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Trade Risto this summer/Corsi arguments

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16 hours ago, Brawndo said:

The only similarity they have are they both play defense in the NHL. 

Risto isn’t close to the same class of defenseman that Jones is unfortunately. 

 

They are also both right handed.

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On 4/19/2019 at 6:14 PM, Brawndo said:

The only similarity they have are they both play defense in the NHL. 

Risto isn’t close to the same class of defenseman that Jones is unfortunately. 

 

Let's look at the numbers...

 

Jones, 24 yrs old, 6 yrs in league, 468 games, 54 goals, 174 assists,  228 pts, -17 (+-), 148PIMs

Risto-  24 yrs old, 6 yrs in league, 424 games, 36 goals, 158 assists, 194 pts, -143 (+-), 209 PIMs

 

So Jones was the 3rd pick in 2013, and Risto was the 8th pick.  Risto only played half of his first year in NHL so that is why the 44 fewer games played.  

Statistically they are pretty even and Jones has better (+-) numbers but there is a big difference on the quality of teams that Jones has been on compared to Risto. What would Jones numbers be if he was on Buffalo the last six years?  

Yes, Jones still is the better overall defenseman, I'm just saying the return on a trade would be somewhat close.  

In order for Buffalo to get over the hump, I think they need to move on from him and bring back a top six forward.

If you can't get that in return then you keep him hoping the next coach can help improve the team and him.

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5 hours ago, sweetlou said:

Let's look at the numbers...

 

Jones, 24 yrs old, 6 yrs in league, 468 games, 54 goals, 174 assists,  228 pts, -17 (+-), 148PIMs

Risto-  24 yrs old, 6 yrs in league, 424 games, 36 goals, 158 assists, 194 pts, -143 (+-), 209 PIMs

 

So Jones was the 3rd pick in 2013, and Risto was the 8th pick.  Risto only played half of his first year in NHL so that is why the 44 fewer games played.  

Statistically they are pretty even and Jones has better (+-) numbers but there is a big difference on the quality of teams that Jones has been on compared to Risto. What would Jones numbers be if he was on Buffalo the last six years?  

Yes, Jones still is the better overall defenseman, I'm just saying the return on a trade would be somewhat close.  

In order for Buffalo to get over the hump, I think they need to move on from him and bring back a top six forward.

If you can't get that in return then you keep him hoping the next coach can help improve the team and him.

And Jones was the only one of the two that should have been in the NHL at all that year. 

Risto’s Hockey IQ or lack there of has been called into question many of times

And when we hear that certain players are uncoachable on the Sabres, guess whose name is always the first mentioned. 

Over 50% of his production up until this season came on the PP. 

A saavy GM will look at the data below and see a huge difference with the exception of the power play.

Lou I hope you are right and some GM  overpays for him, I wouldn’t hold my breath though. 

 

 

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07C8042E-E56E-4F98-9DD3-7224B52970B8.png

6BE4152F-86C5-491D-A81F-8E8F8DDE46BF.png

C649A1AA-6F67-43C0-BD83-C84AEF7815A0.png

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I think moves can be made without trading Risto. If you've got defensive issues, you don't unload you top 2 D-man if you can pick up more help without trading him. 

Duchene? Keeping Risto, re-signing the Ballerina and adding Duchene would be a tremendous upgrade. 

Losing the Ballerina and not signing a highly touted center will kill the team next year. 

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7 minutes ago, JJFIVEOH said:

I think moves can be made without trading Risto. If you've got defensive issues, you don't unload you top 2 D-man if you can pick up more help without trading him. 

Duchene? Keeping Risto, re-signing the Ballerina and adding Duchene would be a tremendous upgrade. 

Losing the Ballerina and not signing a highly touted center will kill the team next year. 

If risto is your top 2 d, you're a trash team. 

He's clearly uncoachable or an idiot. Either way he's a #4 defender. 

We have defensive issues because of risto. As a Canes fan you should know the value of trading a "top" d. 

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They HAVE to bringin a 2C & a 2RW (& should Skinner walk, a 2LW as well).

Would prefer to see the 2C arrive via FA & the RW via trade.  Expecting a couple of deals based around moving Bogosian & Scandella among other pieces can net the RW.  If the 2C comes via trade, either Ristolainen or McCabe will be shipped out in that package.  Which is why I'd prefer them getting the 2C via FA if possible.

I'm OK w/ having a D corp of McCabe Montour, Dahlin Ristolainen, Pilut Borgen, with Nelson & Hunwick the spares.  Because when Dahlin's ready for top line duty, he & McCabe flip & those pairings should work.

Much less happy w/ that should Bogo fill Risto's role or, even worse, Scandella takes on the McCabe role.  Would like to see Risto used as a 2nd pairing D like he should be used (& preferably w/ McCabe as his partner) before shipping him out, though my expectation is that he'll be shipped out this summer.

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28 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

If risto is your top 2 d, you're a trash team. 

He's clearly uncoachable or an idiot. Either way he's a #4 defender. 

We have defensive issues because of risto. As a Canes fan you should know the value of trading a "top" d. 

