Jbot Do Something Already - 4 Saving the Playoffs Edition

[Brawndo]

2 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Would you trade San Jose's 1st rounder for Duchene, maybe include a Mid Level prospect. Knowing that he will not re-sign with Buffalo.

 

 

 

 

No 

[Mustache of God]

4 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Would you trade San Jose's 1st rounder for Duchene, maybe include a Mid Level prospect. Knowing that he will not re-sign with Buffalo.

 

 

 

 

Only if it was a sign & trade but that goes against the conditions of your original statement, so no flippin' way.

[Gatorman0519]

We have the potential to easily fall to the 7th or 8th from the bottom at this rate.  Our lineup is BAAAADDDDD.  We by sucking out the second half of the season, which seems likely, could easily get within picking one of the top 10 players in the draft.  Maybe another lucky lottery draw could speed up our future like what happened to Carolina? 

[Thorny]

51 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Would you trade San Jose's 1st rounder for Duchene, maybe include a Mid Level prospect. Knowing that he will not re-sign with Buffalo.

 

 

 

 

No, not with these outlined terms. 

If I am allowed to introduce a similar hypothetical to the one you did, in bold, and say we'd give up just that late 1st, knowing it was guaranteed to get us into the playoffs this season, somehow....I'd be tempted to say yes. 

But this is all hypothetical, of course. WIthout a realistic guarantee of either, I'd say it's too risky to deal that 1st for a rental, even if it's a late one. 

Edited January 16, 2019 by Thorny

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Crusader1969 said:

Would you trade San Jose's 1st rounder for Duchene, maybe include a Mid Level prospect. Knowing that he will not re-sign with Buffalo.

 

 

 

 

No.  Not even if he might re-sign.  (Of course, have never been a fan of his though he is a good player.)

[GASabresIUFAN]

I’d do a conditional 1st, similar to what we got for Kane

For example, I trade our 2nd in 2020 to OTT with 2 possible conditions where it will become SJ’s 1st in 2019. 1) If we make the Conference finals or 2) He re-signs with the Sabres, but the trade must happen before Jan 23rd.  

So trade would look like Duchene for a conditional 2nd, Sobatka (or Baloo) and a medium prospect (Borgen or Davidsson).

I’d trade SJ’s 1st or our 1st in 2020 plus 2 other assets for Couterier. He’d be awesome here.  

Edited January 17, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[GASabresIUFAN]

https://buffalonews.com/2019/01/21/buffalo-sabres-nhl-phil-housley-jason-botterill/

When even Harrington can figure it out, it must be obvious that something needs to be done now vs at the deadline.

I agree to get rid of the unproductive depth and start giving he kids a shot.  We have the worst record in the NHL over the last 23 games.  The kids can’t be worse then what we are seeing right now.

I think we all agree that Scandella is not having the season this year he did last.  We have seen this record before (Bogo).  I wrote months ago he should be traded this coming off-season.  I have zero problem with accelerating that move.  Baloo also.  

Still none of that will completely fix the problems.  We need a 2nd line center.  We need better play in our zone.  We need to win more faceoffs and improve our PP.  I’m not sure that this is all solvable now, but certainly a 2nd line center and a defensive D can be acquired.

Edited January 22, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

https://buffalonews.com/2019/01/21/buffalo-sabres-nhl-phil-housley-jason-botterill/

When even Harrington can figure it out, it must be obvious that something needs to be done now vs at the deadline.

I agree to get rid of the unproductive depth and start giving he kids a shot.  We have the worst record in the NHL over the last 23 games.  The kids can’t be worse then what we are seeing right now.

I think we all agree that Scandella is not having the season this year he did last.  We have seen this record before (Bogo).  I wrote months ago he should be traded this coming off-season.  I have zero problem with accelerating that move.  Baloo also.  

