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Nitro60

Sabres rebuild going nowhere.

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21 hours ago, Nitro60 said:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/sabres-rebuild-still-going-nowhere-213907773.html

The author calls the Sabres the most inept team in the NHL.  He is not far off the mark.  

"In a lot of ways this team is worse than the team that is widely regarded to be the most inept team in the league"

 

He was way out of line, They're much worse than that. 

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11 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well who knew someone was going to just erase one of the numbers?

LOL Berglund was the difference maker.  You a funny guy.

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3 hours ago, Weave said:

LOL Berglund was the difference maker.  You a funny guy.

Nah, but you have to admit on paper the idea of him playing #2 center for a year or two while Casey developed would have looked like a reasonable plan at the time. 

The draft pick (Montour?) and what they do with the money tip the scale either way. 

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3 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Nah, but you have to admit on paper the idea of him playing #2 center for a year or two while Casey developed would have looked like a reasonable plan at the time. 

The draft pick (Montour?) and what they do with the money tip the scale either way. 

My point questioning the math was, the justification for trading ROR was that moving him was addition by subtraction.  Well, we subtracted, where was the addition?  Did the team become less mopey? No.  Do they still suck?  Yes.  Like I said in a previous thread, the only thing that changed is Eyeore has a young  face now.  You can’t vall the ROR trade an addition bu subtraction trade anymore.  That math doesn’t add up.  The results are right here and now as evidence. 

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I'm as negative about this as anybody right now but I do have to admit that our defense of Risto, Montour, McCabe, Pilut, Nelson and of course Dahlin is actually extremely good and young and I think any team would like to have this "d". Up front we gave away too much in OReilly and got absolutely nothing in return and that set the team back.  I do think that phil's system whatever it is exactly is leaving the very young defense out to dry so to speak and we are in need of Quenville to implement a system whereby the forwards actually help out and play a team-defense system. 

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1 hour ago, Sabre fan said:

I'm as negative about this as anybody right now but I do have to admit that our defense of Risto, Montour, McCabe, Pilut, Nelson and of course Dahlin is actually extremely good and young and I think any team would like to have this "d". Up front we gave away too much in OReilly and got absolutely nothing in return and that set the team back.  I do think that phil's system whatever it is exactly is leaving the very young defense out to dry so to speak and we are in need of Quenville to implement a system whereby the forwards actually help out and play a team-defense system. 

I'll believe it when I see it. This D looks extremely soft to me and I don't think any club covets our defense right now. Do they have skills? Yes, I believe they do, but under Phil's tutelage, their value is plummeting. I do agree, perhaps under Quenneville (maybe even Guy Boucher) they would be harder group to play against but as I see them right now, incredibly soft. They do not take the body whatsoever and opposing entry into Buffalo's zone looks very easy right now. You will not win anything with a defense that plays the way this group is currently playing.

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On 3/12/2019 at 9:55 AM, LGR4GM said:

Now for the rest. 

Botterill shouldn't have any picks drafted outside the first round ready to make the NHL. Next year, maybe but anything outside of the first is typically 3 years away. 

You can't just remove a 10 game streak. Close wins area almost always a little flukey. We don't get to just take out large stretches of the season. It happened. Then their goaltending and defense fell apart and it snowballed to now. 

He absolutely destroyed the farm system. Zadorov, Compher, 2 Firsts, 2 more 2nd rounders, all traded away. Those 2 firsts don't include Armia or Grigorenko that was just 2 first round picks we traded straight up. So by my count, 6 guys in 3 years were sent packing. That's a hard hit unless you draft really well, which Murray didn't. He was very average, better than Darcy but average. Botterill not trading all the firsts he acquired and holding onto some extra picks is wise. We need to build up the system so this never happens again. If we had done that at the 2015 draft, we would be a playoff team. 

 

I do want to add that you are correct about hindsight. I didn't mind what Murray did at the time. I learned my lesson though. You have to draft and develop well or it doesn't matter what else you do. 

Agree with assessment on Murray, but not better than Darcy.   Darcy made some horrible trades, bad signings, and was rightfully fired In 2013....however he lasted 16 years as a GM, had three great seasons, and had incredible success in the later rounds of the draft.  For most of the 2000’s, players he drafted (and possibly traded too- which loses credit)  had far more games played and more points than players drafted by his peers.   He also worked for two regimes that were cash strapped and forced to make questionable decisions with team salary.    He also was hired almost immediately after his firing in Buffalo.   Doubtful Murray gets anything other than scout (if he can stay off the sauce) in years to come.  2016 maybe too early to call, but his other drafts were a bust.  He is by far the worst GM in Sabres history...so far. 

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19 hours ago, Weave said:

My point questioning the math was, the justification for trading ROR was that moving him was addition by subtraction.  Well, we subtracted, where was the addition?  Did the team become less mopey? No.  Do they still suck?  Yes.  Like I said in a previous thread, the only thing that changed is Eyeore has a young  face now.  You can’t vall the ROR trade an addition bu subtraction trade anymore.  That math doesn’t add up.  The results are right here and now as evidence. 

