Buffalo Beauts 2018-19

[Eleven]

Schedule is out:  https://www.nwhl.zone/news_article/show/937078

[sabills]

Saturday, October 13    1:30 pm – Whale at Beauts

First home game

[Eleven]

^ I will be there.

[darksabre]

Pfalzer re-signs with Buffalo. 

This team is going to be amazing this year. 

[darksabre]

Home opener today. Josie and I will be there. Come find us!

[Brawndo]

https://apnews.com/5767cf4e415e43fe9b53109ca626bcdd?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP_Sports&utm_campaign=SocialFlow

 

NWHL ans CWHL merger inevitable 

[Eleven]

37 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

https://apnews.com/5767cf4e415e43fe9b53109ca626bcdd?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP_Sports&utm_campaign=SocialFlow

 

NWHL ans CWHL merger inevitable 

Is there enough talent for 11 teams of paid players?  Enough of a market?

Is it a good idea to have teams in Boston, Hartford, New York, and Worcester?  Or to have two teams in Toronto, as the CWHL currently does?

Is it a good idea to have a team in China?

I see some problems on the horizon.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Eleven

[sabills]

16 hours ago, Eleven said:

Is there enough talent for 11 teams of paid players?  Enough of a market?

Is it a good idea to have teams in Boston, Hartford, New York, and Worcester?  Or to have two teams in Toronto, as the CWHL currently does?

Is it a good idea to have a team in China?

I see some problems on the horizon.

Well those teams already all have players right? So they must have enough. That said, contraction wouldn't surprise me when they combine the leagues.

[sabills]

While I'm here, nice article on Kelly Babstock from The Athletic:
https://theathletic.com/596472/2018/10/18/as-the-nwhls-only-native-player-beauts-newcomer-kelly-babstock-is-on-a-mission-to-bring-more-with-her/

[LGR4GM]

I still hate this teams name. The Beauts is dumb, we wouldn't name a guys team the Handsome or something like that. 

[josie]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I still hate this teams name. The Beauts is dumb, we wouldn't name a guys team the Handsome or something like that. 

I guess at least it isn't Lady Sabres. But jeez, they could've gone for CutLasses... heh 

[shrader]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I still hate this teams name. The Beauts is dumb, we wouldn't name a guys team the Handsome or something like that. 

If there can be two NHL teams in Canada named the Canadians (yes, I realize how I spelled it), they can name a hockey team anything.  It's not quite Rough Riders vs. Roughriders, but it's close.  And before you get excited inkman, I'm not suggesting naming a women's team the rough riders.

Seriously though, yes, I'm not crazy about the name either.  Actually, it kind of reminds me of naming a mascot Gritty.

[LGR4GM]

Gritty is terrifying, do not speak its name. 

[darksabre]

Gritty...

Gritty...

Gritty! 

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, sabills said:

Well those teams already all have players right? So they must have enough. That said, contraction wouldn't surprise me when they combine the leagues.

They don't all have paid players, though.  The reason the NWHL has a lot more talent than the CWHL is that it pays its players while the CWHL doesn't (or historically didn't).  So again, is there enough pro-quality talent for 11 teams?

[darksabre]

1 minute ago, Eleven said:

They don't all have paid players, though.  The reason the NWHL has a lot more talent than the CWHL is that it pays its players while the CWHL doesn't (or historically didn't).  So again, is there enough pro-quality talent for 11 teams?

The CWHL pays its players now. From wiki

 

Quote

Along with its expansion into China for the 2017–18 season, the league announced it would also begin paying its players for the first time.^[12] The finances for the player's salaries is to come from the increased revenue in China.^[11] Each player is set to make a minimum of $2,000 per season and a maximum of $10,000 with a team salary cap of $100,000.^[11] At the time of the announcement, it made the league the second fully professional women's hockey league in North America after the launch of the rival National Women's Hockey League (NWHL) in the United States in 2015.

I would assume an expanded league would allow for more games which would allow for more revenue to pay the players? 

[Eleven]

4 minutes ago, darksabre said:

The CWHL pays its players now. From wiki

 

I would assume an expanded league would allow for more games which would allow for more revenue to pay the players? 

So the CWHL maximum salary is the same as the NWHL minimum salary.  Still no contest.  The talent still is in the N and not the C.  So is there enough talent (not money) for 11 teams? 

[darksabre]

Just now, Eleven said:

So the CWHL maximum salary is the same as the NWHL minimum salary.  Still no contest.  The talent still is in the N and not the C.  So is there enough talent (not money) for 11 teams? 

That's a good question. I think the talent level has certainly gone up in the NWHL since it started. I would hate to see that talent level watered down again.

I guess the question for me is: how good is the CWHL currently? Is it close, or would the NWHL blow them out of the water?

Players seem to bounce back and forth between the leagues, so I'm not positive that the NWHL is ahead of the CWHL by too much. 