Still none of that will fix the problems.  We need a 2nd line center.  We need better play in our zone.  We need to win more faceoffs and improve our PP.  I’m not sure that this is all solvable now, but certainly a 2nd line center and a defensive D can be acquired.

1) If Harrington is on board with it, then it's probably the wrong thing to do.

2) To "fix" all the "problems" will need time and a 2C will not fix enough to worry about it right now. However, I'm not against getting a 2C or making a move (or more)if the right opportunity comes along. Whether it's for a playoff run or an adjustment for the future. 

3) there is too much work to be done still to believe it's worth while to desperately run off course at this time. I"m hoping JBot knows what he's doing and does what's best for the team, and not what we would "like" to see just to satisfy us temporarily. The wrong move could actually set us back and we could become Edmonton or others that are up and down every year or picking 1st for years.

[Carmel Corn]

There are a few valid points in Harrington's article about certain players and team numbers, so I'll give him that.  I don't agree with him that it's all about making the playoffs.  I am also not advocating another tank year either, as this team is clearly better than last year's squad.  The keys moves needed however will not happen until the off-season.

More and different types of players are needed to make Buffalo a serious contender.  A good 2C right now may help get us into the playoffs, but I seriously doubt this team's very SOFT makeup will compete well during a playoff grind.  The team lacks toughness in addition to some of the other deficiencies noted.  This team will not make significant changes before the deadline and we will fall short of Harrington's objective.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

1) If Harrington is on board with it, then it's probably the wrong thing to do.

2) To "fix" all the "problems" will need time and a 2C will not fix enough to worry about it right now. However, I'm not against getting a 2C or making a move (or more)if the right opportunity comes along. Whether it's for a playoff run or an adjustment for the future. 

3) there is too much work to be done still to believe it's worth while to desperately run off course at this time. I"m hoping JBot knows what he's doing and does what's best for the team, and not what we would "like" to see just to satisfy us temporarily. The wrong move could actually set us back and we could become Edmonton or others that are up and down every year or picking 1st for years.

Well, time will definitely help.  When they are old enough to drink legallyin this country, Mittelstadt & Dahlin will be large parts of the solution.  Thingis, even when Mittelstadtis the 2C because he's earnedit, not simply out of necessity, they will then need a 3C.  (As in 3rd scoring line C, rather than shutdown C.)  Might as well get that ST 2C/LT 3C now as the need is here now & will remain a need in the coming season.  

Being able to give Sheary & Thompson a useful C and allowing Mittelstadt to get easy matchups with either Rodrigues & Pominville or Sobotka or a couple of deserving Amerks would significantly upgrade the entire forward corps.

It would also help the D as typically the other team's top line would be facing Larsson or Eichel, but the new guy's line wouldn't necessarily get crushed the few times it goes against that top line.

And the fear of the wrong move shouldn't be a limiting factor.  Botterill could just as easily screw up during the off-season as he could now.  (He also could hit a home run now.)  Though, should he not a make move during this season, we know the lineup hasn't been optimized as there is a gaping hole at 2C & about $4MM worth of nominal salary that is available to help try to fill that spot that wasn't available in November.

[dudacek]

On 1/15/2019 at 5:52 AM, LGR4GM said:

I missed the 6th but the rest is correct. That is what we currently have. We currently do not have a 4th round pick. 

2 firsts, 1 third, no fourth, 2 sixths, and a seventh. We have 6 picks. 

Decent chance we have three firsts this year. Blues are picking 7th at the moment but are only 2 back of the Rangers for 11th. If they pick outside the top 10 the pick is ours.

[Ducky]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Decent chance we have three firsts this year. Blues are picking 7th at the moment but are only 2 back of the Rangers for 11th. If they pick outside the top 10 the pick is ours.

Hold on to those picks and draft wisely. Give JBot time to build his team and get rid of some contracts.

Posters here won't like this but the best thing (long term) the Sabres could do this year is finish low and get another quality player in the draft and don't let those picks play until they are ready is another thing some teams do with youngsters. Some players will have a lot of success in the NHL but it doesn't have to be the year or year after they are drafted.