Well it will always come down to the question of whether or not you believe the narrative that there was a problem in the locker room and that had to be fixed is true or not and if you do you accept the idea that it was him and Lehner and possibly Kane and thus addition by subtraction in the long term benefit of the team. It's impossible to prove, so you believe it or you don't end of story. I believe it, I guess you don't. 

Personally I also think it likely ROR demanded a trade but did it in private and maybe said he'd make it public next year if it didn't happen. That's speculative, but I am sure he had to go for one aspect or another if not both. 

Did it help? I dunno, they seemed to have a better attitude earlier. Eichel is better. There seems to be a better team attitude. Hard for young guys to maintain that when they know they aren't going to make it this year, not enough support from lower lines, goalies etc. but overall I do believe the locker room was better. Perfect, no, far from it. But better. 

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5 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well it will always come down to the question of whether or not you believe the narrative that there was a problem in the locker room and that had to be fixed is true or not and if you do you accept the idea that it was him and Lehner and possibly Kane and thus addition by subtraction in the long term benefit of the team. It's impossible to prove, so you believe it or you don't end of story. I believe it, I guess you don't. 

Personally I also think it likely ROR demanded a trade but did it in private and maybe said he'd make it public next year if it didn't happen. That's speculative, but I am sure he had to go for one aspect or another if not both. 

Did it help? I dunno, they seemed to have a better attitude earlier. Eichel is better. There seems to be a better team attitude. Hard for young guys to maintain that when they know they aren't going to make it this year, not enough support from lower lines, goalies etc. but overall I do believe the locker room was better. Perfect, no, far from it. But better. 

Regarding your first paragraph, no it doesn’t come down to my opinion on that.  Not anymore anyway. We have evidence and on ice results now to gauge what happened. There is no evidence or  on ice results that indicate that the team is improved by his absence, so addition by subtraction simply isn’t a viable claim any more. I’ll grant that the move could have been justified by that rationale but we cannot call it a success based on that rationale.  If making the team better simply by removing ROR from the dressing room was the goal (addition by subtraction) mission not accomplished.

 

You know when the locker room was better?  When they were winning.  The issues in that room weren’t about ROR.  They were about a collection of highly competitive people being on a team that was not built to win.  We’re seeing the same thing now.  Skaters calling out goalies, Goalies calling out skaters, “we need to show up prepared”, “I need to be better”.  The only thing different is the guy saying it into the microphone.  

Addition by subtraction sure sounded good.  But it didn’t happen.

Edited by Weave
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I have no idea who the author of this article is, but what he is saying is a pretty realistic (but perhaps blunt) assessment of the Sabres.  Us fans tend to be a little too subjective at times (myself included).  However, the easiest way to judge the reality of the situation is to have someone from the outside comment objectively.  That seems to be the case here.

No one likes to read that "their team" is no good. (No parent likes to hear the Little League coach say their kid isn't that good).  I think if we all take a step (or two) back, the reality of the situation is that, yes, this Sabres team is not good.  Yet.

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12 hours ago, Weave said:

Regarding your first paragraph, no it doesn’t come down to my opinion on that.  Not anymore anyway. We have evidence and on ice results now to gauge what happened. There is no evidence or  on ice results that indicate that the team is improved by his absence, so addition by subtraction simply isn’t a viable claim any more. I’ll grant that the move could have been justified by that rationale but we cannot call it a success based on that rationale.  If making the team better simply by removing ROR from the dressing room was the goal (addition by subtraction) mission not accomplished.

 

You know when the locker room was better?  When they were winning.  The issues in that room weren’t about ROR.  They were about a collection of highly competitive people being on a team that was not built to win.  We’re seeing the same thing now.  Skaters calling out goalies, Goalies calling out skaters, “we need to show up prepared”, “I need to be better”.  The only thing different is the guy saying it into the microphone.  

Addition by subtraction sure sounded good.  But it didn’t happen.

Don't agree but I don't think we will get anywhere further with this so I'm going to leave it there. 

The test for me is next season. I expect the right moves and for us to be a playoff team. If we are the same or worse next year then I will agree and take it one step further and JBot will be another failure, but I have faith for next year. No longer.

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On 3/13/2019 at 1:28 AM, PerreaultForever said:

Nah, but you have to admit on paper the idea of him playing #2 center for a year or two while Casey developed would have looked like a reasonable plan at the time. 

The draft pick (Montour?) and what they do with the money tip the scale either way. 

Not really, he'd be a vastly below average 2C and probably below average 3C.

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JBots interview June 29th:

”As you can see we just need to be patient.  It’s hard to win games and score goals.  But just look at a guy like Sobotka. Yeah he had a rough patch but he absolutely exploded the last 20 games for two goals and an assist!  He won almost 35% of his faceoffs and was so great on the penalty kill.  It’s hard working character guys like that we are building with.  That is why we are extending him and getting him locked in long term.  You will all thank me later” 😂

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At least my beer league team won its championship 5-2

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