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Jbot Do Something Already - 4 Saving the Playoffs Edition

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7 minutes ago, Thorny said:

That's key, but as a Jets fan you'll know how much that first playoff experience helped that young team learn, even if they took a step back the following year.

It's about getting in. 

They got blown out 4-0. Last year's playoffs were much more important. The last GM traded away a lot of the cupboard stock and JBot didn't have much to start with. Staying young and having ELCs is improtant. The Jets are the 4th youngest team in the league still.

To the poster that said Staal won't get a 1st...you do know he has scored 70 goals and 71 assists in the last two seasons? Playing on the Wild? He'll get a 1st +.

 

 

Edited by Ducky

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9 hours ago, LTS said:

It's a good post with a lot of good thought.  It's just not going to happen.  It's not what this season was about and it never was.  It was about growing the team and resetting the culture to prepare for the following season.

The early success certainly upped the fans excitement level and expectations.  Going in on trying to upgrade the team this year would be foolish in my opinion. I am confident that if there is a good deal out there that aligns with the plan they have for this team they will take it.  However, I don't think there's going to be a move that attempts to salvage a playoff spot just to make the playoffs.  the move will have to align with the plan for next year, not just this year.

What I am happy about is seeing what this team can do, but never expected to see them do it throughout the season.  Tempered enthusiasm and expectations.

 

This franchise seemingly could stick the bolded above the players dressing room and be done with it. 

48 minutes ago, Ducky said:

They got blown out 4-0. Last year's playoffs were much more important. The last GM traded away a lot of the cupboard stock and JBot didn't have much to start with.

To the poster that said Staal won't get a 1st...you do know he has scored 70 goals and 71 assists in the last two seasons? Playing on the Wild? He'll get a 1st +.

There is no chance their young core (which was already there for that playoff exit) didn't benefit from that experience, especially considering their preparedness the following appearance. The players have said as much.

Just to reference the bolded, they did get blown out with 4 straight losses last playoffs, too. Which was really, really fun to watch.

Edited by Thorny

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I think the plan is to sign a major free agent preferably Matt Duchenne. Resign Skinner and keep the draft picks. Then bribe Seattle into taking Okposo contract in the expansion draft next year. 

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16 minutes ago, Ducky said:

They got blown out 4-0. Last year's playoffs were much more important. The last GM traded away a lot of the cupboard stock and JBot didn't have much to start with. Staying young and having ELCs is improtant. The Jets are the 4th youngest team in the league still.

To the poster that said Staal won't get a 1st...you do know he has scored 70 goals and 71 assists in the last two seasons? Playing on the Wild? He'll get a 1st +.

 

 

With their aging players (Wheeler, Little, Byfuglien) signed to new long term deals, with many of their younger players coming up for new deals (Laine, Connor, Trouba, etc). Schiefele is on a good contract.

It'll be interesting to see how/if they can manage. They effectively became a win now team with those Wheeler and Little deals, we'll see if they can maximize their window.

Edited by Thorny

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Just now, Thorny said:

With their aging players (Wheeler, Little, Byfuglien) signed to new long term deals, with many young players coming up for new deals (Laine, Connor, etc)

It'll be interesting to see how/if they can manage. 

I think Chevy is one of best GMs around. I think Tyler Myers gets moved.   They’ll be fine. They don’t have any Okposo contracts on the books

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8 minutes ago, freester said:

I think Chevy is one of best GMs around. I think Tyler Myers gets moved.   They’ll be fine. They don’t have any Okposo contracts on the books

Really? Little's contract is already basically there.

He's making 5.3 million, and has 6 more points (and one less goal) on a vastly deeper offensively Jets team. 5 years left after this one, Okposo's has 4. Little is 31, KO 30.

Wheeler is going to be making 8.25 until he's 38. That contract that kicks in when he turns 33 might be perfectly fine, it might be ok, but there's a shot it's a disaster, too. 

Edited by Thorny

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6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Really? Little's contract is already basically there.

He's making 5.3 million, and has 6 more points (and one less goal) on a vastly deeper offensively Jets team. 5 years left after this one, Okposo's has 4. Little is 31, KO 30.

I’ll give you the contracts are comparable, the difference is the Jets are competing now for a cup and he’s an important piece whereas we’re nowhere near ready to compete (2-3 years away) and Okposos contract is just an albatross preventing us from acquiring talent to compete. 

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5 minutes ago, freester said:

I’ll give you the contracts are comparable, the difference is the Jets are competing now for a cup and he’s an important piece whereas we’re nowhere near ready to compete (2-3 years away) and Okposos contract is just an albatross preventing us from acquiring talent to compete. 

