2019 Off Season

[Weave]

4 minutes ago, Radar said:

Before we trade Risto away I'd rather they see if they could do that.

I surely don’t.  I think the prudent move is still bringing in a known quantity 2C.

[GASabresIUFAN]

5 minutes ago, Weave said:

I surely don’t.  I think the prudent move is still bringing in a known quantity 2C.

Exactly.  Someone, who could slide to wing or 3rd line as Casey matures.

Someone like Johansson or Dzingel etc...

[Radar]

32 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Exactly.  Someone, who could slide to wing or 3rd line as Casey matures.

Someone like Johansson or Dzingel etc...

Okay. I'm in on that. They're free agents. I'm just not enthusiastic about trading Risto for a stop gap #2 center.

[Brawndo]

52 minutes ago, Weave said:

Are there enough wingers on the roster now for all of the lines?

We could see Casey get another shot at 2C with actual middle six wings.

This might be the plan with Reinhart on Casey’s Wing. Reinhart could take the defensive zone draws and handle the lines primary defense responsibilities while continuing to drive offense from the wing. 

If acquiring a 2C such as Granlund from Nashville is out of the question, this might be the best remaining option. 

 

Casey has his best metrics with  EROD on his wing as well 

[Marvin]

29 minutes ago, CallawaySabres said:

That roster belongs to one of the five worst teams in hockey. There is absolutely no way that they could put that on the ice. If JV is on the top line for the season, they have already conceded to a lottery pick and probably top 5 overall

It could be worse.  If the hosts and many of the guests today on WGR had their way, the line-up could just be adding depth wingers to:

Vesey - Eichel - Nylander

Skinner - Mittlestadt - Reinhart

Olofsson - Rodrigues - Sheary

Thompson - Sobotka - Okposo

Elie - Asplund - Smith

Many of the guests today thought that Eichel could elevate Nylander and Vesey to 25G players, whence Skinner and Reinhart could make an effective second line with Mittlestadt.  PHam thinks that Sobotka is better than Girgensons and Larsson.  Schopp thinks that last year's 4th liners were the problem and not 2C.  Others on WGR think that Thompson on Eichel's wing would score over 20 next year.  Several people working with the station today seemed to imply that the above forward lines should make the playoffs.

Their love of Sobotka and Thompson that makes me wonder how many of these guys has more access than the let on.  No one with any objectivity who believes in Multivariate Statistics, RDBMS querying, and NoSQL databases should believe those 2 should be anywhere near the Sabres.  On the other hand, JBot clearly thinks they belong in the Opening Night line-up.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Jbot has another 90 days before he season starts to complete his roster.  

To quote Robert Frost - “miles to go before he sleeps”

This roster is far from complete.  RFA contracts possibly next on his agenda. 

Forwards under contract:

NHL (9) - Jack, Sam, Skinner, Casey, KO, Vesey, Wilson, Sobatka, and Sheary

Minors (4) - Ruotsalainen, Nylander, Thompson, Olofsson

RFAs (4) - Girgensons, Erod, Larsson and Smith

That 17 bodies for 13 jobs.  

Defense under contract

NHL (8) Ristolainen, Dahlin, Montour, Miller, Scandella, Hunwick, Nelson and Bogosian (IR?)

Minors (3) - Pilut (IR), Gilmour, Borgen

RFA - McCabe

that’s 12 guys for 8 jobs, although the 3 AHLers will start in the AHL.

[jad1]

1 minute ago, E4 ... Ke2 said:

It could be worse.  If the hosts and many of the guests today on WGR had their way, the line-up could just be adding depth wingers to:

Vesey - Eichel - Nylander

Skinner - Mittlestadt - Reinhart

Olofsson - Rodrigues - Sheary

Thompson - Sobotka - Okposo

Elie - Asplund - Smith

Many of the guests today thought that Eichel could elevate Nylander and Vesey to 25G players, whence Skinner and Reinhart could make an effective second line with Mittlestadt.  PHam thinks that Sobotka is better than Girgensons and Larsson.  Schopp thinks that last year's 4th liners were the problem and not 2C.  Others on WGR think that Thompson on Eichel's wing would score over 20 next year.  Several people working with the station today seemed to imply that the above forward lines should make the playoffs.

