Wyldnwoody44 Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 As the season appears to be sadly slipping away, there are many different tangents we have been going on. Phil, ROR, Rochester, GMJB, etc. But over the last 2 month, looking at eichel, I am wholly unimpressed. Yes, Jack is a great talent, he's probably our best player, but our best isn't good enough. I don't really do stats, so you guys can certainly bring that it here, but looking and seeing controller unplugged Jack has been concerning, his D awareness and hustle had been intermittent at best, his shot and pass selections are a mess, he's still not hitting the net, he hasn't thrown a check since I can't remember when. His attitude just screams entitled, I don't know what it is exactly, but while he's an offensivelu gifted player, he often leaves much to be desired on an "intangible" level. Some may not agree, but id like to hear what you guys think, I also think some healthy debate can happen here, and gives eichel his own thread also. Lastly, would anyone be opposed to trading Jack for an amazing haul? Vegas made it to the finals with good pieces throughout and no true star, it's not like it can't happen, it's not what I'm advocating, just advancing discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Buff Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) I think while evaluating Eichel one needs to keep in mind he's only 22 years old & still coming into his own as a man & NHL player. I think if Eichel were playing on another team with a deeper talent pool he probably wouldnt have gotten the C. But since we're not one of those teams with a solid roster, he got the C for lack of having anyone else to give it to imo. Jack is the leader of this team & our offense revolves around him & his play making ability. I would like to see Jack shoot more personally, as he has a super quick release that is pretty darn accurate. I'm not a big fan of his one timers tho. But he's gotten better defensively since last year & as he gets older & gets more experience, I only expect that to improve & for him to turn into a great 2 way player. But I dont see any scenarios where we trade him. Maybe a few years down the road if anything, but by then I imagine our team will look a lot different than it does now & we'll be one of the better teams in the league. Hopefully making all the negative thoughts & posts we've endured these past few years a distant memory. Edited February 16, 2019 by MillerVaive 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 Eichel definitely wasnt the best player in the draft the year they got him. And he is t going to be one of the 'Generational Superstars' like Sid. I also wouldnt put him in the Elite category with guys like McDavid, Matthew's, Ovi, Malkin, Stamkos, Tavares, etc. He is definitely a great player though with lots of talent and probably at the top of the next rung of talent which is at least what you would expect for someone draft in the top couple spots of any draft. I have always felt that talent does not and should not determine who gets a 'C'. Guys can have tremendous talent but not be 'C' material. Vanek was almost always one of the most talented players on the Sabres when he was here, but he wasnt what you would want to be the 'C'. Jack has never struck me as the type of player who would be a great leader even with being the most talented player on the team. He says the right things to the media usually, but I Never got that vibe he would lead a lockerroom, at least not at a young age. Now I also believe that it really doesnt matter who has a 'C' or 'A' on their Jersey, it's more of a symbolic gesture and doesnt matter at all. A true leader doesnt need the letter to lead in the lockerroom and will do it with or without anything extra on the Jersey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 For better, or worse, this is Jack's team. I will not pollute this thread with a tirade on how he arrived here. He is the face of the franchise and, therefore, is 'Captain material'. That said, I agree that he is not a leader of this team now. He may develop into that. He is still a kid. As time goes by, I think that he will be the second most talented player on the Sabres. Eventually, Dahlin has a good chance of developing into a real leader of this team, but Jack will still be the face of it and will wear the 'C' for as long as he is here. I can't see the Sabres trading him before his current contract is up. After all we have been through I would not want to trade Jack even for an amazing haul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabel79 Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 I don't think the letter stitched to the sweater matters as much as fans in general and Ryan O'Riley think it does. The symbolism behind it is obviously powerful, but (with obvious, notable, and few examples) one dude can't ever strap an entire team to his back and lead them to glory. Leaders, plural, are needed. What the Sabres are saying is that this is the guy we blew it all up for, who we're telling you the fans to have hope in, and so it goes. Locker room politics are likely different, and there needs to be a steadying presence. Where xGMTM failed miserably is, more than any other aspect, here. Brian Gionta surrounded by random garbage and a few legitimate bad eggs (allegedly) doesn't exactly set the right tone with the kids. JBots needs to be given at least as long as Tim got to fix it, and the clear season-on-season improvement we see in year two has me hopeful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 Too early to say. They have been asking a lot of him. See McDavid. Better individual talent, but his team is no better than ours. To to be honest, I doubt that even Gordie Howe in his prime Would be much better than Jack given his supporting cast and the coaching rollercoaster. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 1 minute ago, realtruelove said: It may be a bit too early to say but the pressure is definitely building on Jack. We all can sense it. He's definitely talented and the best player on the team right now but there is no way he should be it's captain. This team has no captain. If pressure is building that is good. Let him work through it. Leadership is earned, and so far he is earning his way. Jack is the captain, he is doing his best in that role. We are 4 points out of 8th on Feb 16. Could be and has been worse. I see no need to analyze this to death. I think he holds himself accountable, now he needs to hold others accountable and they need to respond positively or be moved on. I think a 22 year old deserves more than one season with the C before we judge. Expectations need to be realistic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 10 minutes ago, realtruelove said: It may be a bit too early to say but the pressure is definitely building on Jack. We all can sense it. He's definitely talented and the best player on the team right now but there is no way he should be it's captain. This team has no captain. Bogo is your captain. