Should Jbot Try To Add to This Roster Before Next Season?

[pi2000]

4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This is what TM did and look where it got us.  We aren't ready for that.  We need to see what our kids can do and then and only then supplement if necessary.

It got us to the playoffs and a win from the Cup finals.... better than this shiit show.

[Eleven]

4 hours ago, pi2000 said:

It got us to the playoffs and a win from the Cup finals.... better than this shiit show.

Are you thinking of Regier?  Murray didn't get the Sabres to the playoffs or anywhere close to the finals.

Regier's post-Hasek rebuild, though, was something that he doesn't get enough credit for.

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 hours ago, pi2000 said:

It got us to the playoffs and a win from the Cup finals.... better than this shiit show.

But only after we developed a large group of prospects.  While we acquired Briere and Drury, Roy, Vanek, Pommers, Kotalik, Max, Kalinin, Campbell, Miller, Gaustad, McKee, Stafford and Tallinder were all our prospects.  

Right now we have exactly 5 prospects on our team, Eichel, Reinhardt, Risto, McCabe and Erod, except Erod was a college FA and played just over 1/2 a season.  Not exactly a flood of talent from our pipeline. This changes finally this season if guys like Guhle, Ullmark, Dahlin, Baptiste, Mittelstadt and Dahlin all make the team and contribute. 

like I’ve said before, TM put the cart ahead of the horse. Jbot won’t be making the same mistake.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

5 hours ago, pi2000 said:

It got us to the playoffs and a win from the Cup finals.... better than this shiit show.

So, are you a gaziollionaire?  Oh, wait.  You guys have to pay tax on lotto winnings down there.  So, are you slightly less than a gazillionaire?

I think you are in the south end of The Republic and not the north, though?  Right?

[pi2000]

29 minutes ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

I agree with you about finding those guys whose previous team either underutilized or miscast.  The Briere and Satan trades were massive coups because we didn't give up anything to acquire them.  Briere and a 3rd cost us Chris Gratton and a 4th.  Satan cost Craig Millar and Barrie Moore - 2 9th round picks, neither of which were super highly thought of.

In the case of Briere, I suppose Gratton was a pretty consistent 40 point player and he had the pedigree of being a 3rd overall pick and a 30 goal season in his past so it's not like he was nothing but IIRC he was pretty highly paid for his mediocre production.

I think the Brandon Hickey trade could look pretty good for us in a couple years. 

Got any suggestions of players you'd target if you were in charge?

off the top of my head.... J. Brodzinski, Virtanen, Sissons, T. Motte, Reid Boucher.... guys like that kinda, but it's not my job to spend days and weeks trying to find these guys.    I'll leave that to the experts.

[North Buffalo]

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

off the top of my head.... J. Brodzinski, Virtanen, Sissons, T. Motte, Reid Boucher.... guys like that kinda, but it's not my job to spend days and weeks trying to find these guys.    I'll leave that to the experts.

Oh common, you can dooo iet!

 

Edited July 25, 2018 by North Buffalo

[Weave]

3 hours ago, Eleven said:

 

Regier's post-Hasek rebuild, though, was something that he doesn't get enough credit for.

I’ve never given this any thought, but you are absolutely right.   That was a helluva rebuild.

[GASabresIUFAN]

19 minutes ago, Weave said:

I’ve never given this any thought, but you are absolutely right.   That was a helluva rebuild.

Teppo, Grier, Hecht, Lydman, Drury and Briere were great additions to a core built from drafting well.

[Thorny]

3 hours ago, Weave said:

I’ve never given this any thought, but you are absolutely right.   That was a helluva rebuild.

Regier did a great job, and the success of his rebuild was accentuated by the fact it happened to line up with, and actually was at the forefront of, a league-wide trend coming out of the 04/05 lockout, whereby smaller, skilled, quick teams ruled the day. 

I have hope that the Sabres will once again be at the forefront of a league-wide trend through Botterill's focus on mining the re-vamped, on-the-up Swedish development system, backed by his continued focus on the (still less utilized than the CHL, but closing the gap) USHL/College development route. 

By most accounts, Murray was caught with his pants down trying to emulate a Kings-style trend on the down slope. 

[Weave]

7 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Teppo, Grier, Hecht, Lydman, Drury and Briere were great additions to a core built from drafting well.

 

The vets added were critical to the success of that team.  Shows how important it is to infuse a young team with an equal number of solid veterans.  Those kids never would have gone very far without that veteran presence.

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 minutes ago, Weave said:

 

The vets added were critical to the success of that team.  Shows how important it is to infuse a young team with an equal number of solid veterans.  Those kids never would have gone very far without that veteran presence.

The difference is that under TM we went all young vet and forgot about development.  Nothing wrong with adding vets to a core group of your prospect, but you have to build from within first.  

[Weave]

24 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The difference is that under TM we went all young vet and forgot about development.  Nothing wrong with adding vets to a core group of your prospect, but you have to build from within first.  

I don't think you are right.  I think you need the vets already there when the kids show up.  Just like the post Hasek rebuild.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Weave

[dudacek]

43 minutes ago, Weave said:

 

The vets added were critical to the success of that team.  Shows how important it is to infuse a young team with an equal number of solid veterans.  Those kids never would have gone very far without that veteran presence.

Another aspect of that team was that the kids weren’t babies.