Give JBot time to build his team and get rid of some contracts and I think the Sabres are contenders in 2-3 more years.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Ducky

[Radar]

4 minutes ago, Ducky said:

Hold on to those picks and draft wisely. Give JBot time to build his team and get rid of some contracts.

Posters here won't like this but the best thing (long term) the Sabres could do this year is finish low and get another quality player in the draft and don't let those picks play until they are ready is another thing some teams do with youngsters. Some players will have a lot of success in the NHL but it doesn't have to be the year or year after they are drafted.

Give JBot time to build his team and get rid of some contracts and I think the Sabres are contenders in 2-3 more years.

Sounds sensible. Only thing is some of us fans are getting up in age and two years becomes three and three becomes four. If I'm 20-60 yrs this is easier to accept.

[PerreaultForever]

On 1/17/2019 at 10:39 AM, GASabresIUFAN said:

I’d trade SJ’s 1st or our 1st in 2020 plus 2 other assets for Couterier. He’d be awesome here.  

I would too, but it ain't going to happen. Philly won't be moving him anywhere. 

14 minutes ago, Ducky said:

Hold on to those picks and draft wisely. Give JBot time to build his team and get rid of some contracts.

Posters here won't like this but the best thing (long term) the Sabres could do this year is finish low and get another quality player in the draft and don't let those picks play until they are ready is another thing some teams do with youngsters. Some players will have a lot of success in the NHL but it doesn't have to be the year or year after they are drafted.

Give JBot time to build his team and get rid of some contracts and I think the Sabres are contenders in 2-3 more years.

and that seems to be the plan, but if Skinner won't sign before the deadline what then? We get nothing for him we end the season worse than we were before. The entire thing forward hinges on that signing or non signing.

8 minutes ago, Radar said:

Sounds sensible. Only thing is some of us fans are getting up in age and two years becomes three and three becomes four. If I'm 20-60 yrs this is easier to accept.

Yup, fully agree, but also old enough to know it isn't going to be easy. Only way to move forward in a cap league is really good drafting and that is going to take time. Look at Toronto, after the money they gave Tavares and now wasted on Nylander, they are going to have a big issue with Marner and if they pay him big they got nothing left to pay a blueline. Tampa has to win now or lose part of that roster. The window closes really fast if you don't manage the cap. 

So to get free agents to add to your roster you need to 1) build an organization that people want to come to   and 2) spend wisely on younger players and roles players who over achieve in a new system. The star power has to come from your draft. That takes as long as it takes and you hope your gm and scouts get it right or get lucky.

 

[SwampD]

22 minutes ago, Ducky said:

Hold on to those picks and draft wisely. Give JBot time to build his team and get rid of some contracts.

Posters here won't like this but the best thing (long term) the Sabres could do this year is finish low and get another quality player in the draft and don't let those picks play until they are ready is another thing some teams do with youngsters. Some players will have a lot of success in the NHL but it doesn't have to be the year or year after they are drafted.

Give JBot time to build his team and get rid of some contracts and I think the Sabres are contenders in 2-3 more years.

It took less time to build the Great Pyramids.

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

Well, time will definitely help.  When they are old enough to drink legallyin this country, Mittelstadt & Dahlin will be large parts of the solution.  Thingis, even when Mittelstadtis the 2C because he's earnedit, not simply out of necessity, they will then need a 3C.  (As in 3rd scoring line C, rather than shutdown C.)  Might as well get that ST 2C/LT 3C now as the need is here now & will remain a need in the coming season.  

Being able to give Sheary & Thompson a useful C and allowing Mittelstadt to get easy matchups with either Rodrigues & Pominville or Sobotka or a couple of deserving Amerks would significantly upgrade the entire forward corps.