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woods-racer Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 37 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said: Bogo is your captain. The team does rally around him. Early in the season he got into two fights in one game IIRC, the teamed rallied for a week on that. They are in desperate need of a true leader, weather the leader wears the *C* or not is immaterial. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 Can we stop confusing captain with leader? 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 12 minutes ago, inkman said: Can we stop confusing captain with leader? ?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 Just read the thread and all the responses. I have to say, I find issue with all of them, and agree with all of them. To me that means the team is at a crossroads. I think we all know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 This is the same thing they've said about Giroux for years in Philly, and yet he's quietly still their best player and an oft over looked star in the league. It's always a fan debate on whether your C should go to your best player or some other vocal veteran "leader" but the teams themselves rarely have a problem with this supposed issue. It's just optics. I like Bogo, and he deserves the A (something criticized and questioned on this board when it happened if you remember - and not to mention most of you wanted him bought out and run out of town last year too!) but Jack is the star of this team and he will be the C as long as he is here. Skinner is having a great year, but it has a lot to do with playing with Jack. Jack is and should be captain. Lol, I guess back in the old days you haters would have stripped the C from #11 and given it to Dudley cause of the cool headband or maybe even Spinner after he had 2 fights in a game and yelled at somebody. :) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatorman0519 Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 He will mature into it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 Hopefully he does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 2 hours ago, inkman said: Can we stop confusing captain with leader? Right. Bogo is your leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matter2003 Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 4 hours ago, New Scotland (NS) said: Bogo is your captain. Yup...as soon as he returned to the lineup they went from playing 3 great defensive games to a defensive disaster....sure looks like captain material... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torpedo Forecheck Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said: This is the same thing they've said about Giroux for years in Philly, and yet he's quietly still their best player and an oft over looked star in the league. It's always a fan debate on whether your C should go to your best player or some other vocal veteran "leader" but the teams themselves rarely have a problem with this supposed issue. It's just optics. I like Bogo, and he deserves the A (something criticized and questioned on this board when it happened if you remember - and not to mention most of you wanted him bought out and run out of town last year too!) but Jack is the star of this team and he will be the C as long as he is here. Skinner is having a great year, but it has a lot to do with playing with Jack. Jack is and should be captain. Lol, I guess back in the old days you haters would have stripped the C from #11 and given it to Dudley cause of the cool headband or maybe even Spinner after he had 2 fights in a game and yelled at somebody. :) Good post! To think I thought the Bills site was bad. Hockey fans are even less informed. Jack is not a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 To the OP: yes. Dissatisfaction with his leadership is simply the result of a mistaken belief that one player was going to save the franchise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 4 hours ago, PerreaultForever said: This is the same thing they've said about Giroux for years in Philly, and yet he's quietly still their best player and an oft over looked star in the league. It's always a fan debate on whether your C should go to your best player or some other vocal veteran "leader" but the teams themselves rarely have a problem with this supposed issue. It's just optics. I like Bogo, and he deserves the A (something criticized and questioned on this board when it happened if you remember - and not to mention most of you wanted him bought out and run out of town last year too!) but Jack is the star of this team and he will be the C as long as he is here. Skinner is having a great year, but it has a lot to do with playing with Jack. Jack is and should be captain. Lol, I guess back in the old days you haters would have stripped the C from #11 and given it to Dudley cause of the cool headband or maybe even Spinner after he had 2 fights in a game and yelled at somebody. ? Gilbert wasn't captain until very late in his career when the team was not very good, and he got the C because he was a long serving vet. #11 was the best skater to ever where a Sabres sweater but was not captain material. I've had my reservations about Jack ever since he gave up on a season and lamented the lost bonus money because of it. He could certainly mature into a good captain, but he's not there yet. Not unlike Gilbert. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, Weave said: Gilbert wasn't captain until very late in his career when the team was not very good, and he got the C because he was a long serving vet. #11 was the best skater to ever where a Sabres sweater but was not captain material. I've had my reservations about Jack ever since he gave up on a season and lamented the lost bonus money because of it. He could certainly mature into a good captain, but he's not there yet. Not unlike Gilbert. Can you show me where he did this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, dudacek said: Can you show me where he did this? No. It was an end of season interview. It was well discussed here at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Weave said: No. It was an end of season interview. It was well discussed here at the time. I remember lots of discussion on here and in the media about Jack just missing his bonus. I remember Jack's awful, pouting season-ending interview. I don't remember Jack ever personally lamenting his bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 1 minute ago, dudacek said: I remember lots of discussion on here and in the media about Jack just missing his bonus. I remember Jack's awful, pouting season-ending interview. I don't remember Jack ever personally lamenting his bonus. I connected two dots. Sue me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 5 hours ago, inkman said: Can we stop confusing captain with leader? Yep. Gretzky was the Captain of the Oilers, but Mark Messier was the leader of those teams 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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