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SDS

Casey Nelson tells press he was behind play and didn’t see the head hit

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49 minutes ago, SDS said:

Curious if you looked at attachment two I included in the original post. It literally shows both Z and another skater in front of Nelson (and it would have been worse a fraction of a second earlier, since Nelson was even more behind both of them.

It's odd that there is actual tangible evidence he was screened and you would prefer to think there is a mystery angle that shows something contrary. I do appreciate you at least addressing my original point though.

The still photo at the bottom of your OP?  I do not think that remotely constitutes evidence that Nelson couldn't see the hit.

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2 hours ago, SDS said:

Curious if you looked at attachment two I included in the original post. It literally shows both Z and another skater in front of Nelson (and it would have been worse a fraction of a second earlier, since Nelson was even more behind both of them.

It's odd that there is actual tangible evidence he was screened and you would prefer to think there is a mystery angle that shows something contrary. I do appreciate you at least addressing my original point though.

The photo makes it even clearer that Nelson saw it.  The play was not static, things are in motion, he is not screened 100% of the time, But he could have been partially screened for a brief moment   

Nelson knows where the puck is, it’s with Eichel.   Nelson can see. He knows how is there.  Nelson also knows he has to look at where the puck is, even if he turns, peels off or whatever, he knows what’s happening.  Nelson can also hear.  The sound of the whistle, the sound of the boards, the sound of the crowd where audible to everyone.  Watching it in TV the sounds were more powerful than what we could see from the first camera angle.   Nelson can deduce and reason - as he is skating into the play with Eichel on his ass and helmetless, seeing Zadarov standing there, all while listening to the crowd wail.  

Quite honestly there is no case that Nelson did not know or see what happened.  

I actually have liked his game this year. Hope this does not result in ending his season or time with the team.  He is healthy scratched tonight so a message is sent I guess. 

Edited by Pimlach

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1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Yes.

Like this.

 

I specifically chose this example because the response is from smaller guys and the late hit was on Lucic. This is a few years back but they are the same now, and the fans love it and they get respect like it or not.

I am pleased Nelson is benched. It is the absolute minimum acceptable move to send the message that that sort of response is no longer acceptable on the team. It's going to take time, but the idea has to be established and riveted into place that teams simply cannot take liberties on our stars and get away with it. It's a start. Personally, I'd waive him. 

 

We have talked many times about the identity, the winning culture, the heart of a team.

You showed a team that has had all of these as part of their culture for as long as I can remember. Even Boston's not so talented teams still had resolve. Bringing in a player or two is part of the issue with Buffalo, removing the problems are just as big.

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If you watched Toronto v Tampa the other night, Tampa came out hitting everything with a leaf logo, slowed them down, made their passing off target. Got a couple weird goals and that was the game.  Super intense but sent Toronto a message.  Gotta have both skill and toughness.  Tavares was only guy who showed he could handle it in the first. Marner and Matthews looked lost.

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30 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

If you watched Toronto v Tampa the other night, Tampa came out hitting everything with a leaf logo, slowed them down, made their passing off target. Got a couple weird goals and that was the game.  Super intense but sent Toronto a message.  Gotta have both skill and toughness.  Tavares was only guy who showed he could handle it in the first. Marner and Matthews looked lost.

Bingo

As for us fans at home, what we saw was Nelson being the first guy there that could've addressed the situation and all he did was a slow drive by. From the angle on TV we don't know what Nelson saw exactly, but him having played the sport his whole life he should have basic hockey instincts to know what happened. And also, the Sabres have plenty of asst coaches and other personnel throughout the building that can see everything. If Phil didn't see it, someone did and I'm sure they talked about Casey's response, hence the benching which is totally justified.

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E21B5432-22BA-4FB1-8710-AB3DF6FB5CF0.png

To say it isn’t plausible that Nelson perhaps didn’t get a clear look of what happened, particularly when the egregious behavior was with the far left arm, is just not credible.

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58 minutes ago, SDS said:

E21B5432-22BA-4FB1-8710-AB3DF6FB5CF0.png

To say it isn’t plausible that Nelson perhaps didn’t get a clear look of what happened, particularly when the egregious behavior was with the far left arm, is just not credible.