Their love of Sobotka and Thompson that makes me wonder how many of these guys has more access than the let on.  No one with any objectivity who believes in Multivariate Statistics, RDBMS querying, and NoSQL databases should believe those 2 should be anywhere near the Sabres.  On the other hand, JBot clearly thinks they belong in the Opening Night line-up.

The roster listed above will struggle to hit 70 points this season.

Botterill has till the end of August, but if he doesn't acquire a legitimate 2nd line center, this will be his last season as GM for the Sabres.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, jad1 said:

The roster listed above will struggle to hit 70 points this season.

Botterill has till the end of August, but if he doesn't acquire a legitimate 2nd line center, this will be his last season as GM for the Sabres.

2 minor quibbles with the 2nd sentence.

1. He's got through September to make improvements.

2.  Though we'd all want to lynch him should he not bringin a 2C, I expect the Pegulas will give him at least 1 more year even w/out a new 2C.

[jad1]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

2 minor quibbles with the 2nd sentence.

1. He's got through September to make improvements.

2.  Though we'd all want to lynch him should he not bringin a 2C, I expect the Pegulas will give him at least 1 more year even w/out a new 2C.

Sure, September is good.  So say that the Botterill doesn't acquire a 2C, and the Sabres finish with 75 points.  That makes 3 straight seasons where the team doesn't top 80 points.  How many GMs get that much leaway?

His picks are in the pipeline, Botterill doesn't have to be here to see them graduate to the NHL roster.  The Pegulas can keep the prospects and hire a GM who knows how to build a better NHL roster.

[Huckleberry]

Trading in a hurry is what got us the O'Reilly return, I like that he is taking his time, letting people know Ristolainen doesn't come cheap.

If you want a 2C now it might not be the upgrade you want, I want a 70 point 2C.   Ristolainen might get us that, but if no gm wants to give it to us then we might just well start the season with Samson as 2C.    

Johansson is still an option out there, Dzingel is not a center and I'd avoid him.

[jahnyc]

I think many of us are tired of being patient.  I also understand that we do not have a choice, but this rebuild has taken a long time and seems to still have a long way to go.  Would give us some hope if we could acquire some decent free agents, but I get that they may not want to play for the Sabres for any number of reasons, including our inability to improve and make the playoffs.  As we have seen, making trades can help or hurt, and same with free agent signings.  What this team should have by this point is a strong pipeline of young talent.  Until that happens, and is clear to all of us, the Sabres will continue to struggle.

[jad1]

3 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Trading in a hurry is what got us the O'Reilly return, I like that he is taking his time, letting people know Ristolainen doesn't come cheap.

If you want a 2C now it might not be the upgrade you want, I want a 70 point 2C.   Ristolainen might get us that, but if no gm wants to give it to us then we might just well start the season with Samson as 2C.    

Johansson is still an option out there, Dzingel is not a center and I'd avoid him.

Sure, he has 3 months to make a deal, and he should use as much as that time as he needs.

Even with Reinhart at 2C, the team still lacks top 6 talent.  Going into the season with the roster as it is would be a mistake, so while there's no immediate rush to acquire the 2nd line center man, it needs to be done before training camp.

 

[Tondas]

JBOT has to have a nod from Pegula that this coming year is another struggle.  He's been too calm with all the crap that he still needs to shed.  Next year will be another struggle (suffering) year.  The year after that, the real accountability begins.  Oh well, I'll still watch every game.  GO <yawn> SABRES!

[Zamboni]

1 minute ago, jad1 said:

Sure, he has 3 months to make a deal, and he should use as much as that time as he needs.

Even with Reinhart at 2C, the team still lacks top 6 talent.  Going into the season with the roster as it is would be a mistake, so while there's no immediate rush to acquire the 2nd line center man, it needs to be done before training camp.

