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Goaltending Next Year


GASabresIUFAN

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There is a discussion brewing on Ullmark and Hutton and whether they are good enough to get this team to the playoffs.  There has also been a discussion on the comeback kid Robyn Lehner.

It was raised that our goaltending has let us down since the streak and there is some truth to this.  However there is also truth in that the guys have let the goaltenders down with their failure to back check and failuire to clear the front of the net or clear the zone quickly.  

While I believe there is a difference between a good goalie and a great one, I do think defensive system play a huge role in goaltender stats.  Take Lehner for example.  Is he really a better goalie then he was here, or does the NYI system make his stats look better then he actually is.  I think with Lehner the system his success this year is more about system then his improved game.

That said, I think the results since the streak are a mix of three things.  1) bad defensive personal.  2) to many soft goals (we Ullmark against Edm) and 3) system failure. 

1) Risto, Bogo can't play defense to save their lives and Scandy has joined them this season.  According to reports from ANA Montour's D game is vastly improved but not great and Dahlin is 18.  This maybe a recipe for 5 man unit offense, but we have been ham fisted in our zone for months.  

2) Ullmark and Hutton have rarely made the big save of late.

3) The system:  Without the right or mature players this Nashville system creates to many odd man chances the other way.

So does Jbot stick with what we have by re-signing RFA Ullmark or does he make changes here as well?  My guess is he retains both and hopes that some maturity, experience in the system and improvements elsewhere on the roster improve the results for our goalies.

 

Edited by GASabresIUFAN
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i think the goaltending, more than any other element hurting the team right now, is about two players going through a rough patch more than anything else.

I don’t think acquiring another goaie needs to be a priority given our other issues. Both goalies are, at worst, capable backups and Hutton will rebound. If Linus doesn’t emerge as the starter next year though, we have issues.

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Inconsistent and unreliable is how I'd categorize them. Hutton is what he is and that's not going to change at his age but Ullmark is an oddity to me. He makes some great saves at times and I could see him get on a hot streak at any time for a while, but ultimately he does not seem to be fixing simple fundamental issues like (for example) playing tight to the post. As a result, easy goals let in at any point. Reinhart wasn't wrong. Shouldn't have said it publicly, but he wasn't wrong. 

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6 hours ago, dudacek said:

i think the goaltending, more than any other element hurting the team right now, is about two players going through a rough patch more than anything else.

I don’t think acquiring another goaie needs to be a priority given our other issues. Both goalies are, at worst, capable backups and Hutton will rebound. If Linus doesn’t emerge as the starter next year though, we have issues.

If they aren't playing well, what makes them 'capable' backups? When will Hutton rebound? We've been waiting.

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19 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

It's an interesting question.  If, say, Bobrovsky indicated to JB that he'd be willing to sign for, say, $6MM x 5 years -- are ya interested?

He's making 7.5M AAV now, why would he sign for less as a UFA??

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1 hour ago, jsb said:

He's making 7.5M AAV now, why would he sign for less as a UFA?? 

Good question!

I suppose the answer is that he can only get what the market will bear, and I'm skeptical that someone will pay him that much at this point -- he turns 31 in September and his numbers are in decline (2.81 GAA, .905 SV% this year vs 2.42 and .921 last year).

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1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

It's an interesting question.  If, say, Bobrovsky indicated to JB that he'd be willing to sign for, say, $6MM x 5 years -- are ya interested?

Yes.  If I were JBOT I would sign him to that contract.  Trade Hutton, or keep him as bate for Seattle.  When is the expansion draft?  Is it tentative pending a work stoppage?

+++++

To the OP.

I am still much more concerned about the goalers this year, up until the Sabres are eliminated from the playoffs officially, which will likely happen in the final week, or so, of the season.  I am not giving up yet.

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9 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

1) Risto, Bogo can't play defense to save their lives and Scandy has joined them this season.  According to reports from ANA Montour's D game is vastly improved but not great and Dahlin is 18.  This maybe a recipe for 5 man unit offense, but we have been ham fisted in our zone for months.  

2) Ullmark and Hutton have rarely made the big save of late.

3) The system:  Without the right or mature players this Nashville system creates to many odd man chances the other way.

1)  Come on.  You really think Ristolainen and Bogosian "can't play defense to save their lives"?  This is the type of statement that makes one want to ignore the rest of the post.

2)  Ullmark, Friday night.  Quite a few big saves.

3)  Here's the real problem.  Housley's system is reliant upon better goaltending than what he has right now.  You're dead right; the odd-man rushes are a product of what is an exciting system, but the goalies just aren't good enough.  

Hopefully Ullmark grows into it because Lukkonen has years to go before he's NHL ready.

