Eichel Hammy Interview 8/22

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

As a talent, he may be top 10 in the league. As a player, he’s not even a shoo-in for top 50.

Performance needs to match ability and it has to happen now.

 

It hasn't already?

Colour me confused on how Jack Eichel is being regarded in general around here. Have people forgotten that he finished 11th in the entire NHL in points per games played, on this team, in his sophomore season at age 20? On an offensively inept team with very little help, Eichel has paced for 77 points and 78 points as a 20 and 21 year old. WELL beyond the production of a Nathan MacKinnon at the equivalent seasons. MacKinnon didn't even have his break out year until his 5th year post draft. 

The two-way game takes time, but I think what's really happening here is that it's really his health that needs to start matching his ability, not performance. 

How would we be feeling about his early career if he'd stayed healthy the last two seasons and his stat lines read:

24g, 32a, 56p

32g, 45a, 77p

30g, 48a, 78p

Two-time 30 goal scorer and over 200 points on an ELC while having to almost single-handedly carry the offensive load? His performance  is matching his ability and he's still growing as a player and has plenty of time to do so. He's 21. 

A budding superstar on this rise, that I fear will be battling against unreachable expectations owing to the fact his last name was spelled "McEichel" for a year. 

Edited August 26, 2018 by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

On 8/24/2018 at 6:20 PM, PASabreFan said:

Year 4 is critical now. #39 in scoring again (ppg) and we're getting into disappointment territory.

This, right here, is just such a crap take. 

[7+6=13]

6 hours ago, Weave said:

It's not a crazy post.  You can appreciate the talent and lament the woe is me attitude that is on display.  It is valid criticism. Vanek was saddled with it after Drury and Briere left, and deservedly so.  In some part it speaks to the lack of maturity that you mention in your last sentence.  But it is also a function of personality.  Vanek was plenty mature and continued to have that reaction.  I'm hoping that is a part of Jack's personality that changes.

That's because you didn't reference the crazy part.  Why? 

 

That he's in critical year 4 and we're approaching disappointment territory is not only crazy but it diminishes hockey acumen significantly if you believe that.  

[Weave]

13 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

That's because you didn't reference the crazy part.  Why? 

 

That he's in critical year 4 and we're approaching disappointment territory is not only crazy but it diminishes hockey acumen significantly if you believe that.  

It’s crazy that a fan is disappointed because a hyped savior now into a mega contract has not fulfilled the hype?  

No, it’s not.  You may have a different standard is all.

[7+6=13]

8 minutes ago, Weave said:

It’s crazy that a fan is disappointed because a hyped savior now into a mega contract has not fulfilled the hype?  

No, it’s not.  You may have a different standard is all.

Who's hyping him?  If you think it's fellow Sabres fans then you have a small complaint.  IMO, he's under hyped because injury has not allowed him to post the points for national exposure and most importantly because our TEAM has been less than awful.  He got screwed and there's small minded Sabre fans that need the national attention on him to help them believe he's really that good.  It's an inferiority complex.  

Take this mega contracted hyped player off our roster and see what you have.  

[PASabreFan]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

This, right here, is just such a crap take. 

If you say so. You wouldn't be disappointed in another 39th place finish in scoring?

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

32 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

Who's hyping him?  If you think it's fellow Sabres fans then you have a small complaint.  IMO, he's under hyped because injury has not allowed him to post the points for national exposure and most importantly because our TEAM has been less than awful.  He got screwed and there's small minded Sabre fans that need the national attention on him to help them believe he's really that good.  It's an inferiority complex.  

Take this mega contracted hyped player off our roster and see what you have.  

If I could give this post 10 thumbs up ....I would!!!!!!

[Weave]

1 hour ago, 7+6=13 said:

Who's hyping him?  If you think it's fellow Sabres fans then you have a small complaint.  IMO, he's under hyped because injury has not allowed him to post the points for national exposure and most importantly because our TEAM has been less than awful.  He got screwed and there's small minded Sabre fans that need the national attention on him to help them believe he's really that good.  It's an inferiority complex.  

Take this mega contracted hyped player off our roster and see what you have.  

Anothet last place team?

Man, that would be awful.

[Thorny]

4 hours ago, Weave said:

It’s crazy that a fan is disappointed because a hyped savior now into a mega contract has not fulfilled the hype?  

No, it’s not.  You may have a different standard is all.

He's not going to. People need to take a cue from Frozen and let it go. He was hyped as McDavid's potential equal and he's not that. 

With that out of the way, comparing him to other #2 overall picks, and most #1 overall picks (or prospective franchise-players), he's tracking just fine. He's a superstar in the making. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

15 minutes ago, Thorny said:

He's not going to. People need to take a cue from Frozen and let it go. He was hyped as McDavid's potential equal and he's not that. 