 

Good thing we have until Oct. 3rd to get one. I hope JB continues to take his time. Just get it right ??

I like what’s he’s doing so far. He’s getting a ton of talent for Roch. Good thing it’s not really costing much besides $$$. Some fans can’t appreciate that.

I think there will be more moves. Moves that will even more directly affect the Sabres current roster. Hopefully a top 6 established vet.

[Taro T]

22 minutes ago, jad1 said:

Sure, September is good.  So say that the Botterill doesn't acquire a 2C, and the Sabres finish with 75 points.  That makes 3 straight seasons where the team doesn't top 80 points.  How many GMs get that much leaway?

His picks are in the pipeline, Botterill doesn't have to be here to see them graduate to the NHL roster.  The Pegulas can keep the prospects and hire a GM who knows how to build a better NHL roster.

Again, not saying he should be back if the team doesn't significantly improve.  Just saying I expect he has more rope from management than people here would give him.

And I do expect at least 1 more move this summer and possibly up to 3 (not including more Amerk signings).

[jad1]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

Again, not saying he should be back if the team doesn't significantly improve.  Just saying I expect he has more rope from management than people here would give him.

And I do expect at least 1 more move this summer and possibly up to 3 (not including more Amerk signings).

I don't think he's that special.  If the Sabres don't improve this season he's gone, basically because he would have butchered the NHL roster.

However, I do agree with you that he will make more moves before training camp; hopefully he will be able to improve the quality of the top 6 fowards.  That would turn the team's fortunes around.

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, jad1 said:

I don't think he's that special.  If the Sabres don't improve this season he's gone, basically because he would have butchered the NHL roster.

However, I do agree with you that he will make more moves before training camp; hopefully he will be able to improve the quality of the top 6 fowards.  That would turn the team's fortunes around.

Fair enough.

[Marvin]

27 minutes ago, Tondas said:

JBOT has to have a nod from Pegula that this coming year is another struggle.  He's been too calm with all the crap that he still needs to shed.  Next year will be another struggle (suffering) year.  The year after that, the real accountability begins.  Oh well, I'll still watch every game.  GO <yawn> SABRES!

After turning off the radio, I am feeling nostalgic.  If JBot doesn't get a #2C before the season starts, it will be time to break out that old school chant, "OOH!  AHH!  Sabres on the golf course!"

[Brawndo]

Based on Pegula’s Comments about wanting continuity, I would not be surprised if Botterill and Krueger get 3 seasons til the end of their existing contracts.

Todd McClellan bringing up the turnover of coaches and managerial staff for both teams during his interview probably reinforced that belief. 

I’m sure that Botterill offered Tampa 31st overall for JT Miller and Tampa realized that the Canucks First Rounder was likely to more valuable over the next two drafts. 

Botterill said we were interested in a couple UFAs today, but could not find a fit. The rumors were they were in on Donskoi and Nyquist, either would have been a good upgrade to the RW Position. Both said thanks but no thanks and signed with playoff teams. 

There is a perception around the league about the Sabres and winning is all that will change it. 

He also said that the number of high end RFAs is holding things up in some aspects with the UFA Market and more importantly the trade market in a press conference at the draft. 

The market price is high  for a 2C as of the moment. Barrie, who at least drives offense play, required the including of retaining half his salary and Alex Kerfoot to get Kadri and Rosen.  Risto doesn’t even come close to obtaining Kadri on his own. 

There is also the possibility that Botterill looks at the price of a 2C and thinks he has two candidates to take the job in Mittelstadt and Cozens. Mittelstadt being sheltered by having  Reinhart on his wing for the next season might be the only option. 

And if Mittelstadt puts in the offseason conditioning he needs too, he might actually have a chance to succeed. 

Having the patience and trying to wait for a good team, royally sucks especially after the 8 years of Hell this team has put its fans through.

