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I know its unrealistic but if sabres are not in playoff race at trade deadline then we should trade Skinner and resign him as a free agent.  This would allow us to accumulate more assets to shorten the rebuild.

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13 hours ago, freester said:

I know its unrealistic but if sabres are not in playoff race at trade deadline then we should trade Skinner and resign him as a free agent.  This would allow us to accumulate more assets to shorten the rebuild.

IF he would go for that it would leave the Sabres with the most assets.  Problem is, he loses a year off the contract doing that.  So, really don't see a scenario where that's realistic.

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On 1/24/2019 at 10:14 PM, Taro T said:

IF he would go for that it would leave the Sabres with the most assets.  Problem is, he loses a year off the contract doing that.  So, really don't see a scenario where that's realistic.

Untrue, offer him to a team that's going on a cup run. Ask him where he'd wanna be traded to and agree to his UFA contract (spoken of course) before trading him. You're looking out for someone, giving them a huge opportunity to hoist Lord Stanley and get assets. You're not maximizing your return, but you are taking care of your player which is a sign that goes out the the rest of the players about what kind of organization this is to work for. 

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1 hour ago, StuckinFL said:

Untrue, offer him to a team that's going on a cup run. Ask him where he'd wanna be traded to and agree to his UFA contract (spoken of course) before trading him. You're looking out for someone, giving them a huge opportunity to hoist Lord Stanley and get assets. You're not maximizing your return, but you are taking care of your player which is a sign that goes out the the rest of the players about what kind of organization this is to work for. 

And what kind of organization would that be? What, we are now excepting to become a farm team of UFA's for Cup contenders?

I think that sends the absolute wrong message. The concept is to put the Sabres in contention, not other teams.

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And if he hits it off with his new teammates and the team makes a comparable offer, what's to say he doesn't sign with them?  Sign him now, don't play games.

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2 hours ago, Doohickie said:

And if he hits it off with his new teammates and the team makes a comparable offer, what's to say he doesn't sign with them?  Sign him now, don't play games.

Exactly. We have a finisher/sniper for Eichel's LW. Don't let it run down the inner-thigh in a moment of "but we can get such a trade climax". It feels so good when it happens, but then you need to clean up the aftermath.

Edited by Scottysabres
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1 hour ago, StuckinFL said:

Untrue, offer him to a team that's going on a cup run. Ask him where he'd wanna be traded to and agree to his UFA contract (spoken of course) before trading him. You're looking out for someone, giving them a huge opportunity to hoist Lord Stanley and get assets. You're not maximizing your return, but you are taking care of your player which is a sign that goes out the the rest of the players about what kind of organization this is to work for. 

How is that untrue?

IF he signs with Buffalo without getting traded he's getting an 8th year.

Should he be traded 1st & then signs as a FA come July he's getting a 7 year deal.  So, Skinner loses a year under that scenario.  

And, should the Sabres simply sign him, they end up with Skinner.  Should they trade him & then sign him as a FA, they end up with Skinner & whatever assets they got from the team he was effectively loaned to.  Thus, maximizing their assets as they now have added the trade package to what they'd had previously.

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25 minutes ago, Taro T said:

How is that untrue?

IF he signs with Buffalo without getting traded he's getting an 8th year.

Should he be traded 1st & then signs as a FA come July he's getting a 7 year deal.  So, Skinner loses a year under that scenario.  

And, should the Sabres simply sign him, they end up with Skinner.  Should they trade him & then sign him as a FA, they end up with Skinner & whatever assets they got from the team he was effectively loaned to.  Thus, maximizing their assets as they now have added the trade package to what they'd had previously.

Oh I'm not advocating doing this. You had stated that it would be unrealistic. I was playing devil's advocate and stating that this is a scenario that is possible. I certainly would be irritated with it occurring as well. Should've worded it much better. I think the only reason he shouldn't be signed ASAP is if he's asking too much or is showing primadonna behavior behind the scenes. No telling how much the cap is gonna be raised after Seattle joins the party. I'm unsure about giving that 8th year without getting a discount though. Dahlin needs to get paid eventually as well as whomever we plug at 2c. Because this team is going nowhere without an exceptional 2c no matter how stacked the first line is.