With that out of the way, comparing him to other #2 overall picks, and most #1 overall picks (or prospective franchise-players), he's tracking just fine. He's a superstar in the making. 

McDavid was the consensus #1.....Eichel was the "consolation" prize.

Edited August 26, 2018 by MakeSabresGrr8Again

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

McDavid was the consensus #1.....Eichel was the "consolation" prize.

There was plenty of talk around the time Eichel was drafted that he was in the same tier as McDavid, that of a "generational" player. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

Just now, Thorny said:

There was plenty of talk around the time Eichel was drafted that he was in the same tier as McDavid, that of a "generational" player. 

I agree with you on the "generational" player status but he was an obvious 2nd to McDavid.....Murray,s expression when we lost the lottery said it all.

The McEichel theme was a play on the "tank".....whoever finished last was guaranteed Eichel but "could" win lottery and get the main prize in McDavid. 

[LGR4GM]

3 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

If you say so. You wouldn't be disappointed in another 39th place finish in scoring?

This sentence, as constructed, is false. 

[LGR4GM]

Will I be disappointed if a player with .995ppg is 39th in ppg this season? Idk, probably not because that's still really good on a sh##y team. 

Edited August 26, 2018 by LGR4GM

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

I agree with you on the "generational" player status but he was an obvious 2nd to McDavid.....Murray,s expression when we lost the lottery said it all.

The McEichel theme was a play on the "tank".....whoever finished last was guaranteed Eichel but "could" win lottery and get the main prize in McDavid. 

I know. But what I'm trying to get at is that Eichel was viewed and presented by many as in a tier of prospect (generational) he really wasn't likely in. 

He's more in line with the likes of MacKinnon and Matthews, yet still above the standard 2 overalls like JVR, and even some 1s like a RNH. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

21 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I know. But what I'm trying to get at is that Eichel was viewed and presented by many as in a tier of prospect (generational) he really wasn't likely in. 

He's more in line with the likes of MacKinnon and Matthews, yet still above the standard 2 overalls like JVR, and even some 1s like a RNH. 

That I agree with mostly....Jack is/or can be that generational player. Once he gets the talent around him that McDavid has.

Even with McDavid and the talent around him Oilers still finished 23rd in league standings (i know...they made the playoffs the year B4). Point is that even with a generational talent can we "expect" to be great. Now with Dahlin (a "generational" D talent) maybe that can happen. Dahlin will take some of the pressure off Jack along with bringing some of that national media exposure too. Maybe it also motivates Jack into what we hope he'll become.

[7+6=13]

3 hours ago, Weave said:

Anothet last place team?

Man, that would be awful.

That's just lazy.  

[Weave]

46 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

That's just lazy.  

I know, right?  That was a softball you laid out there.

[7+6=13]

5 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

If you say so. You wouldn't be disappointed in another 39th place finish in scoring?

Not if it was in 67 games again.  I'd be disappointed if he only played in 67 games.  Only 1 player was ahead of Eichel in the top 56 ppg in under 70 games - Marchand in 68 games and 1 player tied him in points - Forsberg in 67 games.  

There's only 12 players in the top 56 in ppg 22 years old and younger and Eichel is one of them.  The other 11 averaged 80.18 games.  

He's just got to play and he'll be recognized for what he is.  One of the great young talents in the game and he's earned that distinction on one of the most inept teams in the league (although I think that's quickly changing).  

Just now, Weave said:

I know, right?  That was a softball you laid out there.

It was a water balloon that splashed all over you when you hit it.  

[Weave]

5 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

It was a water balloon that splashed all over you when you hit it.  

yup.  Definitely lacked substance.

[dudacek]

10 hours ago, Thorny said:

It hasn't already?

Colour me confused on how Jack Eichel is being regarded in general around here. Have people forgotten that he finished 11th in the entire NHL in points per games played, on this team, in his sophomore season at age 20? On an offensively inept team with very little help, Eichel has paced for 77 points and 78 points as a 20 and 21 year old. WELL beyond the production of a Nathan MacKinnon at the equivalent seasons. MacKinnon didn't even have his break out year until his 5th year post draft. 

The two-way game takes time, but I think what's really happening here is that it's really his health that needs to start matching his ability, not performance. 

How would we be feeling about his early career if he'd stayed healthy the last two seasons and his stat lines read:

24g, 32a, 56p

32g, 45a, 77p

30g, 48a, 78p

Two-time 30 goal scorer and over 200 points on an ELC while having to almost single-handedly carry the offensive load? His performance  is matching his ability and he's still growing as a player and has plenty of time to do so. He's 21. 

