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Brawndo

Michael Gilbert Resigns

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5 minutes ago, LTS said:

I dunno, I get drunk with my co-workers and I'm pretty sure I've never even encroached on any level of harassment (other than my presence).  It's interesting that I am seeing this right after reading an article about the head of Michigan State resigning after submitting a quote to the news that the victims of Larry Nassar are "still enjoying the spotlight".  

I hate to stereotype, but it seems that if you are an older white dude, you have a heightened probability of also being a disrespectful and distasteful jackhole.

How much of this is because of Kim Pegula's level of influence inside the organization?  If she we weren't holding positions of power and showcasing herself as a more than capable executive I wonder if it would have been more likely to swing the other way.

It's obviously a good thing that it's not. Jackholes like this need to get out of the corporate world and go spend time on their cozy private club golf courses until their end of days. I'm tired of hearing about it and (because I am a white, slightly less younger than them dude) being somewhat associated with them.  

I absolutely attribute it to Kim on the overall. Especially after the Brandon thing. I think that embues the rest of the company with the same mind set, too. That guy didn't call Kim Pegula, he told HR or a superviser/manager and they passed it up the chain, which it would have been just as easy to not do. Good on him, good on them, and good on Kim (and Terry, at least by proxy) for holding people accountable.

1 minute ago, Eleven said:

I haven't been there in a very long time, but it seemed that the bar was pretty much dominated by, umm, "veterans of the tavern"* while the rest of the crowd was younger.

Very proud of PSE's stance on this stuff, though.

 

*You know the type.  Prematurely grey, slumped over, putting a dash of salt into that last draft beer to refresh the suds...

yeah, that'd be my assessment. 22 y/o drunk kids and a handful of old barflies.

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32 minutes ago, sabills said:

If you're at Brickbar after midnight and your over, like, 25, your just asking for trouble. I say that having been there many nights after midnight.

Good job by PSE going hard after this crap. To many companies ignore it or hush it up. That this was taken seriously immediately says a lot.

GIlbert knew precisely why he was going to Brick Bar. He had a room booked back at the Marriott, after all.

Not for nothing: The original report from TBN had a statement from the one (716) server who said something about how she didn't want to say anything to management because she was concerned it would be ignored like it usually is (or as usually is the case -- something like that). It was a fairly vague quote or attribution. It wasn't clear whether she was just saying, "in general," she didn't think she'd be taken seriously (given how the world works, etc.), or whether there were issues with PSE specifically. In any case, that quote or statement from her is no longer in the article.

9 minutes ago, LTS said:

I hate to stereotype, but it seems that if you are an older white dude, you have a heightened probability of also being a disrespectful and distasteful jackhole.

Unchecked, unexamined privilege is a problem.

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10 minutes ago, LTS said:

I dunno, I get drunk with my co-workers and I'm pretty sure I've never even encroached on any level of harassment (other than my presence).  It's interesting that I am seeing this right after reading an article about the head of Michigan State resigning after submitting a quote to the news that the victims of Larry Nassar are "still enjoying the spotlight".  

I hate to stereotype, but it seems that if you are an older white dude, you have a heightened probability of also being a disrespectful and distasteful jackhole.

How much of this is because of Kim Pegula's level of influence inside the organization?  If she we weren't holding positions of power and showcasing herself as a more than capable executive I wonder if it would have been more likely to swing the other way.

It's obviously a good thing that it's not. Jackholes like this need to get out of the corporate world and go spend time on their cozy private club golf courses until their end of days. I'm tired of hearing about it and (because I am a white, slightly less younger than them dude) being somewhat associated with them.  

What in the world does whiteness have to do with this?  Do you think non-whites don’t enagage in this kind of behavior?  (They do, and the stats on, say, rape are appalling.)

More importantly, why is it OK to throw this kind of slur around?  Would you have said the same thing about a different racial or ethnic group?

The question answers itself. 

Not to mention the fact that no one here has any idea what Gilbert did.

 

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2 minutes ago, sabills said:

I absolutely attribute it to Kim on the overall. Especially after the Brandon thing. I think that embues the rest of the company with the same mind set, too. That guy didn't call Kim Pegula, he told HR or a superviser/manager and they passed it up the chain, which it would have been just as easy to not do. Good on him, good on them, and good on Kim (and Terry, at least by proxy) for holding people accountable.

