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freester

How much better would we be with ROR and Kane?

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1 hour ago, freester said:

However the returns on the deals for Kane and ROR have been mediocre.

The Kane trade garnered what the market would pay.  The ROR return is still TBD.  We took on a cap hit which is already off our books, a mediocre center who rolls off after next year, a prospect who is emerging but whose ceiling is not yet clear, and a 1st round pick.  JBot traded a flawed present for future pieces.  I personally would rather see a team developed properly and with the long term in mind, than be a flash in the pan

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1 hour ago, freester said:

Hopeful  some guys from Rochester can have an impact next year

That's what you should expect.  That's the way JBot rolls.

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3 hours ago, Skibum said:

Look at last year's record and that should tell you what you want to know. 

Beat me to it. I am late loging in this morning. Darn client meetings 😉

Not only is the record much better this season, but the Sabres are actually entertaining to watch and are playing much better.

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12 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I'll double check the numbers tomorrow but I think we would be over. 

Botterill hiring Housley currently looks very questionable 

looks to be about $500K over. 

 

Line Forwards Pos  2018-19 
1 Jeff Skinner LW  $    5,725,000.00
Jack Eichel C  $ 10,000,000.00
Sam Reinhart RW  $    3,650,000.00
2 Kane LW  $    7,000,000.00
RO C  $    7,500,000.00
Pominville, Jason RW  $    5,600,000.00
3 Girgensons, Zemgus LW  $    1,600,000.00
Casey Middlestadt C  $       925,000.00
Scott Wilson RW  $    1,050,000.00
4 J. Larsson LW  $    1,475,000.00
Evan Rodriguez C  $       650,000.00
Kyle Okposo RW  $    6,000,000.00
5 M.   Moulson   3,975,000
Cody Hodson   ($458,333)
     
Defense Pos  2018-19 
1 Dahlin D  $       925,000.00
Rasmus Ristolainen D  $    5,600,000.00
2 Scandella D  $    4,000,000.00
Pilut D  $       925,000.00
3 McCabe D  $    1,600,000.00
Zack Bogosian D $5,142,857
4 Beaulieu, Nathan D $2,400,000
Goalies Pos  2018-19 
  Carter Hutton G  $ 2,750,000.00
Linus Uhlmark G 775,000
       
  2017-18 cap  $ 80,059,524.00
    cap #  $  79,500,000.00
       $ (559,524.00)

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I think we'd be much better with O'Reilly...Kane, I loved his game, but he wasn't sticking around here.

O'Reilly would be much happier on this team since it's more competitive. Anybody who thinks this team is better because O'Reilly is gone, is crazy. This team is better because Eichel and Reinhart have taken steps in their development, Skinner is here, the goaltending is improved, the defense with Dahlin is improved, the special teams are better, there's an actual 4th line on most nights that plays well, Bogosian and McCabe are healthy, the defense is scoring goals, there is more depth, Rodrigues has started to break out, and they can win in shootouts and overtime.

Skinner - Eichel - Reinhart
Sheary - O'Reilly - Pominville
Smith - Mittelstadt - Rodrigues
Girgensons - Larsson - Okposo

McCabe - Ristolainen
Dahlin - Bogosian
Scandella - Nelson/Pilut

Ullmark - Hutton

I think that would be a much better team.

(And if Thompson was a player that Botterill really wanted, find another way to get him and put him in Rochester.)

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We'd have one less Tim Hortons and one more legal/civil case... 

 

Move..... On... 

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1 hour ago, Broken Ankles said:

looks to be about $500K over. 