I think the biggest problem in growing talent is giving women's hockey players an incentive at the lower levels. Men's hockey players push their development curves a lot harder because there are a lot more opportunities to play hockey for money after say, juniors or college, than there are for women's players. Most women's players go as far as college and that's it, so all they're competing for is college spots. There's never been much beyond that except the national teams. 

If a CWHL/NWHL merger can show women players that there will be more opportunities to play after college, I think you'll see the talent level start rising to meet that opportunity. 

The merger has to be timed correctly. Merge too soon and you dilute the product too much. Merge too late and perhaps players lose faith that pushing their development matters. 

I almost wonder if a better setup would be to use the CWHL as a feeder for the NWHL. Have a larger number of lower talent teams feeding into the smaller NWHL where the salaries and the talent is only the best of the best. 12 CWHL teams feeding 6 NWHL teams would provide ample opportunity for players while ensuring that the product in one of the leagues remains elite. 

 

[LGR4GM]

38 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Gritty...

Gritty...

Gritty! 

[Brawndo]

Bettman has said in the past that the NHL would not support two women’s hockey leagues, but would be interested in supporting one league. 

This opens up the possibility of financial assistance from the NHL  to level the salary differences between all teams. 

Some of the teams would have to be relocated, Pittsburgh, Columbus, Philadelphia and Detroit would be Candidates to receive teams. 

Another potential problem is how players would be assigned between the teams. Do they allow existing players to continue as UFAs as the NWHL does with new players going through a draft? 

 

[Brawndo]

Looks like the NHL has bridged the salary gap before @Eleven

http://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/25017809/nhl-quietly-helped-usa-hockey-pay-women-national-team-players

[Taro T]

7 hours ago, darksabre said:

That's a good question. I think the talent level has certainly gone up in the NWHL since it started. I would hate to see that talent level watered down again.

I guess the question for me is: how good is the CWHL currently? Is it close, or would the NWHL blow them out of the water?

Players seem to bounce back and forth between the leagues, so I'm not positive that the NWHL is ahead of the CWHL by too much. 

I think the biggest problem in growing talent is giving women's hockey players an incentive at the lower levels. Men's hockey players push their development curves a lot harder because there are a lot more opportunities to play hockey for money after say, juniors or college, than there are for women's players. Most women's players go as far as college and that's it, so all they're competing for is college spots. There's never been much beyond that except the national teams. 

If a CWHL/NWHL merger can show women players that there will be more opportunities to play after college, I think you'll see the talent level start rising to meet that opportunity. 

The merger has to be timed correctly. Merge too soon and you dilute the product too much. Merge too late and perhaps players lose faith that pushing their development matters. 

I almost wonder if a better setup would be to use the CWHL as a feeder for the NWHL. Have a larger number of lower talent teams feeding into the smaller NWHL where the salaries and the talent is only the best of the best. 12 CWHL teams feeding 6 NWHL teams would provide ample opportunity for players while ensuring that the product in one of the leagues remains elite. 

 

But will there be enough pay to make it worth the while for players beyond a handful of elite players to make a "career" out of it?  And if there isn't, will there be a reason to expect the quality of play to rise appreciably enough to make it a self amplifying feedback loop?

It doesn't appear to have, to this casual observer, for soccer.  Have doubts that it will for women's hockey, but hopefully it does.

[Weave]

34 minutes ago, Taro T said:

But will there be enough pay to make it worth the while for players beyond a handful of elite players to make a "career" out of it?  And if there isn't, will there be a reason to expect the quality of play to rise appreciably enough to make it a self amplifying feedback loop?

It doesn't appear to have, to this casual observer, for soccer.  Have doubts that it will for women's hockey, but hopefully it does.

They don't get paid enough to make it a career.  They have second jobs.  Not unlike professional indoor lacrosse (or at least the way it used to be).

[Eleven]

On 10/18/2018 at 5:02 PM, Brawndo said:

Looks like the NHL has bridged the salary gap before @Eleven

http://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/25017809/nhl-quietly-helped-usa-hockey-pay-women-national-team-players

That's the women's national (US) team, though.  And it's really a talent gap and not a salary gap that I'm worried about.

On 10/18/2018 at 6:43 PM, Weave said:

They don't get paid enough to make it a career.  They have second jobs.  Not unlike professional indoor lacrosse (or at least the way it used to be).

True, but many of those second jobs are hockey related.  Kind of like a golfer who's not good enough to make the big tour but who is good enough to be the pro at Oak Hill.  (Please note I am not insulting the skill levels of the NWHL players by making this analogy!)

Edited October 21, 2018 by Eleven

[Weave]

1 minute ago, Eleven said:

That's the women's national (US) team, though.  And it's really a talent gap and not a salary gap that I'm worried about.

True, but many of those second jobs are hockey related.  Kind of like a golfer who's not good enough to make the big tour but who is good enough to be the pro at Oak Hill.  (Please note I am not insulting the skill levels of the NWHL players by making this analogy!)

I can only speak of one in particular that waits tables to make ends meet.  She almost didn't come back last season because the practice times interfered with the better restaurant times crowd/tip-wise and the practices are unpaid.  Didn't make sense financially for her.