SCOTUS: How did we get here, and where are we going?

[LTS]

16 hours ago, Hank said:

Election hacking? Still? Really?? C'mon...

Hank - Have you experience in the field of cybersecurity or any experience with hacking in general?

 

[Hank]

58 minutes ago, LTS said:

Hank - Have you experience in the field of cybersecurity or any experience with hacking in general?

 

No, not at all. 

[LGR4GM]

14 hours ago, Hank said:

Businesses ARE the employers. No?

Separately, WHY do you think a recession is coming? Based on what?

Fixed it.

At some point the student loan debt bubble will break. Wages are not keeping up with inflation. Basically between 2001 and 2018 the salary of the middle class actually went down in terms of real buying power. Everything costs more, cars, phones, housing, kids and you add student loan debt onto that and you have a problem. At some point consumer buying power will wain unless wages increase. I am doubtful of that correction. Most jobs being created are lower paying hourly jobs and that is also a concern. 

[LTS]

3 hours ago, Hank said:

No, not at all. 

For what it's worth I would not dismiss what I am saying so easily then. The battle over information control and the use of that information to influence policy and public opinion is mostly never seen by many and certainly not understood by most.

If you aren't familiar with the SuperMicro incident the basic premise is that rather than try and hack the systems themselves the manufacturer of a chip that goes onto the motherboard that SuperMicro used in their supplies to companies like Amazon and Apple introduced backdoor that allowed them access to the systems, bypassing the OS, etc.  It was found out eventually and stopped, although quite quietly.  The recent reports are all based on statements with no hard acknowledgement of it ever happening.  Could imagine what would happen to the stock of Amazon or Apple if it was publicly acknowledged their corporate and cloud systems were compromised?

My statement was long the same lines that election hacking could be engineered the same way. It seems far-fetched, but in reality, it's not all that difficult to do. A lot of these things are brought about by slowly manipulating the system and guiding it where you want it to go. The "breaches" that we get to hear about on the news are not the same kind of attack nor are they designed for the same purpose.

The things that are possible these days is incredible. I'm no longer as knowledgeable as I was in my earlier years but given the growth of the information age I don't see it lessening. Back then, what the public knew as possible and what was really possible were not even close. I would laugh at what was reported in the news or depicted in things like War Games. While certainly accurate they were nothing compared to what I knew was going on and I will readily admit I was only minimally involved with such activities.

 

[LTS]

Interestingly enough.. this came out today.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-09/new-evidence-of-hacked-supermicro-hardware-found-in-u-s-telecom?srnd=premium

More details on how the Ethernet ports were modified on the systems that were being sent out.

Again... you only ever know about the tip of the iceberg.

[Hank]

5 hours ago, LTS said:

For what it's worth I would not dismiss what I am saying so easily then. The battle over information control and the use of that information to influence policy and public opinion is mostly never seen by many and certainly not understood by most.

If you aren't familiar with the SuperMicro incident the basic premise is that rather than try and hack the systems themselves the manufacturer of a chip that goes onto the motherboard that SuperMicro used in their supplies to companies like Amazon and Apple introduced backdoor that allowed them access to the systems, bypassing the OS, etc.  It was found out eventually and stopped, although quite quietly.  The recent reports are all based on statements with no hard acknowledgement of it ever happening.  Could imagine what would happen to the stock of Amazon or Apple if it was publicly acknowledged their corporate and cloud systems were compromised?

My statement was long the same lines that election hacking could be engineered the same way. It seems far-fetched, but in reality, it's not all that difficult to do. A lot of these things are brought about by slowly manipulating the system and guiding it where you want it to go. The "breaches" that we get to hear about on the news are not the same kind of attack nor are they designed for the same purpose.

The things that are possible these days is incredible. I'm no longer as knowledgeable as I was in my earlier years but given the growth of the information age I don't see it lessening. Back then, what the public knew as possible and what was really possible were not even close. I would laugh at what was reported in the news or depicted in things like War Games. While certainly accurate they were nothing compared to what I knew was going on and I will readily admit I was only minimally involved with such activities.

 

Influencing public opinion with the use of a chip in a supermicro. Is it illegal?

[Sabel79]

33 minutes ago, Hank said:

Influencing public opinion with the use of a chip in a supermicro. Is it illegal?

No, not what's allegedly happened (or is happening).  Using a chip to alter/steal data.  Absolutely illegal.  

[Hank]

5 minutes ago, Sabel79 said:

No, not what's allegedly happened (or is happening).  Using a chip to alter/steal data.  Absolutely illegal.  