 

Line Forwards Pos  2018-19 
1 Jeff Skinner LW  $    5,725,000.00
Jack Eichel C  $ 10,000,000.00
Sam Reinhart RW  $    3,650,000.00
2 Kane LW  $    7,000,000.00
RO C  $    7,500,000.00
Pominville, Jason RW  $    5,600,000.00
3 Girgensons, Zemgus LW  $    1,600,000.00
Casey Middlestadt C  $       925,000.00
Scott Wilson RW  $    1,050,000.00
4 J. Larsson LW  $    1,475,000.00
Evan Rodriguez C  $       650,000.00
Kyle Okposo RW  $    6,000,000.00
5 M.   Moulson   3,975,000
Cody Hodson   ($458,333)
     
Defense Pos  2018-19 
1 Dahlin D  $       925,000.00
Rasmus Ristolainen D  $    5,600,000.00
2 Scandella D  $    4,000,000.00
Pilut D  $       925,000.00
3 McCabe D  $    1,600,000.00
Zack Bogosian D $5,142,857
4 Beaulieu, Nathan D $2,400,000
Goalies Pos  2018-19 
  Carter Hutton G  $ 2,750,000.00
Linus Uhlmark G 775,000
       
  2017-18 cap  $ 80,059,524.00
    cap #  $  79,500,000.00
       $ (559,524.00)

So the we could probably have afforded all 3 with some minor cap moves. 

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6 hours ago, Drunkard said:

I think the team would definitely be better if we kept O'Reilly and Kane. Kane I'm not so upset about losing thanks to landing Skinner but I wish FXGMJB would get off his kick of trading quarters for a couple nickels and a slug. This horse has been beaten ad nauseam but I would have rather gotten a solid near ready prospect for him then a first round pick and Danny O'Regan. That guy will probably never play more than a dozen games for the Sabres and the pick won't contribute till 2022 or so. That means the return for Kane will yield absolutely zero help to the Sabres until Dahlin's and Mittelstadt's ELCs are both over. 

you don't land a Skinner-like trade very often. JBott is playing this like a pro poker player. He's not going all-in when there's an outside chance of hitting a good hand- he waits until he knows he has "the nuts," as they say.

I think his approach has the makings of building a great, consistent team.

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3 hours ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

We'd have one less Tim Hortons and one more legal/civil case... 

 

Move..... On... 

Don't underestimate this, it helps ROR that he lives in a state where Tim Horton's doesn't have legal standing (presumably, I've never seen on that's not in NY in the US).

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10 minutes ago, erickompositör72 said:

you don't land a Skinner-like trade very often. JBott is playing this like a pro poker player. He's not going all-in when there's an outside chance of hitting a good hand- he waits until he knows he has "the nuts," as they say.

I think his approach has the makings of building a great, consistent team.

Botterill lucked out that Skinner had a full NMC and Buffalo was one of the 2 places he was willing to waive it for and Toronto didn't have the cap space to even get involved after signing Tavares and having Nylander, Matthews, and Marner on the horizon. That's not some shrewd poker move, that's picking up a full house on the flop then managing not to piss your pants with excitement so the other guy folds. Yeah, Carolina could have held out and kept Skinner or waited until the trade deadline so I give him credit for offering them just enough to make the deal, but it's not like he had anyone else to compete against. I give him credit for acquiring him and I hope they re-sign him, but one great trade where the deck is stacked against your opponent doesn't give me all that much confidence in the guy.

Personally, I liked the Skinner and Scandella trades and I hated the Kane and O'Reilly trades. I like the Sheary one as well, but that one seems to be a wash at this point, so I wouldn't really count it as a big plus in his favor. It was worth a shot though.

 

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7 hours ago, Doohickie said:

The Kane trade garnered what the market would pay.  The ROR return is still TBD.  We took on a cap hit which is already off our books, a mediocre center who rolls off after next year, a prospect who is emerging but whose ceiling is not yet clear, and a 1st round pick.  JBot traded a flawed present for future pieces.  I personally would rather see a team developed properly and with the long term in mind, than be a flash in the pan

My feelings exactly. I would add you also have to add to the deal the ability to sign a big money Skinner contract and/or a new FA this summer and still have a good cap situation. When the saved money is spent, the deal can be looked at fully. 

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5 hours ago, Dank Dangleson said:


Sheary - O'Reilly - Pominville
 

Honestly do you think this line would be good at anything other than maybe winning faceoffs, or would ROR just be bitching that he should have better wingers and more ice time instead of Eichel? 