I became disillusioned with Kim Pegula over a lot of the creative output from PSE. I still think that what she finds interesting or compelling is stuff that I largely find uninteresting or tired.

OTOH, her apparent influence in creating a proper workplace environment is impressive. Full marks, there.

2 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

What in the world does whiteness have to do with this?  Do you think non-whites don’t enagage in this kind of behavior?  (They do, and the stats on, say, rape are appalling.)

More importantly, why is it OK to throw this kind of slur around?  Would you have said the same thing about a different racial or ethnic group?

The question answers itself. 

Not to mention the fact that no one here has any idea what Gilbert did.

I swear. That Gillette ad has white dudes all in a tither.

2 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Not to mention the fact that no one here has any idea what Gilbert did.

Sure we do. His boorish and creepy behaviour was described in some detail in the report.

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6 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I swear. That Gillette ad has white dudes all in a tither.

What ad?

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Just now, nfreeman said:

What in the world does whiteness have to do with this?  Do you think non-whites don’t enagage in this kind of behavior?  (They do, and the stats on, say, rape are appalling.)

More importantly, why is it OK to throw this kind of slur around?  Would you have said the same thing about a different racial or ethnic group?

The question answers itself. 

Not to mention the fact that no one here has any idea what Gilbert did.

 

Whiteness has to do with the conversation centering on corporate executives and other people in positions of power abusing their positions to sexually harass others.  We aren't discussing rape here or it would be a different kind of discussion.

Whiteness has to do with it because I am white and I have been associated with their kind of behavior by others.  I don't create the classifications, but I get to live them. Associated meaning "You know how you white corporate guys are..."  to which I have to reply, "I know how some people are, but don't lump me in with those jackholes".

Do you see a lot of articles being posted about non-white corporate executives being accused of sexual harassment?  I don't.  I am merely speaking to that situation and not making commentary on the broad classification of sexual harassment, including rape, that permeates all levels of society.  If society were seeing a rash of reported sexual abuse cases by non-white corporate executives (and as I referred to, let;s say the Michigan State head was not white) then yes.. I would say the same thing.  Because I am limiting my commentary to that specific group.

I hope that answers your question.

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13 minutes ago, Eleven said:

What ad?

It's a new ad that has a very strong, overt #MeToo theme. Riffing off "the best a man can get", I guess -- telling men "look, we all need to be better."

And, from what I can tell, there are a lotta dudes losing their ever-flipping minds over it. In this thread, I was mostly busting chops when I alluded to the ad.

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This is terrible behavior.  They should feel shame.  I hope they do, but they probably just lament the fact that they were watched and actually, by the sounds of it, finally ratted out.

Edited by New Scotland (NS)

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32 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Sure we do. His boorish and creepy behaviour was described in some detail in the report.

Which report?  Was the PSE report published somewhere?

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2 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Which report?  Was the PSE report published somewhere?

There is a Buffalo News article but it even refuses to name the third-party witnesses, which is pretty murky reporting IMO.

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33 minutes ago, LTS said:

Whiteness has to do with the conversation centering on corporate executives and other people in positions of power abusing their positions to sexually harass others.  We aren't discussing rape here or it would be a different kind of discussion.

Whiteness has to do with it because I am white and I have been associated with their kind of behavior by others.  I don't create the classifications, but I get to live them. Associated meaning "You know how you white corporate guys are..."  to which I have to reply, "I know how some people are, but don't lump me in with those jackholes".

Do you see a lot of articles being posted about non-white corporate executives being accused of sexual harassment?  I don't.  I am merely speaking to that situation and not making commentary on the broad classification of sexual harassment, including rape, that permeates all levels of society.  If society were seeing a rash of reported sexual abuse cases by non-white corporate executives (and as I referred to, let;s say the Michigan State head was not white) then yes.. I would say the same thing.  Because I am limiting my commentary to that specific group.

I hope that answers your question.

Thank you for your thoughtful response.  I don't think it really addresses my core point, which is that it is for some reason a substantial portion of the population thinks it's OK to slur white people (especially white men), without appreciating the destructive effects of these slurs and the worldview behind them, but I appreciate the respectful conversation in any event.

