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It pains me to say this but Toronto has done what Terry Pegula promised. They have brought in smart people, found a place for them, spent huge amounts of money on coaches, scouting and front office.

The Sabre’s have guys doing on the job training. Granted, Babcock screwed then by lying to them and using them and Lafontaine turned out to be a little nuts but their back up plan has failed miserably,

The results show. 

 

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Jesus man, why would you start this thread? I swear this board is full of masochists 

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11 minutes ago, tom webster said:

It pains me to say this but Toronto has done what Terry Pegula promised. They have brought in smart people, found a place for them, spent huge amounts of money on coaches, scouting and front office.

The Sabre’s have guys doing on the job training. Granted, Babcock screwed then by lying to them and using them and Lafontaine turned out to be a little nuts but their back up plan has failed miserably,

The results show. 

 

Tom what was the story? 

Babcock verbally agreed to a deal and told  Toronto I really wanted to work for you all along so match it? 

 

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8 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Tom what was the story? 

Babcock verbally agreed to a deal and told  Toronto I really wanted to work for you all along so match it? 

 

 

I'm not sure there's a definitive answer to this, but that's the gist.

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28 minutes ago, tom webster said:

It pains me to say this but Toronto has done what Terry Pegula promised. They have brought in smart people, found a place for them, spent huge amounts of money on coaches, scouting and front office.

The Sabre’s have guys doing on the job training. Granted, Babcock screwed then by lying to them and using them and Lafontaine turned out to be a little nuts but their back up plan has failed miserably,

The results show. 

 

BOTH of the Pegulas' franchises are kind of a mess right now, and for similar reasons: namely, they continue to entrust his scouting and managing operations to new GMs and coaches, without bringing in outside help.  Not that a "Czar" is guaranteed to fix the problem, but you'd think that new owners with zero experience in professional sports might want to pay experienced advisors to help reduce the steep learning curve.  But no, they continue to believe they can do it alone, and continue to entrust green general managers to carry out full rebuilds down to the studs.  Both the Bills and Sabres seem headed toward 3-10 year "rebuilds" ("We're finally doing things the right way, for the long term!") while other franchises completely flame out and rebuild themselves over and over again in the interim, i.e. the Leafs.

It's just not nearly as hard to succeed in either sport as the Pegulas are making it look.

Edited by Cascade Youth
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37 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Jesus man, why would you start this thread? I swear this board is full of masochists 

It's making me very, very happy so far.

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16 minutes ago, Cascade Youth said:

 

It's just not nearly as hard to succeed in either sport as the Pegulas are making it look.

After Pegula bought the Sabres I was happy with what I heard.  Quickly, even before the Sabres decided to tank, I came to conclusion he/they were not good owners.

About the time they bought the Bills, I thought they were pretty bad owners (good people, good at business, but almost clueless about owning a good sports team)

Right about now, I think they are climbing that learning curve.  But that still doesn't mean they are good, maybe approaching 'average'.  And BTW, I'm not only basing this based on my opinion of the individual moves they make..but more the 'whole picture feeling' I get.

Things are 'getting better' with ownership, but they still have a long way to go.

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17 minutes ago, MattPie said:

 

I'm not sure there's a definitive answer to this, but that's the gist.

That's not the gist of the story, that's the gist of a conspiracy theory hatched by jilted lovers.

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1 hour ago, WildCard said:

Jesus man, why would you start this thread? I swear this board is full of masochists 

 

37 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

It's making me very, very happy so far.

The first step in solving the problem, is admitting you have the problem...…………….."And Houston, we have a problem here. The franchise has started to shake, she's started to shimmy and there is loud banging noises. We are venting something in to NHL, it looks like a release of position in the standings."

And I am happy the fans ultimately are coming to this conclusion, as for the organization...……………..they're already in communications blackout on the dark side of the season, like the rest of the Buffalo hockey world, I'm holding my breathe hoping they have a plan to get home.

Edited by Scottysabres
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I personally don't want to hear about the leafs. Still hate them and always will. Not the Sabres fault Tavares didn't have Sabres bed sheets  Not the Sabres fault they won the lottery with their first (and thus only) intentional tank. Can only hope the big contracts (matthews today) will sink them and hope Tampa takes them out this year and then the Muzzin deal will be an asset loss. 

Still think their GM looks like Rachel Maddow.

ap_110802132958.jpg

kyle-dubas.jpg

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It's reverse schadenfreude.  Getting angry over another's success.

Unfortunately, this rings truthful.  Noob owners bring in noob management who hire noob coaches to oversee the most difficult of plans to make work.

What could go wrong?

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The leafs have been trash the Sabres entire existence. During the most recent Sabres “glory days,” the Leafs were trash and have only recently came back to being relevant. They won’t win a cup with Matthews and then it’ll be back to square one. 

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I'm glad we can provide a league for them to enjoy their favorite sport.  

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3 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Tom what was the story? 

Babcock verbally agreed to a deal and told  Toronto I really wanted to work for you all along so match it? 