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24 minutes ago, StuckinFL said:

Oh I'm not advocating doing this. You had stated that it would be unrealistic. I was playing devil's advocate and stating that this is a scenario that is possible. I certainly would be irritated with it occurring as well. Should've worded it much better. I think the only reason he shouldn't be signed ASAP is if he's asking too much or is showing primadonna behavior behind the scenes. No telling how much the cap is gonna be raised after Seattle joins the party. I'm unsure about giving that 8th year without getting a discount though. Dahlin needs to get paid eventually as well as whomever we plug at 2c. Because this team is going nowhere without an exceptional 2c no matter how stacked the first line is.

Fair enough.

But to clarify, by unrealistic was referring to there being little likelihood that Skinner would go for such a maneuver as he'd lose a year of contract.  (And I do expect the AAV of an 8 year deal will be slightly less than that of a 7 year deal but total $'s will be greater.)

I also doubt that Botterill would risk Skinner getting enamored with the new club even if Skinner were ok with playing Tkachuk for a couple of months.

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And I'd expect Mittelstadt becomes that exceptional 2C.  The question is how long from now does he get there.

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12 minutes ago, Taro T said:

And I'd expect Mittelstadt becomes that exceptional 2C.  The question is how long from now does he get there.

I'm not putting my eggs in that basket yet. I don't care what his age is, I wouldn't even consider him competent as a NHL center yet. He has no business being on the Sabres roster and should be developing in Rochester. We need a 2c that performs at that level consistently if this team is ever going to make the playoffs. 

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3 minutes ago, StuckinFL said:

I'm not putting my eggs in that basket yet. I don't care what his age is, I wouldn't even consider him competent as a NHL center yet. He has no business being on the Sabres roster and should be developing in Rochester. We need a 2c that performs at that level consistently if this team is ever going to make the playoffs. 

I hate when people make it look like it's just Casey. None of our wingers or C's have been good beyond the 1st line(4th line has fulfilled its role). They've been shuffled around to no end and with little results. I'm not sticking up for Casey, just pointing out there are multiple issues that coincide with the teams success or lack of.

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Just now, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

I hate when people make it look like it's just Casey. None of our wingers or C's have been good beyond the 1st line(4th line has fulfilled its role). They've been shuffled around to no end and with little results. I'm not sticking up for Casey, just pointing out there are multiple issues that coincide with the teams success or lack of.

I totally agree. But that's why I said we need an exceptional 2c. An average 2c wouldn't help us enough to carry that weight adequately. An exceptional one just might enough to carry us to the playoffs. And I'm not pinning my future on a hope that Casey is 100% going to become that guy. That's just poor planning for a GM at this point in Casey's development. 

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4 minutes ago, StuckinFL said:

I totally agree. But that's why I said we need an exceptional 2c. An average 2c wouldn't help us enough to carry that weight adequately. An exceptional one just might enough to carry us to the playoffs. And I'm not pinning my future on a hope that Casey is 100% going to become that guy. That's just poor planning for a GM at this point in Casey's development. 

Now that I agree with.

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I haven't been reading along in this thread or any other Skinner threads/discussions. Can someone tell me if there is any opposition to signing Skinner? Any concern about the term/cost? Any concern about his improved production during a contract year? Thank you and have a nice day.

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13 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I haven't been reading along in this thread or any other Skinner threads/discussions. Can someone tell me if there is any opposition to signing Skinner? Any concern about the term/cost? Any concern about his improved production during a contract year? Thank you and have a nice day.

First-time caller?

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1 hour ago, StuckinFL said:

I'm not putting my eggs in that basket yet. I don't care what his age is, I wouldn't even consider him competent as a NHL center yet. He has no business being on the Sabres roster and should be developing in Rochester. We need a 2c that performs at that level consistently if this team is ever going to make the playoffs. 

And the only person here calling more consistently that me for a 2C to be brought in is @GASabresfan.  They absolutely need another guy brought in.  And I expect 2 seasons from now that guy slides down into the 3C role.

Where we disagree is whether Mittelstadt is NHL caliber at present.  I believe he is, but, at the risk of being a broken record, he should be centering a 3rd scoring line getting 4C 5v5 minutes and playing on the PP. (Primarily on PP2, but occassionally on PP1 to change things up.)

