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Coach55

Ullmark vs Hutton

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Can someone tell me why Ullmark has not been given a fair shake to start?  Every time they have brought him up over the past few years he has been stellar.  Then in the off-season, they go and bring in an average journeyman goalie to be the starter.  Albeit he is an upgrade over Lehner (which I never understood that signing), I don’t believe he nearly as good as Ullmark.  This team has been failing over the past few seasons badly as a result of bad play combined with bad goaltending.  If we want a playoff team we need to give a fair shot to a young goalie who is a potential all-star, not a known commodity who will play .500 hockey. 

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This seems like the least of any problems the team might have.

And aren't we starting to get some scuttlebutt around the league that Ullmark is seen as more of a good backup/fringe starter type goalie than a potential all star?

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Goalies are a weird breed so even if that is being said... I am not sure you can make that judgement till he gets a chance at a lot of games in a row.  I do like this tandem.. it seems solid and the least of the problems the Sabres have.

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32 minutes ago, Coach55 said:

Can someone tell me why Ullmark has not been given a fair shake to start?  Every time they have brought him up over the past few years he has been stellar.  Then in the off-season, they go and bring in an average journeyman goalie to be the starter.  Albeit he is an upgrade over Lehner (which I never understood that signing), I don’t believe he nearly as good as Ullmark.  This team has been failing over the past few seasons badly as a result of bad play combined with bad goaltending.  If we want a playoff team we need to give a fair shot to a young goalie who is a potential all-star, not a known commodity who will play .500 hockey. 

Future all-star? Not sure there's evidence for that speculation. Maybe a good goaltender but all-star?

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31 minutes ago, Weave said:

This seems like the least of any problems the team might have.

And aren't we starting to get some scuttlebutt around the league that Ullmark is seen as more of a good backup/fringe starter type goalie than a potential all star?

I mean, I like the guy and that's my opinion of him. 

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He was an All Star at the AHL level. Isn't the next progression a move to the NHL with more playing time. Don't know what the kid has got unless you play him more.  I want to see him start 30 games this year.  Won't happen if he only plays 1 out of 8 games. 

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Its not like Hutton has played very bad, he has been doing OK, the team is absolute SHAIT right now and most because Phil obviously cant coach them in the right direction, it is so obvious that there is no red line in his gameplan. Just look at how bad Ristolainen is right now, among others ofc, he shouldnt even play powerplay, still Phil puts him there.

Hutton/Ullmark cant save this team

 

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1 hour ago, Coach55 said:

Can someone tell me why Ullmark has not been given a fair shake to start?  Every time they have brought him up over the past few years he has been stellar.  Then in the off-season, they go and bring in an average journeyman goalie to be the starter.  Albeit he is an upgrade over Lehner (which I never understood that signing), I don’t believe he nearly as good as Ullmark.  This team has been failing over the past few seasons badly as a result of bad play combined with bad goaltending.  If we want a playoff team we need to give a fair shot to a young goalie who is a potential all-star, not a known commodity who will play .500 hockey. 

I don't think it's accurate to say he has not been given a fair shake to start.  The organization has evaluated Ullmark since Day 1 of him coming board.  They know who he is and what he can do at this moment.  He has proven to be quite capable and a player with promise. However, I don't think he's done anything to win a starting job yet and with the way this team is playing it might be better if he's only in the backup role right now.

There is a sense, I think, that changes must be made because of where this team is at. I understand why people feel that way. I hope there are a few changes made but I don't think the goaltending situation is where it should happen. I think Hutton is the right goaltender for this team right now.

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37 minutes ago, LTS said:

I don't think it's accurate to say he has not been given a fair shake to start.  The organization has evaluated Ullmark since Day 1 of him coming board.  They know who he is and what he can do at this moment.  He has proven to be quite capable and a player with promise. However, I don't think he's done anything to win a starting job yet and with the way this team is playing it might be better if he's only in the backup role right now.

There is a sense, I think, that changes must be made because of where this team is at. I understand why people feel that way. I hope there are a few changes made but I don't think the goaltending situation is where it should happen. I think Hutton is the right goaltender for this team right now.