It would also help the D as typically the other team's top line would be facing Larsson or Eichel, but the new guy's line wouldn't necessarily get crushed the few times it goes against that top line.

And the fear of the wrong move shouldn't be a limiting factor.  Botterill could just as easily screw up during the off-season as he could now.  (He also could hit a home run now.)  Though, should he not a make move during this season, we know the lineup hasn't been optimized as there is a gaping hole at 2C & about $4MM worth of nominal salary that is available to help try to fill that spot that wasn't available in November.

You can build long term and help the team now.  These aren’t mutually exclusive events.  The Skinner is an excellent example of both.  Jbot has the ammo to do both.  We need help to get back into contention this season, but getting that help shouldn’t cost an arm and a leg nor should it keep us from drafting and developing. 

We were never going to solve all our issues this season but that doesn’t mean we should let a potential playoff opportunity go by the wayside.  Harrington is correct that these guys need a taste of the playoffs.  Ask Evander what it did for him.  

We add the right two pieces and I think you’ll see things fall into place.  Remember we traded a scoring winger in his prime to get SJ’s 1st.  Would it really be a tragedy to parlay that late 1st rd pick into a good center?

PS.  During Jbots tenure Pitt often found long term solutions during the trade deadline.  They acquired guys like Kunitz, Hagelin, Neal and Niskanen were all acquired at or near the deadline.  

Edited January 22, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[Samson's Flow]

59 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

You can build long term and help the team now.  These aren’t mutually exclusive events.  The Skinner is an excellent example of both.  Jbot has the ammo to do both.  We need help to get back into contention this season, but getting that help shouldn’t cost an arm and a leg nor should it keep us from drafting and developing. 

We were never going to solve all our issues this season but that doesn’t mean we should let a potential playoff opportunity go by the wayside.  Harrington is correct that these guys need a taste of the playoffs.  Ask Evander what it did for him.  

We add the right two pieces and I think you’ll see things fall into place.  Remember we traded a scoring winger in his prime to get SJ’s 1st.  Would it really be a tragedy to parlay that late 1st rd pick into a good center?

PS.  During Jbots tenure Pitt often found long term solutions during the trade deadline.  They acquired guys like Kunitz, Hagelin, Neal and Niskanen were all acquired at or near the deadline.  

This is good perspective. I will say that those Pittsburgh teams were a little further along in their contention window and seemed to be buyers every year. I don't know if we are obvious buyers this year yet.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Samson's Flow
Bolding for clarity

[Scottysabres]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

You can build long term and help the team now.  These aren’t mutually exclusive events.  The Skinner is an excellent example of both.  Jbot has the ammo to do both.  We need help to get back into contention this season, but getting that help shouldn’t cost an arm and a leg nor should it keep us from drafting and developing. 

We were never going to solve all our issues this season but that doesn’t mean we should let a potential playoff opportunity go by the wayside.  Harrington is correct that these guys need a taste of the playoffs.  Ask Evander what it did for him.  

We add the right two pieces and I think you’ll see things fall into place.  Remember we traded a scoring winger in his prime to get SJ’s 1st.  Would it really be a tragedy to parlay that late 1st rd pick into a good center?

PS.  During Jbots tenure Pitt often found long term solutions during the trade deadline.  They acquired guys like Kunitz, Hagelin, Neal and Niskanen were all acquired at or near the deadline.  

This sounds reasonable.

A couple of questions. Given the current cap situation, is there a limitation on what Botterill can bring in, both in term and amount of players? For example, you mention adding the right "2" pieces. Ok, with a few million dollars, how does that work? Are we talking about 1 established vet and 1 ELC? Or two 2 million dollar contracts? If so, 2 mil doesn't seem like a viable number for an established player that can make an immediate and long term impact except if your name is Rickard Rakell, then I can see where that fits.

So who could be brought in to both secure a run to the playoffs, have term to help beyond this years run to the playoffs and have an "affordable" contract?