I agree. This is why I mentioned that the Jets effectively became a win now team with those deals. They are all fine and dandy, but if they don't win a cup in the next 2-3 years, it's not going to get any easier.

---

Speaking of Myers, that "best trade ever!" chant Jets fans levied on the Sabres and Kane for a few years after that trade isn't looking too smart, now. What do they have to show for it? Armia gone for nothing. Lemieux an afterthought. Stafford a distant memory. Looking to unload Myers. So they got a 1st, who turned into Roslovic, who's plateaued this season so far with 9 points in 40 games (14 in 31 last season). 

We got a first for Kane. And Bogosian.

"Best trade ever!" it was not. 

Edited by Thorny
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Kunitz, Chris

Toews, Jonathan ($1,500,000 retained)

Sikura, Tyler

2020 3rd round pick (CHI)

2019 4th round pick (BOS)

for

Sobotka, Vladimír

O'Regan, Danny

Okposo, Kyle

2019 1st round pick (SJS)

 

This is what I've come up with for that Toews idea

 

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9 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I agree. This is why I mentioned that the Jets effectively became a win now team with those deals. They are all fine and dandy, but if they don't win a cup in the next 2-3 years, it's not going to get any easier.

---

Speaking of Myers, that "best trade ever!" chant Jets fans levied on the Sabres and Kane for a few years after that trade isn't looking too smart, now. What do they have to show for it? Armia gone for nothing. Lemieux an afterthought. Stafford a distant memory. Looking to unload Myers. So they got a 1st, who turned into Roslovic, who's plateaued this season so far with 9 points in 40 games (14 in 31 last season). 

We got a first for Kane. And Bogosian.

"Best trade ever!" it was not. 

Had Kane not had his few off the ice incidents, and had Bogo been healthy, the trade would have been a huge win for us. 

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6 minutes ago, freester said:

Had Kane not had his few off the ice incidents, and had Bogo been healthy, the trade would have been a huge win for us. 

Yup. I mean it's not like the Sabres made out like bandits, either. But believe me the rhetoric around here in Winnipeg was, quite literally (the actual meaning of the word) that the deal was the hockey steal of the century. Got a little tiring after a while.

People really hated Kane here and by how much it still comes up, still do. 

Edited by Thorny

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2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

No he won't.  We traded Kane for a conditional 2nd, an AHLer and a 4th.  We acquired Skinner for a middle prospect, a 2nd, a 3rd and a 6th.  These guys are in their prime with years left ahead of them. No way Staal gets a 1st for a 34 year old player.  Not happening.  

So I should be waiting on a XMas card?  Don't be torn.  This is one of the few time with the right value move we can have our cake and eat it too.  Trade for a Staal or Johansson and you keep the 4 picks, protect Mitts this season, improve your center play and have no long term commitment.  Perfect.  Get a Coyle or Couterier and it will cost you one of the firsts, but like Skinner you get a guy in his prime that truly enhances the team long-term as well as short.  I'd love to see Couterier step in behind Eichel.  

If Jbot continues to do nothing, I hope PH keeps trying different lineup combos.  Maybe even put Sam back at center and try Mitts as jack's RW to try to get him going.

Pretty sure we got a conditional 1st round pick for Kane.

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3 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Pretty sure we got a conditional 1st round pick for Kane.

I remember this being a thing at the time. It was reported as a conditional first, but I think technically it should have been listed as a conditional 2nd, as the default, "no conditions met" result would have been a 2nd rounder.

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1 minute ago, Thorny said:

I remember this being a thing at the time. It was reported as a conditional first, but I think technically it should have been listed as a conditional 2nd, as the default, "no conditions met" result would have been a 2nd rounder.

But he did sign with them so it ended up being a 1st, no?

(I'm genuinely asking)

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2 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Pretty sure we got a conditional 1st round pick for Kane.

We received a guaranteed 2nd that had two conditions for it to become a 1st.  Either SJ had to win the Cup or re-sign Kane.  Fortunately SJ re-signed Kane, but at the time of the trade Kane was likely to test the FA market. 

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Just now, SwampD said:

But he did sign with them so it ended up being a 1st, no?

(I'm genuinely asking)

Oh yes it's definitely a 1st now, protected. 1st next year unprotected, if deferred this year. 

Can't speak for him but he was probably evaluating from the perspective of when the trade was made. 