Certainly plausible but far from definitive either way. 

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6 hours ago, SDS said:

E21B5432-22BA-4FB1-8710-AB3DF6FB5CF0.png

To say it isn’t plausible that Nelson perhaps didn’t get a clear look of what happened, particularly when the egregious behavior was with the far left arm, is just not credible.

I still don’t see how situational awareness shouldn’t be a major factor in the criticism.  Whistle, pause, board hit, star and captain on the ice with zadorov standing over.

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This board sometimes...

"Team's not tough enough."

and

"Let's ship Risto and Bogo out."

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On 3/12/2019 at 10:40 AM, Eleven said:

Yeah. I just think way too big a deal is being made of this situation.

The hits on Eichel and the response of his teammates... are emblematic of the Sabres roster... With the exception of Skinner and a handful of other honest-to Pete hockey players and leaders, the bulk of the roster appear to be losers... who cannot muster the will to win through adversity... Over-paid... Over-appreciated... It is a disease of the common professional athlete... The true champions among pro athletes... Ovechkin (as gritty as they come), Backstrom (a fourth round pick over a decade ago and all-time franchise assist leader) and so many more throughout the league... Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Rothlisberger, Kyle Williams, Lorenzo Alexander, Shady McCoy among so many others in sports... Never quit... Are always prepared... Live to win... And when they lose, they don’t make excuses... They work harder... The Sabres roster is a product of Botterill’s design... and the game effort is Houseley’s domain... Botterill is reshaping the roster, so deserves another couple years... Would have said the same about Housley except the players don’t seem to respond to him... Housley should be spitting mad with their effort... and if he is saying so the locker room... the players should reflect his disapproval on the ice... Just don’t see it happening.... This team quit 20 games ago... Sorry for the rant...

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6 hours ago, Eleven said:

This board sometimes...

"Team's not tough enough."

and

"Let's ship Risto and Bogo out."

Not me brother, I have never criticized either. Risto is a nightmare in his own end, but he does bring what this team lacks. Bogo is one of my favorite players on the team. A local boy with a real nasty streak. 

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4 hours ago, Believer said:

The hits on Eichel and the response of his teammates... are emblematic of the Sabres roster... With the exception of Skinner and a handful of other honest-to Pete hockey players and leaders, the bulk of the roster appear to be losers... who cannot muster the will to win through adversity... Over-paid... Over-appreciated... It is a disease of the common professional athlete... The true champions among pro athletes... Ovechkin (as gritty as they come), Backstrom (a fourth round pick over a decade ago and all-time franchise assist leader) and so many more throughout the league... Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Rothlisberger, Kyle Williams, Lorenzo Alexander, Shady McCoy among so many others in sports... Never quit... Are always prepared... Live to win... And when they lose, they don’t make excuses... They work harder... The Sabres roster is a product of Botterill’s design... and the game effort is Houseley’s domain... Botterill is reshaping the roster, so deserves another couple years... Would have said the same about Housley except the players don’t seem to respond to him... Housley should be spitting mad with their effort... and if he is saying so the locker room... the players should reflect his disapproval on the ice... Just don’t see it happening.... This team quit 20 games ago... Sorry for the rant...

I can't read this.

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1 minute ago, Eleven said:

I can't read this.

I can't..... Read.....This...

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Topic title.....In defense of Casey Nelson

Answer.....There is no defense for Casey Nelson.

Plain and simple

Edited by Claude Balls

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SDS, I will say it is refreshing that you are actively engaging in the conversations more. I certainly appreciate it.

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On 3/12/2019 at 10:24 PM, SDS said:

E21B5432-22BA-4FB1-8710-AB3DF6FB5CF0.png

To say it isn’t plausible that Nelson perhaps didn’t get a clear look of what happened, particularly when the egregious behavior was with the far left arm, is just not credible.

And yet he says he didn't get a clear look.

 

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5 hours ago, Weave said:

https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/news/sabres-nelson-didnt-see-eichel-get-hit

 

I am still unconvinced that he wouldn’t have had some situational awareness here.

For those that suggest this line of thought I would say that the fact that you know what exactly happened afterwords biases your opinion.  It’s too easy to say that the situation prior pizza clear picture of what happened, because you know what happened. 

