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nfreeman

Should we root for the Sabres to lose out?

Do you support a mini-tank?  

75 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you want the Sabres to lose as many more games as possible to improve their draft position?

    • Yes
      36
    • No
      39
  2. 2. Regardless of what you find yourself rooting for when you're being honest with yourself, do you think you SHOULD want the Sabres to lose in order to improve their draft position?

    • Yes
      21
    • No
      54
  3. 3. Did you support tanking for Eichel?

    • Yes
      53
    • No
      22


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13 minutes ago, Drunkard said:

How much of an evaluation period does this guy need? Last season was supposedly 100% about evaluating the organization from top to bottom for the entire season and what did we get? Another highly disappointing season this year. I suppose he needs a few more weeks to figure out that Sobotka should be ashamed of even cashing his paycheck and Pominville should retire. If that's the case this guy is seriously slow on the uptake. Does he need the last dozen games to figure out Skinner, McCabe, and Rodriguez deserve raises and the rest of the guys coming up for new contracts at the end of the year should count themselves lucky just to get an offer.  

He turned Rochester around, but most of the players responsible won't ever be of any help to Buffalo. If we're lucky maybe one of the Pegula's will realize we need an expert to come in so they can demote FXGMJB to being the GM for Rochester at best.

I was talking about call ups from Rochester.

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6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I was talking about call ups from Rochester.

Fair enough. Personally, I wanted call ups earlier on, but at this point I'd rather keep the handful of guys down there who even have a chance of ever making it to Buffalo to stay far away from this shitshow. Botterill should be wary of them getting any loser stench on them.

Edited by Drunkard

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13 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Honestly I don't really care. I'd like to be entertained from here to the end but I'm not likely to get that either. We will lose a lot of the remaining games regardless of what we do or don't do so no conscious effort to lose is necessary but we won't draft 1 or 2 unless we miracle win the lottery so none of it matters. A decent player should be available where we draft. Let's hope we hit right and get the better one this time.

You mention a few relevant factors related to the remainder of the season: entertainment value and draft position.

But there is another factor at play: losing out in such an ugly fashion that Phil get fired.  I do not think we are at a point where Phil will be fired at season's end, so more losing, in ugly fashion, could be the difference in getting Phil fired.

It could be the difference between Botterill wanting to retain Phil and Pegula endorsing that, or Pegula ordering that Phil is terminated.

So in that regard, there is a lot on the line here (potentially) and it's another facet of these remaining games to consider.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Kruppstahl said:

You mention a few relevant factors related to the remainder of the season: entertainment value and draft position.

But there is another factor at play: losing out in such an ugly fashion that Phil get fired.  I do not think we are at a point where Phil will be fired at season's end, so more losing, in ugly fashion, could be the difference in getting Phil fired.

It could be the difference between Botterill wanting to retain Phil and Pegula endorsing that, or Pegula ordering that Phil is terminated.

So in that regard, there is a lot on the line here (potentially) and it's another facet of these remaining games to consider.

 

 

I'm not behind those closed doors so I can't say but relationships between them and lines of communication and philosophies all play into the equation. If the players like Phil and him and JBot are still in agreement, then I doubt there will be any change unless we suck next year and then JBot has to fire him or be fired himself like Hextall was in Philly when he stood by his coach.  At this stage, I really think they still believe they are on the right path and have a different timeline then the fans. 

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At the trade deadline in the season of ‘Tank for McDavid or Eichel’ I thought it got ridiculous when Murray kept trading down on goalies. A goalie would play well for a couple games, like Halak, and he was then traded for a worse goalie.  So, I didn’t like that part of it but liked the result of Eichel.

This season is already in the tank so I would hate to see meaningless wins ruin chances at a better draft pick. Carter Hutton, I believe has shown he’s not good enough to be a starting goalie so I would play Ullmark as much as possible to further evaluate him as he hasn’t shown enough either.

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After three shutouts in a row, there is nothing left to do but tank the rest of the season. All confidence is gone at this point - I don't think going on a late season win streak would make any difference in team morale. I also don't think it's possible for this group to pull it off.

A better draft pick would certainly be nice, but there is also the issue with the head coach. It has come to pass that Phil Housley doesn't have the answers, and it would be great if they could just move on from him with no ambiguity. 

Edited by Skibum

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I don’t know if anyone actually looked at the standings and broke it down in here but chances are the highest this team can possibly get in the lottery is fifth. The lowest is probably 12/13. They’re currently at 8.

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On 3/14/2019 at 12:35 AM, dudacek said:

@nfreeman

As far as the trades go, I was strictly talking about the trades he made this off-season and season. And I wasn’t trying to suggest Botterill is trading away futures, just refuting the idea that he isn’t interested in making trades that help the team now. The fourth trade being ROR (where, even then, he did acquire two players with this year in mind.)

As for the other part, I’m not taking a defeatist attitude at all. It will get better and Botterill deserves time to make it happen.

Doesnt change the fact that we’ve seen exactly four players show expected growth this year - Eichel, Reinhart, Dahlin and Rodrigues - and not one of Botterill’s trade and free agent acquisitions have exceeded expectations. Few have even met them.

 

Skinner didn't exceed expectations?  Pilut?  

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37 minutes ago, Hoss said:

I don’t know if anyone actually looked at the standings and broke it down in here but chances are the highest this team can possibly get in the lottery is fifth. The lowest is probably 12/13. They’re currently at 8.

That’s if we don’t pick 1st, 2nd, or 3rd, correct?