 

Anyone that was in 716 during The Toronto press conference heard Cliff Benson scream turn that effin liar off so you know the Sabre’s think he mislead them,

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4 hours ago, Cascade Youth said:

BOTH of the Pegulas' franchises are kind of a mess right now, and for similar reasons: namely, they continue to entrust his scouting and managing operations to new GMs and coaches, without bringing in outside help.  Not that a "Czar" is guaranteed to fix the problem, but you'd think that new owners with zero experience in professional sports might want to pay experienced advisors to help reduce the steep learning curve.  But no, they continue to believe they can do it alone, and continue to entrust green general managers to carry out full rebuilds down to the studs.  Both the Bills and Sabres seem headed toward 3-10 year "rebuilds" ("We're finally doing things the right way, for the long term!") while other franchises completely flame out and rebuild themselves over and over again in the interim, i.e. the Leafs.

It's just not nearly as hard to succeed in either sport as the Pegulas are making it look.

Quick question... since this is about the Leafs and you mention them here... when was the last playoff series the Leafs won since they are so good and quick at flaming out and rebuilding in the interim of 3-10 years?

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I don’t really see how that question goes to the point I’m making. The Leafs almost surely will push into the playoffs this season.  There have been multiple teams in both sports that have quickly rebuilt themselves during and much faster than the Bills and Sabres, respectively.  

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27 minutes ago, Cascade Youth said:

I don’t really see how that question goes to the point I’m making. The Leafs almost surely will push into the playoffs this season.  There have been multiple teams in both sports that have quickly rebuilt themselves during and much faster than the Bills and Sabres, respectively.  

obviously, but you have to evaluate each administration seperately. we are in year 2. A lot of things came together for that bunch at the same time. They have been futile for a really long time. I think Murray's era here does rival the Ballard era there in terms of worst ever and if JBot fails maybe you can compare the Pegula era to the Ballard, but not yet. Bills are irrelevant to this. 

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The Leafs have been terrible for 50+ years.

They look good for a regular season team.

Unless they address some pretty glaring problems they will not win in the playoffs.

I have a feeling the window they have set for themselves with  yesterday's signing will not be big enough.

And on top of all that they are The Great Satan!!

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6 hours ago, Cascade Youth said:

I don’t really see how that question goes to the point I’m making. The Leafs almost surely will push into the playoffs this season.  There have been multiple teams in both sports that have quickly rebuilt themselves during and much faster than the Bills and Sabres, respectively.  

Because you are claiming the leafs quickly rebuilt themselves which is 100% false. Since 2005, the Leafs have made the playoffs 3 times. Between 2005 and 2013 they didn't reach them at all. 7 years of no playoffs, followed by a 1st round exits, followed by 3 years of no playoffs, followed by 2 more first round exits. So yes they are good now but they sucked for a long long long time prior. They didn't have some magical fast rebuild, this has been an ongoing thing for at least 5-6 years and you could argue longer. 

So while the Leafs will make the playoffs and probably win a series this year, they did not do it quickly. There are teams that have done it but there are also a lot of teams that have not. Detroit and LA spring to mind (Granted LA is just starting to realize their issues).

Edited by LGR4GM
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1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Because you are claiming the leafs quickly rebuilt themselves which is 100% false. Since 2005, the Leafs have made the playoffs 3 times. Between 2005 and 2013 they didn't reach them at all. 7 years of no playoffs, followed by a 1st round exits, followed by 3 years of no playoffs, followed by 2 more first round exits. So yes they are good now but they sucked for a long long long time prior. They didn't have some magical fast rebuild, this has been an ongoing thing for at least 5-6 years and you could argue longer. 

Nailed it.

Also I find the concept of a Leaves thread on here to be offensive.

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13 hours ago, tom webster said:

Anyone that was in 716 during The Toronto press conference heard Cliff Benson scream turn that effin liar off so you know the Sabre’s think he mislead them,

Just playing devil's advocate:  it's quite possible that Benson (and the other Sabres brass who voiced similar sentiments) were affecting an aggrieved air to deflect possible accountability for not getting Babcock to sign on the dotted line.

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1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

Just playing devil's advocate:  it's quite possible that Benson (and the other Sabres brass who voiced similar sentiments) were affecting an aggrieved air to deflect possible accountability for not getting Babcock to sign on the dotted line.

I hadn’t considered that, but Benson being in a very public location for that press conference surely could have been contrived.  I’m cynical enough to believe it’s possible and maybe even probable.

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4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Because you are claiming the leafs quickly rebuilt themselves which is 100% false. Since 2005, the Leafs have made the playoffs 3 times. Between 2005 and 2013 they didn't reach them at all. 7 years of no playoffs, followed by a 1st round exits, followed by 3 years of no playoffs, followed by 2 more first round exits. So yes they are good now but they sucked for a long long long time prior. They didn't have some magical fast rebuild, this has been an ongoing thing for at least 5-6 years and you could argue longer. 

So while the Leafs will make the playoffs and probably win a series this year, they did not do it quickly. There are teams that have done it but there are also a lot of teams that have not. Detroit and LA spring to mind (Granted LA is just starting to realize their issues).

To be clear, I'm not claiming that the Leafs rebuilt quickly - although they rebuilt more effectively than the Sabres have IMO, and did so during the time that the Pegulas' teams have tanked/bottomed out TWICE.  There are many other teams however, in both sports, that have rebuilt quickly during the Pegulas' tenure.  I could start listing them but I have to go back to work - will try to come back to this later.

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the Leafs, so far have been exciting regular season teams, but have not won squat yet.  With the money they have to spend it might be a smaller window than we think.

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