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47 minutes ago, Eleven said:

1)  Come on.  You really think Ristolainen and Bogosian "can't play defense to save their lives"?  This is the type of statement that makes one want to ignore the rest of the post.

2)  Ullmark, Friday night.  Quite a few big saves.

3)  Here's the real problem.  Housley's system is reliant upon better goaltending than what he has right now.  You're dead right; the odd-man rushes are a product of what is an exciting system, but the goalies just aren't good enough.  

Hopefully Ullmark grows into it because Lukkonen has years to go before he's NHL ready.

The bold is true, but it is also true that the skaters can’t clear the zone fast enough and the forwards aren’t creating/finishing enough chances. He said again this week: the best defence is having the puck down the other end of the ice. In short, the talent isn’t there yet.

He’s careful in how he says it, but Botterill has made it clear that this is what he believes and it is incumbent on the organization to acquire and develop more talent. He believes in the system Housley plays and in the ability of his coaching staff to develop players within that system. But he doesn’t believe there is enough talent, or at least fully developed talent here, to consistently win yet.

I don’t think he’s wrong. 

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Goaltending quality has dropped since the streak, no doubt.  Part of that is "soft" goals our tandem should have covered, but I also don't recall a year where there have been so many "fluky' goals like deflections off skates, etc.  Call it bad "puck luck", bad bounces or whatever.

My overall $0.02 is that our tandem is still good enough vs. other areas of weakness on our team.  They are not championship caliber, but they are capable enough as evident by their play during the streak.  If our forwards can back check better....if our defense can do a better job of clearing the front and preventing second and third chances, then I don't think we have to ponder this question. 

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18 minutes ago, dudacek said:

The bold is true, but it is also true that the skaters can’t clear the zone fast enough and the forwards aren’t creating/finishing enough chances. He said again this week: the best defence is having the puck down the other end of the ice. In short, the talent isn’t there yet.

He’s careful in how he says it, but Botterill has made it clear that this is what he believes and it is incumbent on the organization to acquire and develop more talent. He believes in the system Housley plays and in the ability of his coaching staff to develop players within that system. But he doesn’t believe there is enough talent, or at least fully developed talent here, to consistently win yet.

I don’t think he’s wrong. 

If that-is JBotts evaluation, I tend to think he is way more right than wrong.

Where I do think he is wrong is, allowing a system that we don’t have the horses for to be fully implemented.  We have seen the effect that the frustration of extended losing has on good veteran players, let alone rookies and young stars.

IMO the team would be doing much more good for the future by partially implementing the system but still using significant elements of play that are better suited to the personnel we do have.  The confidence, winning and esprit de corp can be built upon as the team gets further molded.

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1 hour ago, Eleven said:

1)  Come on.  You really think Ristolainen and Bogosian "can't play defense to save their lives"?  This is the type of statement that makes one want to ignore the rest of the post.

2)  Ullmark, Friday night.  Quite a few big saves.

3)  Here's the real problem.  Housley's system is reliant upon better goaltending than what he has right now.  You're dead right; the odd-man rushes are a product of what is an exciting system, but the goalies just aren't good enough.  

Hopefully Ullmark grows into it because Lukkonen has years to go before he's NHL ready.

I admit there may have been some hyperbole in my comments about Bogo and Risto, but serious, both have been terrible in our zone this season. I’m not an advanced stat kind of guy, but from what I’ve seen watching the games and with the traditional stats illustrate to me Risto, Scandy and Bogo aren’t doing their job in our zone and haven’t all season.

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17 hours ago, dudacek said:

i think the goaltending, more than any other element hurting the team right now, is about two players going through a rough patch more than anything else.

I don’t think acquiring another goaie needs to be a priority given our other issues. Both goalies are, at worst, capable backups and Hutton will rebound. If Linus doesn’t emerge as the starter next year though, we have issues.

The goaltending largely was why we were leading the NHL through the end of November and largely is the reason why we have been dreadfull the past 3 months.

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They are both back with Ullmark getting 2/3rds of the starts. 

Hope UPL follows a similar trajectory to Carter Hart and is NHL Ready sooner rather than later. (2020-21 Season) 

Also replacing Andrew Allen, the Goalie Coach might be of some benefit as no one has appeared to excel in their development under him.  

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On 3/6/2019 at 12:07 PM, dudacek said:

The bold is true, but it is also true that the skaters can’t clear the zone fast enough and the forwards aren’t creating/finishing enough chances. He said again this week: the best defence is having the puck down the other end of the ice. In short, the talent isn’t there yet.

And having the puck down at the other end of the ice includes good forechecking.  We go thru the motions and teams clear the zone easily.  Forechecking is an art and we don't have artists or artist educators.  Or perhaps it's simply a lack of effort.  And that's on the coaching.

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