A handful of games and practice is not a fair assessment. His past in game peformance deserves more playing time.  As a parent of a goalie, a hot goalie who makes one or two key saves could be the difference in momentum and swing the whole game in other direction.  I have seen both sides of the coin too much.  Hasek almost didn’t get the opportunity back in the day. Not saying Ullmark is Hasek, but I have seen enough of him to think he warrants more starts.  Once given the opportunity, he may be the best goalie we’ve had this millennium (which isn’t saying much). 

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2 hours ago, darksabre said:

I mean, I like the guy and that's my opinion of him. 

Yea, fringe starter seems right. Considering he was drafted in the 6th round I will take that. 

I think Hutton has played good and his team has screwed so there isn't a good reason to not play him. Ullmark will probably get more starts as we progress. 

1 hour ago, Coach55 said:

  Once given the opportunity, he may be the best goalie we’ve had this millennium (which isn’t saying much). 

... ummm Ryan Miller. 

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Housley f'd it up by not starting Ullmark in Vegas.   

As a player, when your goalie gets a shutout, it builds a tremendous amount of confidence throughout the team.... you ride that wave as long as you can.      That's how hockey works, it's a sport of momentum and confidence.     Not that they don't have any confidence in Hutton, of course they do, but Ullmark played fantastic, players need to see those types of performances are getting rewarded.

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2 hours ago, Coach55 said:

A handful of games and practice is not a fair assessment. His past in game peformance deserves more playing time.  As a parent of a goalie, a hot goalie who makes one or two key saves could be the difference in momentum and swing the whole game in other direction.  I have seen both sides of the coin too much.  Hasek almost didn’t get the opportunity back in the day. Not saying Ullmark is Hasek, but I have seen enough of him to think he warrants more starts.  Once given the opportunity, he may be the best goalie we’ve had this millennium (which isn’t saying much). 

Ullmark managed to get a shutout against a team that, at that point, had the most anemic offense in the NHL. He'll get another shot this weekend, we'll see how it goes against either the Kings or Ducks.  As for fair assessment, this is how it works in the NHL and it's never worked differently.  He'll have to prove himself in his limited starts and hope for an opportunity.

16 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

Housley f'd it up by not starting Ullmark in Vegas.   

As a player, when your goalie gets a shutout, it builds a tremendous amount of confidence throughout the team.... you ride that wave as long as you can.      That's how hockey works, it's a sport of momentum and confidence.     Not that they don't have any confidence in Hutton, of course they do, but Ullmark played fantastic, players need to see those types of performances are getting rewarded.

And yet every coach plays the backup a single game and then goes back to the starter almost every time.  This situation is no different.

 

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Arizona is averaging half a goal less than the SABRES per game. I can understand the brass not getting too excited holding a team averaging 1 goal a game to zero goals. 

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1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Yea, fringe starter seems right. Considering he was drafted in the 6th round I will take that. 

I think Hutton has played good and his team has screwed so there isn't a good reason to not play him. Ullmark will probably get more starts as we progress. 

... ummm Ryan Miller. 

Ryan Miller was always a weak goalie IMO.  He was forever overrated. Goalie is a political position and he fit into coaching politics well.  Goalies who are deemed starters or high draft picks maintain their status as long as they are average or better. Ryan Miller was average who was expected to be good, but never got there. 

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I'm not sure who should be the starter between the two. But here's the way I see it. Hutton is in his 30's and he's never been a starter. He's looked pretty good, but there is a reason why he has never been a starter. Of course, when you play with Rinne you're going to be a backup regardless. Still, if he was starter material, other teams would have tried to pry him from Nashville years ago. 

Without a bonafide starter, Housley should be starting whoever is hot. For him to not play Ullmark after a shutout just dumbfounds me. If Ullmark is hot, play him. If Hutton is hot, play him. You don't bench a goaltender after he just posted a very respectable shutout. 

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1 minute ago, Coach55 said:

Ryan Miller was always a weak goalie IMO.  He was forever overrated. Goalie is a political position and he fit into coaching politics well.  Goalies who are deemed starters or high draft picks maintain their status as long as they are average or better. Ryan Miller was average who was expected to be good, but never got there. 

Ryan Miller had two good years. The rest was average, but he's been given starter status because of his Olympic run. 

Although, he was great as a backup last year. 

Still, he has a lower career save percentage than Lehner and Sabres fans wouldn't hesitate to trash him on a daily basis.......... shootouts not considered. And Lehner has played on worse teams than Miller has. 