Vanek was 21, Roy 22, Pominville 23 and Miller 25.

[Taro T]

14 minutes ago, Weave said:

I don't think you are right.  I think you need the vets already there when the kids show up.  Just like the post Hasek rebuild.

Umm, of the vets listed, Numminen & Lydman were broughtin during the summer of '05 & Grier had only comein @ the trade deadline right before the lockout.

Hecht was the only one to have even played 2 full seasons as a Sabre pre-lockout.

Those vets were, for all intents & purposes, added w/ the kids; not before.

[Weave]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Umm, of the vets listed, Numminen & Lydman were broughtin during the summer of '05 & Grier had only comein @ the trade deadline right before the lockout.

Hecht was the only one to have even played 2 full seasons as a Sabre pre-lockout.

Those vets were, for all intents & purposes, added w/ the kids; not before.

 

But they were added with them.  The kids weren't left to flounder for several years before they were added.  I stand by my point.  You don't build a team with a mess of kids.  You need vets to show the kids the way.  Enough vets to make sure there isn't a locker room rift.

[French Collection]

14 minutes ago, Weave said:

 

But they were added with them.  The kids weren't left to flounder for several years before they were added.  I stand by my point.  You don't build a team with a mess of kids.  You need vets to show the kids the way.  Enough vets to make sure there isn't a locker room rift.

That's what Gionta and Gorges were supposed to do. They were undermined by the tank.

[Taro T]

14 minutes ago, Weave said:

 

But they were added with them.  The kids weren't left to flounder for several years before they were added.  I stand by my point.  You don't build a team with a mess of kids.  You need vets to show the kids the way.  Enough vets to make sure there isn't a locker room rift.

And this team under Murray added a lot of vets: Gionta, Gorges, O'Reilly, Moulson, Okposo, Kane, & Bogosian at a minimum.  (McGinn & Legwand as well.)  That's half a roster's worth.  They were the wrong vets, but they were added veterans.

[Weave]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

And this team under Murray added a lot of vets: Gionta, Gorges, O'Reilly, Moulson, Okposo, Kane, & Bogosian at a minimum.  (McGinn & Legwand as well.)  That's half a roster's worth.  They were the wrong vets, but they were added veterans.

 

I agree.  TM added vets.  Not the right ones.  But he did.  My posting here has been more directed at those that constantly call for the vets to be jettisoned to bring more kids into the lineup.  We don't need more kids in this lienup.

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, Weave said:

 

I agree.  TM added vets.  Not the right ones.  But he did.  My posting here has been more directed at those that constantly call for the vets to be jettisoned to bring more kids into the lineup.  We don't need more kids in this lienup.

Ahhh.  OK.  Fair enough.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

 

I agree.  TM added vets.  Not the right ones.  But he did.  My posting here has been more directed at those that constantly call for the vets to be jettisoned to bring more kids into the lineup.  We don't need more kids in this lienup.

By why add Moulson, Gorges and Gionta when you only kept 5 kids (Girgensons, Eichel, McCabe, Risto and Reino) and traded away every other near ready prospect?  Dumb.  ROR, Kane,  Lehner  and Bogo where young vets, but vets.  Why did they need Moulson et al?

Jbot is finally doing it right.  He has added vets to tutor the kids, their names are Pommers, Scandella, Berglund, Sheary, Hunwick, Hutton and Sobotka, and unlike Moulson and Gorges,  these guys (ok except maybe Pommers) can still play hockey and are young enough to contribute for 2 or more years.

[Doohickie]

I'm not sure Sobotka or Hunwick will be any more effective as players than Pommers.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Hunwick doesn't have to be that good, he is just here for depth.  Sobotka can still play.  He still can skate and wins draws.  He just turned 31 and had 31 pts last season.  I don't see anything in general stats that says he can't play, but I'm not a advanced stat guy.

[Weave]

5 hours ago, Doohickie said:

I'm not sure Sobotka or Hunwick will be any more effective as players than Pommers.

Yeah, I don't know how we can judge this crop of vets just yet.  IMO there are still questions there.

[Weave]

7 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

By why add Moulson, Gorges and Gionta when you only kept 5 kids (Girgensons, Eichel, McCabe, Risto and Reino) and traded away every other near ready prospect?  Dumb.  ROR, Kane,  Lehner  and Bogo where young vets, but vets.  Why did they need Moulson et al?

Jbot is finally doing it right.  He has added vets to tutor the kids, their names are Pommers, Scandella, Berglund, Sheary, Hunwick, Hutton and Sobotka, and unlike Moulson and Gorges,  these guys (ok except maybe Pommers) can still play hockey and are young enough to contribute for 2 or more years.

I think the primary reason guys like Moulson were signed was to meet the cap floor.  But he was also expect d to mentor our tankfruit as well.  At the time he was signed, we weren’t going to get him for a 1 yr deal.

 

I think French Collection has it right. The tank and subsequent hangover undermined what was supposed to be good mentorship.

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

At the time he was signed, we weren’t going to get him for a 1 yr deal.

At the time it seemed like a victory for the Sabres because a free agent actually signed with us.  The perception was that the Sabres were so bad, Buffalo was not in a position to woo free agents.  So the fact that we signed one, especially one that had been here and got traded away at the deadline and decided to come back, was a moral victory.  No one foresaw how awful he would get so quickly.