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We might be a lot better with ROR, a little bitter, the same, or maybe even a little worse. These things have too many variables to have any kind of definitive outlook, in my view. The Islanders lost their best player for nothing and they are much better this year. 

🤷‍♂️

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32 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Honestly do you think this line would be good at anything other than maybe winning faceoffs, or would ROR just be bitching that he should have better wingers and more ice time instead of Eichel? 

Lol

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1 hour ago, Thorny said:

We might be a lot better with ROR, a little bitter, the same, or maybe even a little worse. These things have too many variables to have any kind of definitive outlook, in my view. The Islanders lost their best player for nothing and they are much better this year. 

🤷‍♂️

Yes and the goalie we threw away is their starter, leading the league in goals against and save percentage.

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1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

Yes and the goalie we threw away is their starter, leading the league in goals against and save percentage.

You and how many other people predicted exactly that?

I mean other than the usual....."every time we get rid of a player, they become a star".

Edited by MakeSabresGrr8Again

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38 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

You and how many other people predicted exactly that?

I mean other than the usual....."every time we get rid of a player, they become a star".

The point isn’t about how many people predicted it... the point is a veteran GM who has seen it all, and a veteran coach who has dealt with it all... were able to help get him right.

our organization is run by rookies with no experience...

the fans should stop making excuses for Bottsley, just because it helps them believe in an unknown future more. 

Edited by jame

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5 minutes ago, jame said:

The point isn’t about how many people predicted it... the point is a veteran GM who has seen it all, and a veteran coach who has dealt with it all... were able to help get him right.

our organization is run by rookies with no experience...

the fans should stop making excuses for Bottsley, just because it helps them believe in an unknown future more. 

The future is hardly uknown. Some wing talent is coming in the form of Olofsson and Smith, albeit it may be line 2/3 talent. O'Regan looks like a viable 3/4 center. All of these players are skill, not a great deal of size or grit there. So not only do we know what we do have almost ready, we've also just identified what we lack. So there, no excuses, but also, no unknown future.

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2 hours ago, jame said:

The point isn’t about how many people predicted it... the point is a veteran GM who has seen it all, and a veteran coach who has dealt with it all... were able to help get him right.

our organization is run by rookies with no experience...

the fans should stop making excuses for Bottsley, just because it helps them believe in an unknown future more. 

NOPE.

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3 hours ago, jame said:

The point isn’t about how many people predicted it... the point is a veteran GM who has seen it all, and a veteran coach who has dealt with it all... were able to help get him right.

 

How exactly did they do that since you seem to know?

I think it far far more likely Lehner himself saw the writing on the wall when nobody wanted to sign him and he woke up to reality. Islanders took a chance cause they and absolutely nothing to lose.

Doesn't matter, he quit on us and had to go. Our "rookie" GM did exactly the right thing in letting him walk and nobody thought otherwise.

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9 hours ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

You and how many other people predicted exactly that?

I mean other than the usual....."every time we get rid of a player, they become a star".

I didn't see it coming.  I don't think any of us did.

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6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

How exactly did they do that since you seem to know?

I think it far far more likely Lehner himself saw the writing on the wall when nobody wanted to sign him and he woke up to reality. Islanders took a chance cause they and absolutely nothing to lose.

Doesn't matter, he quit on us and had to go. Our "rookie" GM did exactly the right thing in letting him walk and nobody thought otherwise.

Yes our rookie gm was I’ll equipped to get the right wake up call... he could’ve put Lehner on the bus in Rochester.

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Woulda coulda shoulda. Both have talent so in the short term we are better. In the long term they get older and we have no real depth to replace them.

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1 hour ago, jame said:

Yes our rookie gm was I’ll equipped to get the right wake up call... he could’ve put Lehner on the bus in Rochester.

And then you would have complained when he got claimed on waivers. It's no win for you with botterill you absolutely hate him and everything he does is confirmation bias feeding that. 

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