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I have always believed in Linus Ullmark, which most of you that know me knows.
Linus is what got me to become a Buffalo Sabre fan and the one of the reasons i flew from Sweden to Buffalo, rest is story.

I know Linus enough to say that he can for sure become a franchise goalie, but to become that he knows he need to fight hard and he has, trust me.
Now we have him where he wants to be, he needs to learn and be patient like any other player so there is no reason to start Linus as much as possible just because he
is a good goalie, he needs to earn it just like anyone else.

And, 

He will.

 

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18 minutes ago, JJFIVEOH said:

Ryan Miller had two good years. The rest was average, but he's been given starter status because of his Olympic run. 

Although, he was great as a backup last year. 

Still, he has a lower career save percentage than Lehner and Sabres fans wouldn't hesitate to trash him on a daily basis.......... shootouts not considered. And Lehner has played on worse teams than Miller has. 

Ryan Miller never approached the tire fire that Lehner was last year. Lehner had a nice save percentage two years ago when we artificially inflated it by allowing 30 shots per game from the perimeter, but he was bottom 3 in the entire league in terms of saving shots from dangerous areas, even in that season. Ryan was never close to that bad on shots that actually meant something. There was no specific goaltending skill set that Lehner brought that comes within a light year of Ryan's positional abilities. Sure, he wasn't elite outside of one or two seasons, but this team would kill for goaltending as consistent as he brought, in a set of seasons that has a non-negligible difference in league save percentage compared to now. 

Miller's problem wasn't his play, it was that the team was built around him. Had this team had its focal point and calling card somewhere in front of him, where the actual hockey was played, there wouldn't be a single non-fond memory of the guy. Except for ppl who didn't like the WTF wave 

Edited by Randall Flagg

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i was surprised to hear they signed hutton this year and next year. i honestly assumed ullmark would be the starter this year or next. however, i suspect it will be after hutton contract ends before ullmark starts unless hutton gets hurt bad or gets to be lehner bad

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25 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Ryan Miller never approached the tire fire that Lehner was last year. Lehner had a nice save percentage two years ago when we artificially inflated it by allowing 30 shots per game from the perimeter, but he was bottom 3 in the entire league in terms of saving shots from dangerous areas, even in that season. Ryan was never close to that bad on shots that actually meant something. There was no specific goaltending skill set that Lehner brought that comes within a light year of Ryan's positional abilities. Sure, he wasn't elite outside of one or two seasons, but this team would kill for goaltending as consistent as he brought, in a set of seasons that has a non-negligible difference in league save percentage compared to now. 

Miller's problem wasn't his play, it was that the team was built around him. Had this team had its focal point and calling card somewhere in front of him, where the actual hockey was played, there wouldn't be a single non-fond memory of the guy. Except for ppl who didn't like the WTF wave 

Fair enough. But Miller also only had two good years of save percentages. All the rest were pretty average. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I liked Miller for the fact that he was consistently average. I think only Tomas Vokoun was a more consistent goaltender, and one of the most underrated. But still, Miller was never anything special for most of his years. 

 

Just saying, I like Hutton. He seems calm, composed and a leader. But, he's never been a starter which makes me leery about moving forward. Play the hot goaltender, not the one you're paying the most money for. 

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Ullmark will get his chance again this weekend with the back to back. We'll see how he holds up. Either LA or the Ducks will be a good test for him.

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1 hour ago, LTS said:

And yet every coach plays the backup a single game and then goes back to the starter almost every time.  This situation is no different.

It's different because Hutton is not an established starter.   Him and Ullmark should be competing for the starting job.   

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4 hours ago, JJFIVEOH said:

Fair enough. But Miller also only had two good years of save percentages. All the rest were pretty average. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I liked Miller for the fact that he was consistently average. I think only Tomas Vokoun was a more consistent goaltender, and one of the most underrated. But still, Miller was never anything special for most of his years. 

 

Just saying, I like Hutton. He seems calm, composed and a leader. But, he's never been a starter which makes me leery about moving forward. Play the hot goaltender, not the one you're paying the most money for. 

This might be the worst take you've had among a littany of awful takes. I'm not a big Miller honk but the amount of shade thrown on him here is completely unjustified. 

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