[GASabresIUFAN]

35 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

This sounds reasonable.

A couple of questions. Given the current cap situation, is there a limitation on what Botterill can bring in, both in term and amount of players? For example, you mention adding the right "2" pieces. Ok, with a few million dollars, how does that work? Are we talking about 1 established vet and 1 ELC? Or two 2 million dollar contracts? If so, 2 mil doesn't seem like a viable number for an established player that can make an immediate and long term impact except if your name is Rickard Rakell, then I can see where that fits.

So who could be brought in to both secure a run to the playoffs, have term to help beyond this years run to the playoffs and have an "affordable" contract?

Cap space is a relative number.  When you get to the deadline only about 25% of a players seasonal cap hit remains.  For example if we trade Scandella at deadline, his remaining cap hit will only be about $1 mill.  So teams with $1 mill or more of actual cap space left can bring him in.  

To make the calculation easier go look at capfriendly's "Projected Cap Space."  This is how much under the cap the Sabres will be at season's end if the current roster remains unchanged.  So take this numbers ($3.25 million) multiply it by 4 and that will give the size of the contracts ($ from the start of the season) we can take on at the deadline without dumping someone on the roster.

So the Sabres deadline cap number is about $13 million.  For example, if we acquired Duchene from the Sens for picks and prospects, his acquisition would eat up $6 mill of the 13 available.   Maybe we also acquired Alec Martinez from the Kings.  His deal is $4 mill per season. That still leaves us with $3 mill in deadline dollars to work with.  I'm not advocating for either player, but their contracts had easy numbers to work with. 

The bottomline is we have no cap issues with player acquisition.  However we have a full 23 man roster.  Any trade will either include a player going back the other way or one getting waived to open a roster spot.

So besides Duchene, who might be available that could help us out?  I've mentioned Johansson on NJ before and Courterier from Philly would be a fantastic piece if available.  Anisimov might be interesting if the price is right.  He has two years left at 4.5 and might be a good bridge til Casey matures.  I might also be willing to take Saad from Chi if we try Reinhart back at center.

Edited January 22, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[GASabresIUFAN]

https://www.thefourthperiod.com/trade-watch-list-top-30-2019

Here is a list of possible available players.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

8 hours ago, Taro T said:

Well, time will definitely help.  When they are old enough to drink legallyin this country, Mittelstadt & Dahlin will be large parts of the solution.  Thingis, even when Mittelstadtis the 2C because he's earnedit, not simply out of necessity, they will then need a 3C.  (As in 3rd scoring line C, rather than shutdown C.)  Might as well get that ST 2C/LT 3C now as the need is here now & will remain a need in the coming season.  

Being able to give Sheary & Thompson a useful C and allowing Mittelstadt to get easy matchups with either Rodrigues & Pominville or Sobotka or a couple of deserving Amerks would significantly upgrade the entire forward corps.

It would also help the D as typically the other team's top line would be facing Larsson or Eichel, but the new guy's line wouldn't necessarily get crushed the few times it goes against that top line.

And the fear of the wrong move shouldn't be a limiting factor.  Botterill could just as easily screw up during the off-season as he could now.  (He also could hit a home run now.)  Though, should he not a make move during this season, we know the lineup hasn't been optimized as there is a gaping hole at 2C & about $4MM worth of nominal salary that is available to help try to fill that spot that wasn't available in November.

How productive have players like Sheary, TT, KO, etc been away from Casey? Pommer might be an exception when playing with 1st line.

Another argument could be made to get Casey some better wings and that might also help. Our bottom nine can be move around as many times as you want and still get the same amount of production (not much). To pin it on Casey is really not fair and he's not really a liability when on the ice either (no more than most 20yr olds).