 

 

 

 

[Taro T]

26 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Based on Pegula’s Comments about wanting continuity, I would not be surprised if Botterill and Krueger get 3 seasons til the end of their existing contracts.

Todd McClellan bringing up the turnover of coaches and managerial staff for both teams during his interview probably reinforced that belief. 

I’m sure that Botterill offered Tampa 31st overall for JT Miller and Tampa realized that the Canucks First Rounder was likely to more valuable over the next two drafts. 

Botterill said we were interested in a couple UFAs today, but could not find a fit. The rumors were they were in on Donskoi and Nyquist, either would have been a good upgrade to the RW Position. Both said thanks but no thanks and signed with playoff teams. 

There is a perception around the league about the Sabres and winning is all that will change it. 

He also said that the number of high end RFAs is holding things up in some aspects with the UFA Market and more importantly the trade market in a press conference at the draft. 

The market price is high  for a 2C as of the moment. Barrie, who at least drives offense play, required the including of retaining half his salary and Alex Kerfoot to get Kadri and Rosen.  Risto doesn’t even come close to obtaining Kadri on his own. 

There is also the possibility that Botterill looks at the price of a 2C and thinks he has two candidates to take the job in Mittelstadt and Cozens. Mittelstadt being sheltered by having  Reinhart on his wing for the next season might be the only option. 

And if Mittelstadt puts in the offseason conditioning he needs too, he might actually have a chance to succeed. 

Having the patience and trying to wait for a good team, royally sucks especially after the 8 years of Hell this team has put its fans through.

 

 

 

 

Very reasonable take.  My concern is that Botterill might be able to convince himself that your comments on Mittelstadt are reasonable & realistic.  Mitts won't be ready for 2C in a best case until after the AS break & realistically next season.

And should Mitts get time at 2C, then there isn't a viable 3C on the roster.  Which not having a 3C behind him lowers his chances of success all the more.  Granted a 3C should be easier to obtain, but Mitts is currently the only realistic viable option there.

[Curt]

30 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Based on Pegula’s Comments about wanting continuity, I would not be surprised if Botterill and Krueger get 3 seasons til the end of their existing contracts.

Todd McClellan bringing up the turnover of coaches and managerial staff for both teams during his interview probably reinforced that belief. 

I’m sure that Botterill offered Tampa 31st overall for JT Miller and Tampa realized that the Canucks First Rounder was likely to more valuable over the next two drafts. 

Botterill said we were interested in a couple UFAs today, but could not find a fit. The rumors were they were in on Donskoi and Nyquist, either would have been a good upgrade to the RW Position. Both said thanks but no thanks and signed with playoff teams. 

There is a perception around the league about the Sabres and winning is all that will change it. 

He also said that the number of high end RFAs is holding things up in some aspects with the UFA Market and more importantly the trade market in a press conference at the draft. 

The market price is high  for a 2C as of the moment. Barrie, who at least drives offense play, required the including of retaining half his salary and Alex Kerfoot to get Kadri and Rosen.  Risto doesn’t even come close to obtaining Kadri on his own. 

There is also the possibility that Botterill looks at the price of a 2C and thinks he has two candidates to take the job in Mittelstadt and Cozens. Mittelstadt being sheltered by having  Reinhart on his wing for the next season might be the only option. 

And if Mittelstadt puts in the offseason conditioning he needs too, he might actually have a chance to succeed. 

Having the patience and trying to wait for a good team, royally sucks especially after the 8 years of Hell this team has put its fans through.

Totally agree with the overall ideology of this.  Patience is needed, even if Buffalo fans are all out of it.

Regarding the bolded.  One thing that may help Risto’s trade value is that he is signed for 3 more seasons, as upposed to 1 for Barrie.

Agree that 2C’s generally do not come cheap.  Botterill is going to be on the lookout for a good value buy opportunity.  Mittelstadt at 2C does not fill me with confidence, but it may be better to start the season with that than overpay in term/salary or in trade assets.