Thank you, I had no idea if it was or not. 

[LTS]

Right, the idea of this particular hack would be to gather information.

It's very much like using human assets as spies.  You don't have your spy do any real dirty work unless absolutely necessary. The spy gathers the information to drive other courses of action based on that information. You never want to give up your inside position.  Similar to the fact that once you know you have a spy (or hack) in your midst you don't just run out and turn it off and alert your enemy that you found it. You begin by isolating it and then attempt to use that resource against your enemy without their knowledge.

While direct action can result in quick change it almost always does so with large scale collateral damage and usually doesn't last long because it results in dramatic change all at once. The subtle, long term, persuasion into the desired state may take longer but it tends to stick because people actually believe it's the best course of action without knowing they were subverted into believing that way.

Lemmings readily jump off a cliff when it's time, but if you try to push them too soon, they will resist.

[TrueBlueGED]

On 10/7/2018 at 3:44 PM, LTS said:

Over/under on when the 2 term limit for Presidency is rescinded?

Now I've done it.

In this political climate, I don't think a constitutional amendment saying "terrorism is bad" could be ratified, let alone anything substantive. I'm serious. I think amending the constitution is fundamentally impossible today and for the foreseeable future. 

As to the histrionics about dictator Trump that followed....(I miss the wallbash emoticon)

[Drunkard]

On ‎10‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 9:11 AM, LTS said:

Lemmings readily jump off a cliff when it's time, but if you try to push them too soon, they will resist.

They don't really do that. It was faked by some Disney nature documentary in 1958. It's listed under the misconceptions section.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemming

[LTS]

27 minutes ago, Alkoholist said:

They don't really do that. It was faked by some Disney nature documentary in 1958. It's listed under the misconceptions section.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemming

Sweet.  I'll stop using that reference.  Let's talk about sheep.  ?  Billy Connolly once talked about sheep and cliffs.

 

[Drunkard]

12 minutes ago, LTS said:

Sweet.  I'll stop using that reference.  Let's talk about sheep.  ?  Billy Connolly once talked about sheep and cliffs.

 

George Carlin once asked "Do you why when a rancher f*#ks a sheep, he does it at the edge of a cliff? It's so the sheep will push back".

Good old sheep f*#king. It ain't love, but it ain't baaaaaaad either.

[LTS]

17 hours ago, Alkoholist said:

George Carlin once asked "Do you why when a rancher f*#ks a sheep, he does it at the edge of a cliff? It's so the sheep will push back".

Good old sheep f*#king. It ain't love, but it ain't baaaaaaad either.

That's the same thing Billy Connolly said... first thing that pops up if you search it.  ?

I miss George Carlin.

[LGR4GM]

Speaking of the Supreme Court... wonder how they will rule on this laws passed in Georgia and Alabama recently. 

[Marvin]

Historical perspective from someone who has lived through lots of this.

This has been brewing on the cultural right as far back as Brown vs. Board of Education.  It got a push with the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act.  It got its biggest push with Roe vs. Wade.  It finally broke out into full-blown partisan litmus tests ever since Robert Bork was stopped from serving on the Supreme Court -- many of my fellow conservatives have been trying to obstruct every nominee who might have been more liberal than he.  A majority of partisans I know talk about "getting even" - Bork on the Court and impeaching and removing a Democrat for "being a Democrat."  IMHO, this is a complete misreading of Watergate and of Robert Bork's role thereto.  As a Watergate Junkie, I can give you all sorts of stuff information if you ask.

For those of you who do not remember Watergate, Robert Bork fired Special Prosecutor Archibald Cox after his two superiors, Eliot Richardson and William Ruckleshaus, resigned to protest the order.  IMHO, that makes him Richard Nixon's hatchet man for the Saturday Night Massacre, who put partisan interests above the country's best interests.

I can't even explain the extraordinary outrage that was directed at Bork.  His demeanour under stress was most understandable, but did not help him in the least.  I always felt that the visceral negative reaction to him had nothing to do with the press, but was people subconsciously remembering his role in Watergate.  It did not matter to me that both Richardson and Ruckleshaus testified on his behalf at his Supreme Court hearings.  For me, he was automatically disqualified for firing Archibald Cox, no matter what else I thought of him.  After 45 years and a change from Liberal-Libertarian to Libertarian-Conservative, that has not changed.

[LGR4GM]

Well if they want to get even, they spent something like 290 days not holding hearings for Garland so... basically preventing his appointment. 