A budding superstar on this rise, that I fear will be battling against unreachable expectations owing to the fact his last name was spelled "McEichel" for a year. 

I think you supplied the best answer to your question.

It won’t happen until Eichel has a season like MacKinnon just had - 90 points, and leads his team to the playoffs.

Until then, we’re talking about his potential.

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by dudacek

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

I think you supplied the best answer to your question.

It won’t happen until Eichel has a season like MacKinnon just had - 90 points, and leads his team to the playoffs.

Until then, we’re talking about his potential.

 

And this could be the year we finally see his potential.  No more skating with Girgs and Pommers.  He'll have his BFF on the right side, and a natural goal scorer on a contract year on his left. 

[7+6=13]

9 hours ago, Weave said:

yup.  Definitely lacked substance.

Haha,  good debate.  Until next time....

[LGR4GM]

17 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

If you say so. You wouldn't be disappointed in another 39th place finish in scoring?

You didn't even get the PPG rank correct. http://www.espn.com/nhl/statistics/player/_/stat/points/sort/avgPoints

I am going to set the bar at 5games. If you played less than 5 games you don't count. After you do that it eliminates 7 players all of who played 2 games or less. Then you have to take into account the fact that Jack Eichel was tied in ppg with 2 other players. So even if your rank of 39 was right I could say 37th instead because ties, interesting you took the lowest possible for Jack.

Finally what we have is a list of roughly 33 players instead of 40 and counting the ties, Jack Eichel was 29th not 39th in PPG last year based off of the ESPN stats I located. He was tied with Forsberg and Benn.  Considering Buffalo (199) scored 9 fewer goals than the next closest team Arizona and there are only 2 teams (Montreal and Arizona) within 10 goals of the Sabres... no I am not disappointed a team with the worst offensive output in the entire league bar none, had Jack Eichel at 29th in PPG. For the record, no one from Arizona (208), Montreal (209), Detroit (217), or Vancouver (218) is on the list above Eichel. Those are the 4 teams directly ahead of Buffalo in goals scored last season. 

(Note Van tied with Calgary in goals with 218, Calgary has Johnny Gaudreau on the list tied at 16th overall in PPG. To get Eichel to Guadreau, Jack would have needed to get roughly 6 more points in the same number of games played.)

Edited August 27, 2018 by LGR4GM

[PASabreFan]

24 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

You didn't even get the PPG rank correct. http://www.espn.com/nhl/statistics/player/_/stat/points/sort/avgPoints

I am going to set the bar at 5games. If you played less than 5 games you don't count. After you do that it eliminates 7 players all of who played 2 games or less. Then you have to take into account the fact that Jack Eichel was tied in ppg with 2 other players. So even if your rank of 39 was right I could say 37th instead because ties, interesting you took the lowest possible for Jack.

Finally what we have is a list of roughly 33 players instead of 40 and counting the ties, Jack Eichel was 29th not 39th in PPG last year based off of the ESPN stats I located. He was tied with Forsberg and Benn.  Considering Buffalo (199) scored 9 fewer goals than the next closest team Arizona and there are only 2 teams (Montreal and Arizona) within 10 goals of the Sabres... no I am not disappointed a team with the worst offensive output in the entire league bar none, had Jack Eichel at 29th in PPG. For the record, no one from Arizona (208), Montreal (209), Detroit (217), or Vancouver (218) is on the list above Eichel. Those are the 4 teams directly ahead of Buffalo in goals scored last season. 

(Note Van tied with Calgary in goals with 218, Calgary has Johnny Gaudreau on the list tied at 16th overall in PPG. To get Eichel to Guadreau, Jack would have needed to get roughly 6 more points in the same number of games played.)

(I went by nhl.com.)

And that's a lot of hoops to jump through to make Jack look a little less disappointing. One thing to think about is that scoring went up last year in the NHL and Jack couldn't take advantage. Now, that might very well point to Housley.

There seems to be some excuse-making going on here. Some of you are waiting for the perfect scenario for Jack where he's surrounded by all this talent. Then he'll take off and lead the Sabres somewhere. In reality, he is the talent who's supposed to lead. It just hasn't happened yet, apparently because he's just not good enough to do so. No great criticism of Jack there, he'd have to be someone pretty special to do so. Maybe he's just going to be a very good player if the team is ever very good. No shame. The first three years will have been kind of a reality check.

Also, breaking down his season last year, it was the first two months that was the problem. He can't have that kind of slow start again. Because the team can't.

Now someone can tell me he didn't really have a slow start because the Sabres can't score goals and strength of opposition and Relative Mikko Makela on Sundays.