding him.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Zamboni

[Zamboni]

11 minutes ago, tom webster said:

So you want me to find 25 guys who had little to no AHL experience and were not top ten guys who have become top scorers? Like Brayden Point?

 

9 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Or how about Johnny Goidreau?

Alec Debrindicat?

22 to go. 

Remember you can use European pro leagues too since they develop players like the AHL is a developmental league.

oh, one off seasons isn’t really making the point either, right? I mean if they are top scorers in the NHL, they would be at the top of the list for multiple years.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Zamboni

[GASabresIUFAN]

i wonder guys like Pommers, Gourde, and Marchand would be without the AHL? 

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, utsvävande said:

What do you think about the Skinner Eichel Olofsson line, if you are Casey Mittlestadt?

 

2 hours ago, WildCard said:

I get to play with Reinhart, which makes my game way easier.

I really hope that Casey isn’t a top 6 forward next season unless he earns it. 

I think he’ll be happy to take on other team’s 3rd lines, because the matchups would likely favor him.

I can see a 3rd line next year of Sheary, Mitts and Okposo or Nylander.  That would be a fast high skill 3rd line that should be hard to play against is they work hard.  Reminds me some of Vanek Roy and Max.

[jad1]

7 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

I really hope that Casey isn’t a top 6 forward next season unless he earns it. 

I think he’ll be happy to take on other team’s 3rd lines, because the matchups would likely favor him.

I can see a 3rd line next year of Sheary, Mitts and Okposo or Nylander.  That would be a fast high skill 3rd line that should be hard to play against is they work hard.  Reminds me some of Vanek Roy and Max.

I agree with wanting a scoring 3rd line, like the the RAV line.

Okposo, Sheary, and Mitts aren't going to get you that. 

Olofsson and Nylander with ERod might be a better choice for the third line.

Casey and Tage are in limbo, both should start in Rochester next season.  Thompson should be trade bait and Mitts should be on a short leash.

Eichel, Skinnner, and Reinhart would give the Sabres a dominant first line.

Botterill needs to build the 2nd line almost from scratch.  Maybe Sheary stays there, but Botterill needs to find a couple of 20+ goal scorers at center or wing by trade or in FA.

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, jad1 said:

I agree with wanting a scoring 3rd line, like the the RAV line.

Okposo, Sheary, and Mitts aren't going to get you that. 

Olofsson and Nylander with ERod might be a better choice for the third line.

Casey and Tage are in limbo, both should start in Rochester next season.  Thompson should be trade bait and Mitts should be on a short leash.

Eichel, Skinnner, and Reinhart would give the Sabres a dominant first line.

Botterill needs to build the 2nd line almost from scratch.  Maybe Sheary stays there, but Botterill needs to find a couple of 20+ goal scorers at center or wing by trade or in FA.

 

I’m thinking 

line 1 - Skinner Eichel Olofsson

line 2 - Erod Miller Reinhart

line 3 - Sheary Mitts Nylander/Okposo

 

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, SDS said:

That's not what he said. He clearly stated over and over that there isn't proof the same players who make it out of the AHL wouldn't have become the same players if they were in the NHL the entire time. He also recognized that these players who aren't making NHL rosters need someplace to play. His ultimate point is that there is no inherent advantage of the AHL experience over the NHL experience, other than needing another league to go while the natural growth in the game takes place. If the AHL had some inherent goodness to it over the NHL, more top players would come from there.

It’s an interesting theory, and I suspect he’d be right if we were able to run a control group experiment. Casey and Tage might be proof the Sabres are in general agreement.

But the fact remains that growth curves are all over the board. In the real world there are large numbers of players for whom the jump from junior to the NHL is too much at age 20. Most coaches are unwilling or unable to play them They need a place to play and hone their craft until they are ready for the NHL.

Whether its the AHL itself that is the root of that development, or just time, is semantics.

[tom webster]

1 hour ago, Zamboni said:

 

22 to go. 

Remember you can use European pro leagues too since they develop players like the AHL is a developmental league.

oh, one off seasons isn’t really making the point either, right? I mean if they are top scorers in the NHL, they would be at the top of the list for multiple years.

The ever shifting criteria. That’s why I won’t waste the time. I thought of three guys off the top of my head. The league is changing. The AHL is going to be less relevant then it already is. 

Im done with this. I’ve already acknowledged it can’t be determined what impacts a player’s development.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, jad1 said:

 

Casey and Tage are in limbo, both should start in Rochester next season.  Thompson should be trade bait and Mitts should be on a short leash.

 

Tage and Casey are only the same in that they both appeared over their heads at times this year.

But Tage is a 2nd year pro who put up replacement level numbers and did not improve statistically from his rookie year, whose NHL career is anything but a sure thing.

Casey is a rookie who already put up third-line numbers (very similar to Rodrigues, who is five years older) and appears to be on a development path repeated many times over.

Ryan Johansen put up 21 points as a rookie at Casey’s age. Schiefle had 7 games and 1 NHL point at Casey’s age and didn’t play full-time in the NHL until 2 years later, when he got 34 points. Zibanejad 1 point in nine games at Casey’s age, just 20 a year later. Forsberg, 1 point in five games, then five in 13. Horvat, 25 points. Domi hadn’t played pro yet, Strome same thing.

Im not worried about Mittelstadt at all. He will be in the NHL next year and he will be a top six forward. The only question is how long it will take.

Edited April 5, 2019 by dudacek

[Scottysabres]

Good for Olofsson. Both he and Pilut are going to be good additions next season from our Sweden contingent.

Hopefully Nylander works out as well. But I really like Viktor's shot, he has a knack for blasting them home ?

[Zamboni]

59 minutes ago, tom webster said:

The ever shifting criteria. That’s why I won’t waste the time. I thought of three guys off the top of my head. The league is changing. The AHL is going to be less relevant then it already is. 

Im done with this. I’ve already acknowledged it can’t be determined what impacts a player’s development.

Yes I agree, let’s move on. Because the AHL and other lower developing leagues are VERY relevant and will continue to be.

agree to disagree. 

 

On to Olofsson ... I like his hustle. And determination in reading plays and being in positions to receive the pass and take shots. That really stood out to me last night.

[Doohickie]

2 hours ago, Zamboni said:

On to Olofsson ... I like his hustle. And determination in reading plays and being in positions to receive the pass and take shots. That really stood out to me last night.

He looks more like a player that's trying to do something than a player trying to not make a mistake.