I'm not saying I'm against getting a 2C. There's nothing wrong with getting a guy and having the two of them battle it out for the next couple years with one of them ultimately becoming the 3C, in fact that would be great as we would end up with possibly 3 scoring lines when all is said and done. It would also allow for us to get better wingers in the drafts to fill those middle two lines easier  or through FA/ trade/ or call-ups. 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

How productive have players like Sheary, TT, KO, etc been away from Casey? Pommer might be an exception when playing with 1st line.

Another argument could be made to get Casey some better wings and that might also help. Our bottom nine can be move around as many times as you want and still get the same amount of production (not much). To pin it on Casey is really not fair and he's not really a liability when on the ice either (no more than most 20yr olds).

I'm not saying I'm against getting a 2C. There's nothing wrong with getting a guy and having the two of them battle it out for the next couple years with one of them ultimately becoming the 3C, in fact that would be great as we would end up with possibly 3 scoring lines when all is said and done. It would also allow for us to get better wingers in the drafts to fill those middle two lines easier  or through FA/ trade/ or call-ups. 

JFC, I am not busting on Mittelstadt.  He WILL almost definitely be a 2C in 2 years.  But right now, he's a 20 yo kid that was playing HS hockey 2 years ago & 2nd line college minutes most of last year.  It is NOT a knock on him to say he isn't ready for 2C duty.  He SHOULD be centering a 3rd offensive line or a true 4th line.  Yeah, he scored a goal on his 1st shift in Edmonton back on the 2nd line.  He then did jack squat after that.  Let him develop against easier competition.  Getting a 2C brought in would allow him to do that.  He'd done squat for about a month before getting "demoted."  By his 2nd game centering Pominville & x, he was playing hockey again.

Playing tougher minutes that he's ready for is not doing his development any favors.

Let Casey play easy minutes this season & however long next season he needs to.  Get him from strong to "man strong" this off season & see where he's ready to go next year.  

But bring that ST 2C in now & get into the playoffs.

[PerreaultForever]

14 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

But bring that ST 2C in now & get into the playoffs.

With what? Draft picks? No thank you. And none of these fan wish deals where we give them Pommers or Okposo or some pile of rubbish nobody would want. Those are just silly. What do we really have to give that anybody would want and that wouldn't screw up or future?

[Taro T]

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

With what? Draft picks? No thank you. And none of these fan wish deals where we give them Pommers or Okposo or some pile of rubbish nobody would want. Those are just silly. What do we really have to give that anybody would want and that wouldn't screw up or future?

With whatever the #### they're going to have to give up this offseason.  If necessary, Add a 2nd or 3rd in '20 or '21 & move forward from there or better yet throw some ST (aka this season's) $'s in on the deal (by taking an overpaid underperforming guy who's contract expires this year) as well to save the pick.  The need doesn't go away in the offseason unless Mittelstadt really outperforms in his summer training program.  Even if he does, they still need a 3rd scoring C & injury insurance against Eichel or Casey going down for a handful of games.

GA has come up with several possible scenarios that don't mortgage the future & none of them include magically losing Pominville nor Okposo.  By not having a 2C in house for next season, they are very likely throwing away yet ANOTHER year.  Since they HAVE to make the move in the offseason, might as well make it happen now.

The need for a 2C doesn't magically disappear next season.  THAT transformation happens the following year when Mittelstadt finally (hopefully) is ready for the role.  There is no point in delaying the team's growth another year simply to keep ALL the bullets that MIGHT be available 4 years from now in the holster.  Do this right, & this new guy will be a useful part of the next 3+ years.  THAT is worth a small premium.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Taro T

[LGR4GM]

10 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

With what? Draft picks? No thank you. And none of these fan wish deals where we give them Pommers or Okposo or some pile of rubbish nobody would want. Those are just silly. What do we really have to give that anybody would want and that wouldn't screw up or future?

That is the question. We need talent and the best way to get talent is to develop it internally. Hopefully this years crop of College UFA's and Foreign UFA's gives us another player like Pilut too. There are many wells to drink from other than trading firsts away.