[Gatorman0519]

Jbot did inherit a disaster.  The ROR trade was a one step back for the one foot forward with Skinner.  It's still going to take a few more years more than likely.

Edited July 2, 2019 by Gatorman0519

[Marvin]

3 hours ago, Taro T said:

Very reasonable take.  My concern is that Botterill might be able to convince himself that your comments on Mittelstadt are reasonable & realistic.  Mitts won't be ready for 2C in a best case until after the AS break & realistically next season.

And should Mitts get time at 2C, then there isn't a viable 3C on the roster.  Which not having a 3C behind him lowers his chances of success all the more.  Granted a 3C should be easier to obtain, but Mitts is currently the only realistic viable option there.

I know why I am impatient.  Simply, I don't trust JBot's abilities to objectively evaluate the roster, identify NHL quality talent, or jettison the worst deadweight.

JBot has now had one calendar year to find a #2C.  Last season, he preferred squandering a 10 game winning streak over a draft pick.  He has not demonstrated the foresight to account for the possibility that Casey Mittlestadt is not ready to shoulder heavy line-up responsibilities.  During last year's training camp, people here reported that John Vogl said that he knew that Tage Thompson would be in the line-up opening night in spite of all evidence that he needed to be in Rochester.  He has never found a reason let alone a method to get Vladimir Sobotka off the Sabres.

Until I have evidence that he will ice a roster with 4 complete forward lines of NHL-level players, even by accident (...and Skinner-Eichel-Reinhart followed three lines with the talent levels of Mair-Gaustad-Kaleta, Peters-Novotny-Ryan, and Bartovic-Taylor-Botterill would be minimally passable...), I will assume that he is fine with next season's roster looking a lot like last season's roster.

[Thorny]

4 hours ago, E4 ... Ke2 said:

I know why I am impatient.  Simply, I don't trust JBot's abilities to objectively evaluate the roster, identify NHL quality talent, or jettison the worst deadweight.

JBot has now had one calendar year to find a #2C.  Last season, he preferred squandering a 10 game winning streak over a draft pick.  He has not demonstrated the foresight to account for the possibility that Casey Mittlestadt is not ready to shoulder heavy line-up responsibilities.  During last year's training camp, people here reported that John Vogl said that he knew that Tage Thompson would be in the line-up opening night in spite of all evidence that he needed to be in Rochester.  He has never found a reason let alone a method to get Vladimir Sobotka off the Sabres.

Until I have evidence that he will ice a roster with 4 complete forward lines of NHL-level players, even by accident (...and Skinner-Eichel-Reinhart followed three lines with the talent levels of Mair-Gaustad-Kaleta, Peters-Novotny-Ryan, and Bartovic-Taylor-Botterill would be minimally passable...), I will assume that he is fine with next season's roster looking a lot like last season's roster.

This. It's mismanagement, not patience, if we start the year without one.

It's more important than ever, now that we have 2 young potential future top-6 quality centres that need to be sheltered and brought along properly. 

[Carmel Corn]

8 hours ago, Taro T said:

Very reasonable take.  My concern is that Botterill might be able to convince himself that your comments on Mittelstadt are reasonable & realistic.  Mitts won't be ready for 2C in a best case until after the AS break & realistically next season.

And should Mitts get time at 2C, then there isn't a viable 3C on the roster.  Which not having a 3C behind him lowers his chances of success all the more.  Granted a 3C should be easier to obtain, but Mitts is currently the only realistic viable option there.

Agree!  First, I need to see a lot more from Mittelstadt to convince me he is ever going to be a legitimate top 6 player.  Maybe eventually, but I also say maybe NOT suited for the NHL game.

Second, I am not convinced that Sam is our 2019-2020 2C.  Top 6 winger, yes...but have not seen enough evidence that he can transition to the center role at this level.

A viable 2C (for 2019/2020) is not in our organization today and we need to trade for it.  That 2C would need to become our 1C if Jack gets knocked out of the lineup for injury.

Edited July 2, 2019 by Carmel Corn