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3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

We received a guaranteed 2nd that had two conditions for it to become a 1st.  Either SJ had to win the Cup or re-sign Kane.  Fortunately SJ re-signed Kane, but at the time of the trade Kane was likely to test the FA market. 

But if Skinner was signed longer term, don't you think it would have taken a 1st to get him. I do.

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Just now, SwampD said:

But if Skinner was signed longer term, don't you think it would have taken a 1st to get him. I do.

But the point of discussing Staal is that he is a UFA, like Kane and Skinner, but no longer in his prime.  Therefore no way he commands a 1st now or at the deadline.  

Yes, guys like Couterier and Coyle, who are under reasonable contracts and in their prime will certainly command a 1st and more.

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1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

But the point of discussing Staal is that he is a UFA, like Kane and Skinner, but no longer in his prime.  Therefore no way he commands a 1st now or at the deadline.  

Yes, guys like Couterier and Coyle, who are under reasonable contracts and in their prime will certainly command a 1st and more.

You sold me. I'm in on Staal. Won't have to give up too much and would fill the hole left by Berglund,… quitter. (hi LTS)

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Just now, SwampD said:

You sold me. I'm in on Staal. Won't have to give up too much and would fill the hole left by Berglund,… quitter. (hi LTS)

Quitter is an understatement.  

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8 hours ago, Taro T said:

People also seem to be underestimating how big of a hole Berglund flaming out created.

Mittelstadt was pencilled in at 2C & Berglund at 3C and both IMHO failed their auditions for those roles.  

Thread worthy? How much fault can be laid at the GM's feet specifically for this transgression? It's always risky to make judgments on a season before it's finished, but with it being the half way point, it would seem to be a subject worth breaching. 

If some of us here are even now getting hesitant about penciling Casey in as 2C long-term, what does that say that Botterill had him there from game 1? Is it a strike? A big strike? Not a strike at all? Too soon to say?

For my part I still have full confidence in Casey as a 2C long-term. But there's still the issue of how his season was handled, and the role he was placed in. 

The Berglund side has already been pretty well covered within the context of O'Reilly discussion. 

Edited by Thorny

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59 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Thread worthy? How much fault can be laid at the GM's feet specifically for this transgression? It's always risky to make judgments on a season before it's finished, but with it being the half way point, it would seem to be a subject worth breaching. 

If some of us here are even now getting hesitant about penciling Casey in as 2C long-term, what does that say that Botterill had him there from game 1? Is it a strike? A big strike? Not a strike at all? Too soon to say?

For my part I still have full confidence in Casey as a 2C long-term. But there's still the issue of how his season was handled, and the role he was placed in. 

The Berglund side has already been pretty well covered within the context of O'Reilly discussion. 

If you wanted to start a thread, expect it would lead to an interesting discussion.

Though Mittelstadt was pencilled in there on Day 1, pretty sure it was simply as in it was his job to lose.  Pretty sure there wasn't an expectation that Casey would win the job (or even necessarily hold onto it), but considering he was (& still is) the future of that position, he was given the opportunity to show he should keep it.  And had Berglund been reasonable in that role, he would've taken it.  He wasn't.

Really believe that in 2 years, Mittelstadt will begin to be useful in that 2C role.  And expect he'll grow into it as a very solid option.  They still though will need to have a better answer for it next year.  Might as well try to get it now if it can be had for only reasonably more than what it'll cost this off-season.

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Serious question:  why would Philly trade Couturier?  He's still pretty young, he's good and he's on a good contract.

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7 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Serious question:  why would Philly trade Couturier?  He's still pretty young, he's good and he's on a good contract.

I agree.  However he continues to appear in the trade rumors for some reason.  Maybe they want to tank and having a player of his caliber on the roster would prevent it. 🙂 

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2 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Serious question:  why would Philly trade Couturier?  He's still pretty young, he's good and he's on a good contract.

I suspect at this stage with a new GM Philly will trade of all they can, but imo Coutourier is likely one of only a few they'd hang on to. More likely they move Giroux. 

Simmons is an UFA think, if you want one addition from them for a playoff run he'd be my choice. Skinner-Eichel-Simmons would be a pretty formidable force to deal with and it might help the PP too, not to mention physicality we lack.

But I really don't want JBot to give up much of anything in the youth department or high picks. I think his primary concern might be can he sign Skinner. To me that's an elephant in the room. I have to think Carolina let him go for what they did knowing he'd want more than they were willing to pay. With the success this year his price might be through the roof. If he offers him a max contract prior to the deadline and he turns it down, then what? If anything keeps JBot up at night it's probably that. 

 

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