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16 hours ago, gilbert11 said:

At the trade deadline in the season of ‘Tank for McDavid or Eichel’ I thought it got ridiculous when Murray kept trading down on goalies. A goalie would play well for a couple games, like Halak, and he was then traded for a worse goalie.  So, I didn’t like that part of it but liked the result of Eichel.

This season is already in the tank so I would hate to see meaningless wins ruin chances at a better draft pick. Carter Hutton, I believe has shown he’s not good enough to be a starting goalie so I would play Ullmark as much as possible to further evaluate him as he hasn’t shown enough either.

Halak never played a game for us and basically refused to show up to this shitshow if I remember correctly. That's why Murray send him packing. We probably didn't even want him in the first place but St. Louis needed to include him in the deal for cap and roster purposes in order to make room for Miller.

Either way, that was the season before we drafted Reinhart, not Eichel.

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5 hours ago, Skibum said:

After three shutouts in a row, there is nothing left to do but tank the rest of the season. All confidence is gone at this point - I don't think going on a late season win streak would make any difference in team morale. I also don't think it's possible for this group to pull it off.

A better draft pick would certainly be nice, but there is also the issue with the head coach. It has come to pass that Phil Housley doesn't have the answers, and it would be great if they could just move on from him with no ambiguity. 

If you remove Eichel, Reinhart, and Skinner, this team has 1 forward who has more than 30 points at this point in the season!  

ONE!  More than 30 points!  And that is Sheary sitting with 31 points, barely over the threshold.

There is just nothing here beyond that first line, and what is here is not motivated by its head coach or consistently put in its best position to succeed by said head coach.

The coach needs to go, the GM needs to go, and 80% of the team needs to go.

 

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The GM definitely does not need to go. he said he was going to build from Rochester up and it's exactly what is happening. 

The ROR trade looks bad in hindsight but at the time it looked like a decent trade.  still could turn out ok if he gets a good draft pick this year, TT improves and they use the money they saved from paying ROR on a decent 2C this summer 

We all know the 3 things that killed this team 

1) lack of secondary scoring

2) Coaching - line deployment 

3) Goaltending 

No doubt 1 & 2 get improved for next season. I'm still a little nervous about 3 being better as we will see the same combo again next year. 

And yes we should root for the Sabres to lose out  or do as badly as needed for them to change me in 6th last.  That will give them basically a 1 in 4 chance to get into the top 3   Even at 6 or 7, they will get a highly skilled forward that this team sorely needs 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, SwampD said:

That’s if we don’t pick 1st, 2nd, or 3rd, correct?

Correct. I’m talking going into the lottery. We can go up or down depending on those results.

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3 hours ago, Hoss said:

I don’t know if anyone actually looked at the standings and broke it down in here but chances are the highest this team can possibly get in the lottery is fifth. The lowest is probably 12/13. They’re currently at 8.

Whoever wrote the OP set all of this out in a beautifully cogent fashion.

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9 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Whoever wrote the OP set all of this out in a beautifully cogent fashion.

I only read headlines.

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3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Skinner didn't exceed expectations?  Pilut?  

Skinner did, although that is fading fast, innit?

Pilut was the top defenceman in Sweden last year. Some pencilled him in with the big club. Some thought he'd need time in the AHL.

He played 25 games and got 6 points. I'd say he met expectations.

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Yes, they should lose out...but I doubt it will improve their position that much to make a difference.

No, I should not want them to lose out at this point.

I rooted for the tank, but not for Eichel...I rooted for McDavid and was devastated when we didn't get him.

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Tanking, while necessary and I supported it, is over.  Tanking rots the confidence of the team.  This team needs to build confidence to win.  We should strive to be winning from now on.

Additionally, the reward for tanking is not as great as the cost for another year of poor confidence, the cost of another lost season for Eichel, Reinhart, Risto, Dahlin, Skinner, season ticket holders, etc.  The reward is especially not as good now with the new lottery odds, where even if you finish last, you have only an 18.5% chance of picking 1st and more than a 50% chance of picking 4th overall.

We currently have the highest odds to pick 8-9ish.  If were to win out the last 12 games, we'd still only pick 16th-ish.  Winning does not bring a high draft price to pay.

Edited by IKnowPhysics
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4 hours ago, IKnowPhysics said:

Tanking, while necessary and I supported it, is over.  Tanking rots the confidence of the team.  This team needs to build confidence to win.  We should strive to be winning from now on.

Additionally, the reward for tanking is not as great as the cost for another year of poor confidence, the cost of another lost season for Eichel, Reinhart, Risto, Dahlin, Skinner, season ticket holders, etc.  The reward is especially not as good now with the new lottery odds, where even if you finish last, you have only an 18.5% chance of picking 1st and more than a 50% chance of picking 4th overall.

We currently have the highest odds to pick 8-9ish.  If were to win out the last 12 games, we'd still only pick 16th-ish.  Winning does not bring a high draft price to pay.

I’d rather another elite player like Eichel and Dahlin than the confidence gained in 10 meaningless games 

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14 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

I’d rather another elite player like Eichel and Dahlin than the confidence gained in 10 meaningless games 

There is no such player this year and I'd rather the confidence.

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Pretty confident that Jack Hughes or Kakko would be a way bigger addition than any confidence gained by winning a few meaningless games. 

Wonder what Eichel would prefer, a couple of more wins or a team-mate that can add some secondary scoring next season? 

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49 minutes ago, Eleven said:

There is no such player this year and I'd rather the confidence.

There is no player (where we will be picking) that has been identified as having that much potential at the moment. That doesn’t mean they aren’t there. 

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