The interesting thing is not the abortion thing on its own. That is another debate. The interesting thing is what happens when the Supreme Court starts regularly over-ruling precedent? Especially a precedent that has been reaffirmed on several other occasions and with laws not grounded in any sort of science.

Edited May 21, 2019 by LGR4GM

[Weave]

On 5/21/2019 at 8:29 AM, LGR4GM said:

Well if they want to get even, they spent something like 290 days not holding hearings for Garland so... basically preventing his appointment. 

The interesting thing is not the abortion thing on its own. That is another debate. The interesting thing is what happens when the Supreme Court starts regularly over-ruling precedent? Especially a precedent that has been reaffirmed on several other occasions and with laws not grounded in any sort of science.

And the right used to rail on about activist judges.....

45 years of settled case law.  This is the definition of judicial activism.

[North Buffalo]

Though have to admit, both parties use the same old arguments for stuff the dont like about the other.  Should view some of the muck raking journalism at the last turn of the century and the political cartoons... amazingly similar... 

political cartoons of the 1920s and 1930s

 

Love the Dr Seuss one... first could apply to either party on the outs.

Edited May 23, 2019 by North Buffalo

[5th line wingnutt]

On 5/23/2019 at 7:28 PM, Weave said:

And the right used to rail on about activist judges.....

45 years of settled case law.  This is the definition of judicial activism.

There is no such thing as "settled law".  The New Deal court of the mid 1930s overturned precedents that were a over century old.

[Marvin]

Just so that everyone understands why some potentially reasonable arguments might fail.  Let me whittle this down to the most common arguments with the broadest appeal across the country.  Where possible, I will use direct quotes that were delivered in serious political debates in conversational tones.  Believe it or not, in many political circles, this is not considered inflammatory, illogical, or anything else negative that you might say about it.  My primary sources are national mailings.

Those of you who follow pseudo-conservative media will understand the reasoning below.

Merrick Garland is 100% irrelevant.  Did he overturn the Voting Rights Act, the Civil Rights Act, and Roe vs. Wade in the mid 1980's as Bork would have done?   Did he stop a Commie Kenyan from getting elected?  Did he un-genocide all the babies from 1972 onward?  Is Vince Foster still alive?

If he did not do all of these, then what happened to him does not matter.  You obviously do not understand because you hate America.

Edited May 28, 2019 by E4 ... Ke2

[LGR4GM]

8 hours ago, E4 ... Ke2 said:

Just so that everyone understands why some potentially reasonable arguments might fail.  Let me whittle this down to the most common arguments with the broadest appeal across the country.  Where possible, I will use direct quotes that were delivered in serious political debates in conversational tones.  Believe it or not, in many political circles, this is not considered inflammatory, illogical, or anything else negative that you might say about it.  My primary sources are national mailings.

Those of you who follow pseudo-conservative media will understand the reasoning below.

Merrick Garland is 100% irrelevant.  Did he overturn the Voting Rights Act, the Civil Rights Act, and Roe vs. Wade in the mid 1980's as Bork would have done?   Did he stop a Commie Kenyan from getting elected?  Did he un-genocide all the babies from 1972 onward?  Is Vince Foster still alive?

If he did not do all of these, then what happened to him does not matter.  You obviously do not understand because you hate America.

What? I am lost. I get where your going with the far right media stuff but got lost at the end. Is that what they will say of people who don't agree with them? 

Edited May 28, 2019 by LGR4GM

[TrueBlueGED]

Today, Mitch McConnell said if a Supreme Court vacancy happens in 2020, the Senate will fill it. This is, of course, wholly unsurprising. What's going to be funny is watching everyone who twisted themselves into pretzels to make (really bad) arguments about why it's appropriate to hold a seat open during a presidential election year suddenly make arguments as to why a vacancy must be filled ASAP regardless of timing on the political calendar. 

[Weave]

39 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Today, Mitch McConnell said if a Supreme Court vacancy happens in 2020, the Senate will fill it. This is, of course, wholly unsurprising. What's going to be funny is watching everyone who twisted themselves into pretzels to make (really bad) arguments about why it's appropriate to hold a seat open during a presidential election year suddenly make arguments as to why a vacancy must be filled ASAP regardless of timing on the political calendar. 

Quote

It's almost as if partisanship rules everything and incredibly few people have true ideological moorings, despite vigorous protestations to the contrary. 

 

[TrueBlueGED]

1 minute ago, Weave said:

 

Indeed! Yes, those who go down this road will be insulted by the very notion it's partisanship at work.