Maybe you guys know otherwise, but I am unaware of a situation where someone doesn’t know what’s going on and yet they race in and just start punching people. Remember he was the first one in, not the last. 

What has really served me well over the years is when I see someone do something unexpected, I immediately consider alternatives. Because if the obvious answer isn’t correct, then maybe the story isn’t as it appears.

When I looked at Casey I saw someone who didn’t know what was going on. So instead of questioning his manhood like many fans did, I simply asked myself what were all the possibilities for why he didn’t engage. Once you allow yourself to think that way the first thing that came to mind was he clearly did not know  the situation. I then looked for where he was on the ice and there he was - behind everyone with a poor view of the situation.

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3 hours ago, Doohickie said:

And yet he says he didn't get a clear look.

 

Everyone says the right thing in hindsight. Actions speak louder than than words. If he is in the same situation, but with a better view, we'll see what the reaction is. 

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12 minutes ago, SDS said:

For those that suggest this line of thought I would say that the fact that you know what exactly happened afterwords biases your opinion.  It’s too easy to say that the situation prior pizza clear picture of what happened, because you know what happened. 

Maybe you guys know otherwise, but I am unaware of a situation where someone doesn’t know what’s going on and yet they race in and just start punching people. Remember he was the first one in, not the last. 

What has really served me well over the years is when I see someone do something unexpected, I immediately consider alternatives. Because if the obvious answer isn’t correct, then maybe the story isn’t as it appears.

When I looked at Casey I saw someone who didn’t know what was going on. So instead of questioning his manhood like many fans did, I simply asked myself what were all the possibilities for why he didn’t engage. Once you allow yourself to think that way the first thing that came to mind was he clearly did not know  the situation. I then looked for where he was on the ice and there he was - behind everyone with a poor view of the situation.

I’m not going to argue that he could have not seen the hit. I disagree that he shouldn’t have been able to figure out that it was a bad hit when the player moves forward more and he IS able to see that Jack lost his helmet. Could he possibly have thought that Jack lost his helmet some other way other than the hit?

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38 minutes ago, SDS said:

For those that suggest this line of thought I would say that the fact that you know what exactly happened afterwords biases your opinion.  It’s too easy to say that the situation prior pizza clear picture of what happened, because you know what happened. 

Maybe you guys know otherwise, but I am unaware of a situation where someone doesn’t know what’s going on and yet they race in and just start punching people. Remember he was the first one in, not the last. 

What has really served me well over the years is when I see someone do something unexpected, I immediately consider alternatives. Because if the obvious answer isn’t correct, then maybe the story isn’t as it appears.

When I looked at Casey I saw someone who didn’t know what was going on. So instead of questioning his manhood like many fans did, I simply asked myself what were all the possibilities for why he didn’t engage. Once you allow yourself to think that way the first thing that came to mind was he clearly did not know  the situation. I then looked for where he was on the ice and there he was - behind everyone with a poor view of the situation.

Processing what you don't see and adding it to what you do see pretty much is the definition of situational awareness.  It's what keeps soldiers alive in the battlefield and workers safe in busy warehouses.

Casey has NHL talent, yet he's a fringe player. Situational awareness is one thing that separates the good players from the mediocre ones.  It may very well be that Casey Nelson is s fringe player because he lacks good situational awareness.

 

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Good stuff here boys.  I’m inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt — I’ll believe him about not seeing it and be OK, since he didn’t see it, with him not going in hot.  But I recognize that YMMV on this.  

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1 hour ago, SDS said:

What has really served me well over the years is when I see someone do something unexpected, I immediately consider alternatives. Because if the obvious answer isn’t correct, then maybe the story isn’t as it appears.

The basis of virtually every mystery story/novel since Doyle started writing them.  I agree with you.

1 hour ago, Weave said:

Processing what you don't see and adding it to what you do see pretty much is the definition of situational awareness.  It's what keeps soldiers alive in the battlefield and workers safe in busy warehouses.

Casey has NHL talent, yet he's a fringe player. Situational awareness is one thing that separates the good players from the mediocre ones.  It may very well be that Casey Nelson is s fringe player because he lacks good situational awareness.

 

And this is one very interesting possible explanation and possible conclusion.  

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