As to the bolded question -- I agree that most corp executive sexual harassers are probably white men -- but that is because most corp executives are white men.

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20 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Which report?  Was the PSE report published somewhere?

I'm talking about the news report, which had a fair amount of detail regarding Gilbert's conduct.

20 minutes ago, Eleven said:

There is a Buffalo News article but it even refuses to name the third-party witnesses, which is pretty murky reporting IMO.

Is it? I'm asking. 

If someone says: I'll talk to you about this matter off the record because I don't want to suffer any personal consequences -- does that make the source's content off-limits for a reporter?

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8 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Thank you for your thoughtful response.  I don't think it really addresses my core point, which is that it is for some reason a substantial portion of the population thinks it's OK to slur white people (especially white men), without appreciating the destructive effects of these slurs and the worldview behind them, but I appreciate the respectful conversation in any event.

As to the bolded question -- I agree that most corp executive sexual harassers are probably white men -- but that is because most corp executives are white men.

The last line there is a big one.  Is it a white thing?  Is it a corporate thing?  Is it the combination of the two?  We don't bother to explore questions like this at all today.  Instead we just throw it all immediately on one cause.

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1 hour ago, LTS said:

I hate to stereotype, but it seems that if you are an older white dude, you have a heightened probability of also being a disrespectful and distasteful jackhole.

You hate it, but you did it.

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

Unchecked, unexamined privilege is a problem.

That's funny, too.

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13 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I agree that most corp executive sexual harassers are probably white men -- but that is because most corp executives are white men.

Image result for no shit gif

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4 minutes ago, shrader said:

The last line there is a big one.  Is it a white thing?  Is it a corporate thing?  Is it the combination of the two?  We don't bother to explore questions like this at all today.  Instead we just throw it all immediately on one cause.

It strikes me as utterly non-controversial to say that there's a fairly pervasive and persistent problem in the country with white male executives harassing female colleagues and subordinates. A tale as old as time, maybe.

But Time's Up, motherpluckers.

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Just now, That Aud Smell said:

It strikes me as utterly non-controversial to say that there's a fairly pervasive and persistent problem in the country with white male executives harassing female colleagues and subordinates. A tale as old as time, maybe.

But Time's Up, motherpluckers.

That's different than saying it's a white thing though.  Now maybe it was freeman's questions that sent it down that path, but I don't think he's the only one out there who does follow it down that route.

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16 minutes ago, shrader said:

The last line there is a big one.  Is it a white thing?  Is it a corporate thing?  Is it the combination of the two?  We don't bother to explore questions like this at all today.  Instead we just throw it all immediately on one cause.

Boom goes the dynamite.

 

12 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Image result for no shit gif

Care to elaborate?

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2 minutes ago, darksabre said:

The commentary in this thread is as predictable as the tides.

In every direction too 😄

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10 minutes ago, WildCard said:

In every direction too 😄

Including the great contributions of the last two posts.

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Harassment / exploitation of any kind, most often it is sexual, can only happen when there is a person in a position of power and / or influence over another.

It does not have to be in a business setting, nor does it have to be white males, although often it is.

Bottom line in this case is ... something happened and a white male was compelled to resign over it.

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2 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Harassment / exploitation of any kind, most often it is sexual, can only happen when there is a person in a position of power and / or influence over another.

It does not have to be in a business setting, nor does it have to be white males, although often it is.

Bottom line in this case is ... something happened and a white male was compelled to resign over it.

What if the offender had been a young guy from UB who has a work study job in the library? Does the friend call HR at the university?

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3 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

What if the offender had been a young guy from UB who has a work study job in the library? Does the friend call HR at the university?

I would hope so, yes.

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9 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Harassment / exploitation of any kind, most often it is sexual, can only happen when there is a person in a position of power and / or influence over another.

It does not have to be in a business setting, nor does it have to be white males, although often it is.

Bottom line in this case is ... something happened and a white male was compelled to resign over it.

So if I were to walk into a random bar in some town I've never been to, I'm free to cat call and grab as many butts as possible?

 

Edit: I should take that grabbing part of there.  That one probably goes beyond the label of harassment.

Edited by shrader

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