I don't think Risto is a #4 D-Man. He has terrible +/- numbers because he plays 70 minutes a game against every team's top line. 

He may not be the all-star we wanted him to be, but he certainly is a top 2 or 3, and very cheap. 

He's not the D-man you build your team around, but he certainly isn't the problem right now. Bogo, Risto, Dahlin and McCabe and the top 4 going forward. Botterill needs to work on 5-8. That's where the problem is. 

 

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And stop calling me a Carolina fan. I'm just rooting for them because they are my new home team. I know very little about them. I know Sunrise and Buffalo like the back of my hand. Just stopped rooting for them for the time being because neither of those teams made the playoffs. Maybe by next year I'll have a better grasp on Raleigh, but not right now. 

I'm actually equidistant to Raleigh and Nashville. So I could be rooting for both. 

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1 minute ago, JJFIVEOH said:

And stop calling me a Carolina fan. I'm just rooting for them because they are my new home team. I know very little about them. I know Sunrise and Buffalo like the back of my hand. Just stopped rooting for them for the time being because neither of those teams made the playoffs. Maybe by next year I'll have a better grasp on Raleigh, but not right now. 

I'm actually equidistant to Raleigh and Nashville. So I could be rooting for both. 

Stop being one and you won't get called one. black think about it GIF by Identity

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I was basically equal between Nashville, Raleigh and tampa for years. You never witnessed me change my profile pic and actively cheer on any of them. 

Further, no Sabre fan under any circumstances should cheer for Carolina. So I'll continue to mock your bandwagon love affair with a team I will forever hate. 

Edited by LGR4GM

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57 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Stop being one and you won't get called one. black think about it GIF by Identity

Sorry you don't like my fanatic support. I've said several times the Sabres will alway be my #1 team. I'm sorry you're too ignorant to recognize the several times I mentioned it. I have a 1A team, a 1B team and a 1C team. My 1A and 1B teams didn't make the playoffs. 

Sorry you're too closed minded to think people might have other teams to root for. 

56 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I was basically equal between Nashville, Raleigh and tampa for years. You never witnessed me change my profile pic and actively cheer on any of them. 

Further, no Sabre fan under any circumstances should cheer for Carolina. So I'll continue to mock your bandwagon love affair with a team I will forever hate. 

Again, sorry you're too closed minded to accept that others might root for other teams when the Sabres are a laughing stock and hold the longest playoff drought in the entire league. 

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1 hour ago, JJFIVEOH said:

I don't think Risto is a #4 D-Man. He has terrible +/- numbers because he plays 70 minutes a game against every team's top line. 

He may not be the all-star we wanted him to be, but he certainly is a top 2 or 3, and very cheap. 

He's not the D-man you build your team around, but he certainly isn't the problem right now. Bogo, Risto, Dahlin and McCabe and the top 4 going forward. Botterill needs to work on 5-8. That's where the problem is. 

 

If this is your Top 4 this team is screwed. Dahlin is the only one that should be in the Top 4. Montour, Pilut and Borgen would be much better choices amongst the defenseman the Sabres have. There seems to be a disconnect on the board on what type of defenseman the Sabres want. Some want Risto and Bogo who will chase the puck all around the defensive zone hitting everyone, while others want Pilut and Montour who will retrieve the puck and facilitate a zone exit ASAP. I fall into the later category.

 

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2 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

If this is your Top 4 this team is screwed. Dahlin is the only one that should be in the Top 4. Montour, Pilut and Borgen would be much better choices amongst the defenseman the Sabres have. There seems to be a disconnect on the board on what type of defenseman the Sabres want. Some want Risto and Bogo who will chase the puck all around the defensive zone hitting everyone, while others want Pilut and Montour who will retrieve the puck and facilitate a zone exit ASAP. I fall into the later category.

 

Fair points. I just don't see Pilut as proven yet. Any team would take McCabe, Risto and Bogo in a heartbeat. Of course they'd also take Dahlin..... but there is no way in hell Buffalo gives him up. 

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I love how "playing against top players" is simultaneously being used as an excuse for Risto's bad numbers and a reason he's a top-pair Dman we simply have to keep. If Risto really was a #2, playing against top competition wouldn't cause his numbers to be trash--he'd be able to handle those minutes. And his ice time was down 2 minutes per game this season. And? Numbers still trash. 

Look, I defended Risto for a long time with some of these same arguments. But at some point it's just time to accept he is who he is: he'll get you some points, especially on the PP, but he's allergic to the puck at even strength and blows more defensive assignments than Eichel. 

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3 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

I love how "playing against top players" is simultaneously being used as an excuse for Risto's bad numbers and a reason he's a top-pair Dman we simply have to keep. If Risto really was a #2, playing against top competition wouldn't cause his numbers to be trash--he'd be able to handle those minutes. And his ice time was down 2 minutes per game this season. And? Numbers still trash. 

Look, I defended Risto for a long time with some of these same arguments. But at some point it's just time to accept he is who he is: he'll get you some points, especially on the PP, but he's allergic to the puck at even strength and blows more defensive assignments than Eichel. 

