5th line wingnutt Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 Schadenfreudelicious Of interest to New Yorkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 27 minutes ago, 5th line wingnutt said: Schadenfreudelicious Of interest to New Yorkers. New Yorkers and anyone in a so-called "blue state," really. Cutting the SALT deduction was aimed at such states. I can't wait to read the complaint. It's going to have to be a pretty interesting legal theory; I don't know why taxpayers would be entitled to SALT deductions as a matter of right. Maybe there's some sort of states' rights angle on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 14 minutes ago, Eleven said: New Yorkers and anyone in a so-called "blue state," really. Cutting the SALT deduction was aimed at such states. I can't wait to read the complaint. It's going to have to be a pretty interesting legal theory; I don't know why taxpayers would be entitled to SALT deductions as a matter of right. Maybe there's some sort of states' rights angle on it. That seems to be what they're going for. And also that it's unfair for the Federal government to levy taxes that only target certain states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 So, their best hope of an argument is that $10,000 is not equally applied to States due to their varying tax rates. If the Federal Government instead said you are capped at 80% deduction that would be "equal". Of course be careful what you wish for... if you want pure states rights then the Federal Government should stipulate that 0% of your state taxes are deductible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 The party of lower taxes is actually for double taxation. No other way to look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, SwampD said: The party of lower taxes is actually for double taxation. No other way to look at it. They think they can subsidize red states by crushing the blues states, failing to realize how important the wealthy blue states are to the entire national economy. I don't mind paying a fair share or anything, but this would hurt everyone, not just us blue-staters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, SwampD said: The party of lower taxes is actually for double taxation. No other way to look at it. Not really sure I am following you. The federal government is only taxing us once. The state government taxes us once. NYS could find a more creative way of dealing with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 11 minutes ago, LTS said: Not really sure I am following you. The federal government is only taxing us once. The state government taxes us once. NYS could find a more creative way of dealing with this. So you follow me just fine. They are taxing us on money we used to pay taxes. That's the definition of double taxation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 "They" are not double taxing us. The Republican led Federal Government is taxing us. The Democrat led State Government is taxing us. It is paying two taxes, but it's not double. There's a difference. Like if I have an apple and a carrot. I have two items, but not double of anything. Also.. this system has existed forever, so it's really not something you can attribute to the "party of lower taxes" can you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 21 minutes ago, LTS said: "They" are not double taxing us. The Republican led Federal Government is taxing us. The Democrat led State Government is taxing us. It is paying two taxes, but it's not double. There's a difference. Like if I have an apple and a carrot. I have two items, but not double of anything. Also.. this system has existed forever, so it's really not something you can attribute to the "party of lower taxes" can you? It doesn't matter that they are two different jurisdictions. In the past, we could deduct the state taxes we paid from our taxable income and thus not be taxed twice on the same monies. It is double taxation any way you want to explain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5th line wingnutt Posted July 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 It is only the evil, greedy 1 per centers that will suffer. Screw 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, 5th line wingnutt said: It is only the evil, greedy 1 per centers that will suffer. Screw 'em. I can't tell if this is a joke. But it's the middle class that will get killed on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5th line wingnutt Posted July 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 15 minutes ago, Eleven said: I can't tell if this is a joke. But it's the middle class that will get killed on this one. Why do you think this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 Just now, 5th line wingnutt said: Why do you think this? Because one percenters have tax shelters available to them that you and I never will have. (This is why Trump won't release his tax returns.) The SALT deduction's effect on one percenters is completely negligible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5th line wingnutt Posted July 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Eleven said: Because one percenters have tax shelters available to them that you and I never will have. (This is why Trump won't release his tax returns.) The SALT deduction's effect on one percenters is completely negligible. How does this hurt the middle class? Edited July 18, 2018 by 5th line wingnutt typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabel79 Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 Just now, 5th line wingnutt said: How does this hurt the middles class? It takes money, which, as a percentage and in real terms, means so much more to them than it would to a wealthy person, out of their pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5th line wingnutt Posted July 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, Sabel79 said: It takes money, which, as a percentage and in real terms, means so much more to them than it would to a wealthy person, out of their pockets. It only hurts if you are paying more than 10K in state and local tax. How many middle class folks is this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, 5th line wingnutt said: It only hurts if you are paying more than 10K in state and local tax. How many middle class folks is this? I would assume, based on what I pay in taxes, that it would be pretty much every household with a combined income of $100k+ caveat: I am not a tax expert by any means. Edited July 18, 2018 by darksabre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, 5th line wingnutt said: It only hurts if you are paying more than 10K in state and local tax. How many middle class folks is this? 8 minutes ago, darksabre said: I would assume, based on what I pay in taxes, that it would be pretty much every household with a combined income of $100k+ caveat: I am not a tax expert by any means. A little higher than 100k but not by much. That's middle class in Buffalo. In parts of NYC, it's making ends meet. Edited July 18, 2018 by Eleven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 2 hours ago, Eleven said: A little higher than 100k but not by much. That's middle class in Buffalo. In parts of NYC, it's making ends meet. We have a 1700 sf cape in northern NJ. Our property taxes alone are $10k. When you look up middle class on Wikipedia, there is a picture of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 7 hours ago, SwampD said: So you follow me just fine. They are taxing us on money we used to pay taxes. That's the definition of double taxation. Eh. I don’t think this is right. Double taxation is more along the lines of paying corporate taxes on profits and then again on individual taxes after distribution. Same money taxed twice by the same taxing authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 14 minutes ago, SDS said: Eh. I don’t think this is right. Double taxation is more along the lines of paying corporate taxes on profits and then again on individual taxes after distribution. Same money taxed twice by the same taxing authority. It's double taxation. You may think it's okay. That's a different argument. But it is double taxation. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_taxation And yes, I know Wiki links are lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 hour ago, SwampD said: It's double taxation. You may think it's okay. That's a different argument. But it is double taxation. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_taxation And yes, I know Wiki links are lame. I stand corrected. However, I have never heard this argument in the context of SALT. It has always been associated with corporate taxes and individual taxes... In this broader definition, double taxation happens all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabel79 Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 10 minutes ago, SDS said: I stand corrected. However, I have never heard this argument in the context of SALT. It has always been associated with corporate taxes and individual taxes... In this broader definition, double taxation happens all the time. It's coming up now re: SALT because, as noted above, of recent changes to the tax code. It's conceptually the same as corporate double-taxation, but unlike corporate shareholders, I retain full personal liability for all the awful #### I do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 7 minutes ago, Sabel79 said: It's coming up now re: SALT because, as noted above, of recent changes to the tax code. It's conceptually the same as corporate double-taxation, but unlike corporate shareholders, I retain full personal liability for all the awful #### I do... I understand. It was an ingenious and completely unethical way to screw Blue states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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