He's looked overmatched too often with where he's been slotted, but he was playing good the handful of games he was getting 4C duty.  And, IMHO, playing against other teams' 3rd pairings & 3rd & 4th lines will be better for him long run than dominating AHLers.  The biggest thing he needs to learn offensively is how to pick his times to drive the puck to the phone booth that is the high slot (because that's his go to but it doesn't work much vs NHLers) but that will likely still work too often in the AHL, which is why I want him in the NHL.  I'd be surprised if his ceiling doesn't end up at least Derek Roy, which is very much in line with contending team 2C's.  (Not too many have a Malkin at 2C.)  Anything above that's just gravy.

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56 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I haven't been reading along in this thread or any other Skinner threads/discussions. Can someone tell me if there is any opposition to signing Skinner? Any concern about the term/cost? Any concern about his improved production during a contract year? Thank you and have a nice day.

If he signs with the Sabres 8 year term is a given.  There has been some debate as to his value.  There is also some concern with the contract year production increase. 

I don't think there has been anyone advacating not at least trying to sign him.  Although, that TrueBlue guy (I think it is him) has a Skinner hate on, so he maybe 'that' guy.

I think that covers it and I don't believe you that you have not been following along ... (wink-wink).

Edited by New Scotland (NS)
all the extra letters ...
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27 minutes ago, Taro T said:

And the only person here calling more consistently that me for a 2C to be brought in is @GASabresfan. 

 

I feel slighted.

#notreally

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1 hour ago, dudacek said:

First-time caller?

Longtime caller, first-time listener.

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3 hours ago, StuckinFL said:

I totally agree. But that's why I said we need an exceptional 2c. An average 2c wouldn't help us enough to carry that weight adequately. An exceptional one just might enough to carry us to the playoffs. And I'm not pinning my future on a hope that Casey is 100% going to become that guy. That's just poor planning for a GM at this point in Casey's development. 

And I don't see it helping his development by dropping him down a line with even crappier wingers. I think he has been handled wrong from the beginning. That could be Casey's fault by giving everyone higher expectations with his 6 game stint last year. 

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I personally wouldn't go above 8x8 for anything but Dahlin or an exceptional 2C, but I have a feeling that JBot is going to do 8.5x8 for Skinner. Where this scares me is if this is his career year and he only sniffs 30 goals the next 3 years and then plummets after that. Or worse, he turns into another Okposo next yeat and we're stuck and doomed with those contracts and can't field a competitive team because of 2 horrendous contracts. I'd be much more comfortable gaming on Skinner if Okposo wasn't such a waste of cap space. 

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3 minutes ago, StuckinFL said:

I personally wouldn't go above 8x8 for anything but Dahlin or an exceptional 2C, but I have a feeling that JBot is going to do 8.5x8 for Skinner. Where this scares me is if this is his career year and he only sniffs 30 goals the next 3 years and then plummets after that. Or worse, he turns into another Okposo next yeat and we're stuck and doomed with those contracts and can't field a competitive team because of 2 horrendous contracts. I'd be much more comfortable gaming on Skinner if Okposo wasn't such a waste of cap space. 

Skinner and Okposo have very little in common once you consider their situations on the teams they played for prior to buffalo and their style of play. Okposo produced on the island playing with one of the best centers in the NHL, and then came to Buffalo where he was expected to produce in a similar manner without the benefit of John Tavares (who is also responsible for Matt Moulson and his contract). Skinner was the guy in Carolina and drove the play every single night and produced. This is his first season playing with a competent center and is continuing to bring his play from Carolina and then some. Skinner has always been a stud, Okposo was a stud with JT. There are plenty of examples in the NHL of chemistry with between certain centers and wingers (think Crosby), that winter getting too large of a contract because of that production, and then never living up to his contract. That’s not the case with Skinner. The only real concern there should be head issues.

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4 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

I haven't been reading along in this thread or any other Skinner threads/discussions. Can someone tell me if there is any opposition to signing Skinner? Any concern about the term/cost? Any concern about his improved production during a contract year? Thank you and have a nice day.

No real disagreements on contract stuff. Everyone is bored with the lack of breaking news. To pass the time some are talking about backroom, verbal, casting couch deals involving trading Skinner then getting him back, and then howling at the moon. 

Sign Skinner and be done with it. I think someone else said something about stuff running down the leg. Not sure how that fits into the deal but if it gets Skinner signed I’m sure JBot will take one for the team.

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