The reason for the argument is that he's been placed in a top pairing role by the last 3 or 4 head coaches despite his flaws, because we have nobody else who can handle the role.

I would think the best way to improve the defense would be replacing the guys who can't surpass him on the depth chart and looking for a RHD who can actually push him down the depth chart to the second pairing, rather than jettisoning him without a replacement on the roster. 

Some people think that guy is Montour, but I haven't been impressed with his defensive capabilities so far. Dahlin will likely get there soon, but he plays the other side. 

We saw what moving out O'Reilly without an adequate replacement did to our center depth. I'd rather them not double down on that mistake by trading Ristolainen.

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Montour is better than Risto.

The drop between Risto and the next rhd is a hell of a lot less than ROR to Mitts

Are you joking? Dahlin is already better than Risto. Defensively, offensively, and any other vely.

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2 hours ago, JJFIVEOH said:

Sorry you don't like my fanatic support. I've said several times the Sabres will alway be my #1 team. I'm sorry you're too ignorant to recognize the several times I mentioned it. I have a 1A team, a 1B team and a 1C team. My 1A and 1B teams didn't make the playoffs. 

Sorry you're too closed minded to think people might have other teams to root for. 

Again, sorry you're too closed minded to accept that others might root for other teams when the Sabres are a laughing stock and hold the longest playoff drought in the entire league. 

No I think you're a bandwagon fan. 

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Just now, LGR4GM said:

No I think you're a bandwagon fan. 

I've made several comments about my commitment to being a Sabres fan. Apparently you ignored them all. 

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I'm not ignorant of anything. You're a fair weather fan that likes the bandwagon.  Enjoy the ride but your liking of Carolina makes you not Sabres fan. Sabres fans don't like Carolina. So enjoy your bandwagon. 

Just now, JJFIVEOH said:

I've made several comments about my commitment to being a Sabres fan. Apparently you ignored them all. 

Yea because they are garbage. No sabre fan who lived through 06 is gonna cheer for Carolina. 

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10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Montour is better than Risto.

The drop between Risto and the next rhd is a hell of a lot less than ROR to Mitts

Are you joking? Dahlin is already better than Risto. Defensively, offensively, and any other vely.

Montour is not better than Risto. His +/- is obviously better, but Risto plays 70 minutes against every team's best players. 

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Just now, JJFIVEOH said:

Montour is not better than Risto. His +/- is obviously better, but Risto plays 70 minutes against every team's best players. 

No, brandon montour is better. Go look at the advanced metrics. 

Also what a lazy argument. "Risto plays against great players and sucks so he's better than a guy playing against good players who doesn't suck"

Show me proof he played against the best. Then show me what happens when he doesn't. Until then, it's just a lazy argument. 

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1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

I'm not ignorant of anything. You're a fair weather fan that likes the bandwagon.  Enjoy the ride but your liking of Carolina makes you not Sabres fan. Sabres fans don't like Carolina. So enjoy your bandwagon. 

Yea because they are garbage. No sabre fan who lived through 06 is gonna cheer for Carolina. 

They're in the playoffs, the Panthers and Sabres aren't. 

I'm sorry I live here and you don't so I root for the home team. Stop being a dick and stop scrutinizing me. For the 25th time, I'll say it again. The Sabres will always be my team, the Panthers will be my 1B team. I'm supporting my local team because my 1A and 1B teams are playing golf. 

If that's not good enough for you...... I'm sorry. At this point I don't care what you think. 

Just now, LGR4GM said:

No, brandon montour is better. Go look at the advanced metrics. 

Also what a lazy argument. "Risto plays against great players and sucks so he's better than a guy playing against good players who doesn't suck"

Show me proof he played against the best. Then show me what happens when he doesn't. Until then, it's just a lazy argument. 

Might be time to put you on ignore. You're starting to piss me off. 

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Just now, JJFIVEOH said:

They're in the playoffs, the Panthers and Sabres aren't. 

I'm sorry I live here and you don't so I root for the home team. Stop being a dick and stop scrutinizing me. For the 25th time, I'll say it again. The Sabres will always be my team, the Panthers will be my 1B team. I'm supporting my local team because my 1A and 1B teams are playing golf. 

If that's not good enough for you...... I'm sorry. At this point I don't care what you think. 

Might be time to put you on ignore. You're starting to piss me off. 

Good, you're a bandwagon Canes fan who can't prove Risto wouldn't still be crap against mediocre v good players. You're not backing up anything you say. Put me on ignore... because... cold blooded mic drop GIF

 

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Just now, LGR4GM said:

Good, you're a bandwagon Canes fan who can't prove Risto wouldn't still be crap against mediocre v good players. You're not backing up anything you say. Put me on ignore... because... cold blooded mic drop GIF

 

I will always be a Sabres fan, you piece of *****. If you can't take my word for it, you're more of a closed minded ***** than I thought you were. 

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Just now, JJFIVEOH said:

I will always be a Sabres fan, you piece of *****. If you can't take my word for it, you're more of a closed minded ***** than I thought you were. 

Thanks!

Prove Risto isn't a piece of sh#t. 

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