TM’s Legacy as GM?

[GASabresIUFAN]

Lehner gone

Fasching and Delo gone

Kane gone

ROR gone

Bogo gone soon? Maybe?

KO still here with his big contract

Kulikov gone

 

Funny but his long-term legacy might come from his draft picks as crazy as they might sound.

 

He conducted 3 drafts as the Sabres GM. Obviously Eichel and Reinhart are two core pieces he drafted from the tank, but other picks are actually showing some life despite some other horrendous Selections.

 

2014. Reinhart plus 3rd goalie Johansson looks to have a future here and 7th rd pick Olofsson has finally signed and could be a real find as a scoring winger.

2015. Eichel. 2nd rd pick Guhle looks to have a bright NHL future and is our top D prospect not named Dahlin. Also 4th rd D Borgen also inked an ELC after an excellent college career.

2016. Nylander at the top is a huge ? And if he becomes a bust that will taint TM’s legacy future especially with Segachev still on the board. However, 2nd rd pick Asplund , the key to the lousy Kulikov trade looks like a legit NHL forward in the near future. Also 3rd picks Pu and Fitzgerald also could have an NHL future. Pu is set to start his pro career in Rochester.

 

That’s a possible 10 NHL players drafted over 3 years. If that comes to pass, we may have to re-evaluate at least the draft piece of his legacy. To bad he didn’t keep all the picks he had in his quiver.

[Randall Flagg]

For the reasons you hint at right off the bat, I doubt we remember much about him a decade from now.

[thesportsbuff]

I will always remember him fondly. It's easy to say in retrospect that he made terrible moves and ruined the team, but I loved his aggressive nature. I think he had the team on the right path. I still feel he should have been given another year to fix things -- and I wonder what happened that day. We were all expecting Bylsma to be fired, but not many truly expected Murray to be let go too. I still wonder if he took the fall b/c of an ultimatum to fire Bylsma that he didn't agree with. Maybe we'll never know.

 

But I think when you are hired as the GM to lead a tank job -- and ownership is clearly on board with your plan -- you need to be given more than two seasons post-tank to rebuild things. Oh well.

[Weave]

If he ends up with 3 picks from each draft having an NHL career, he’s done better than most.

 

And if he was able to hit on 3 per year, IMO he was justified in moving other picks for players. That hit rate is adequate to keep a farm system stocked.

Edited July 3, 2018 by We've

[inkman]

If he ends up with 3 picks from each draft having an NHL career, he’s done better than most.

 

And if he was able to hit on 3 per year, IMO he was justified in moving other picks for players. That hit rate is adequate to keep a farm system stocked.

Wait I thought we were supposed to hate GMTM for stripping this org of all of its depth?

Lehner gone

Fasching and Delo gone

Kane gone

ROR gone

Bogo gone soon? Maybe?

KO still here with his big contract

Kulikov gone

 

Funny but his long-term legacy might come from his draft picks as crazy as they might sound.

 

He conducted 3 drafts as the Sabres GM. Obviously Eichel and Reinhart are two core pieces he drafted from the tank, but other picks are actually showing some life despite some other horrendous Selections.

 

2014. Reinhart plus 3rd goalie Johansson looks to have a future here and 7th rd pick Olofsson has finally signed and could be a real find as a scoring winger.

2015. Eichel. 2nd rd pick Guhle looks to have a bright NHL future and is our top D prospect not named Dahlin. Also 4th rd D Borgen also inked an ELC after an excellent college career.

2016. Nylander at the top is a huge ? And if he becomes a bust that will taint TM’s legacy future especially with Segachev still on the board. However, 2nd rd pick Asplund , the key to the lousy Kulikov trade looks like a legit NHL forward in the near future. Also 3rd picks Pu and Fitzgerald also could have an NHL future. Pu is set to start his pro career in Rochester.

 

That’s a possible 10 NHL players drafted over 3 years. If that comes to pass, we may have to re-evaluate at least the draft piece of his legacy. To bad he didn’t keep all the picks he had in his quiver.

I don't need to re-evaluate GMTM. He wasn't as bad as everyone is now purporting. I agree with most of what you said minus Johansson. He's been pretty awful as a pro.

[nucci]

We're still in last place.

[SDS]

We're still in last place.

Consistency is difficult to achieve at the highest levels. Kudos to all.

[bob_sauve28]

Lehner gone

Fasching and Delo gone

Kane gone

ROR gone

Bogo gone soon? Maybe?

KO still here with his big contract

Kulikov gone

Funny but his long-term legacy might come from his draft picks as crazy as they might sound.

He conducted 3 drafts as the Sabres GM. Obviously Eichel and Reinhart are two core pieces he drafted from the tank, but other picks are actually showing some life despite some other horrendous Selections.

2014. Reinhart plus 3rd goalie Johansson looks to have a future here and 7th rd pick Olofsson has finally signed and could be a real find as a scoring winger.

2015. Eichel. 2nd rd pick Guhle looks to have a bright NHL future and is our top D prospect not named Dahlin. Also 4th rd D Borgen also inked an ELC after an excellent college career.

2016. Nylander at the top is a huge ? And if he becomes a bust that will taint TM’s legacy future especially with Segachev still on the board. However, 2nd rd pick Asplund , the key to the lousy Kulikov trade looks like a legit NHL forward in the near future. Also 3rd picks Pu and Fitzgerald also could have an NHL future. Pu is set to start his pro career in Rochester.

That’s a possible 10 NHL players drafted over 3 years. If that comes to pass, we may have to re-evaluate at least the draft piece of his legacy. To bad he didn’t keep all the picks he had in his quiver.

That last sentence. There is a lot of pressure to turn things around quickly.

[That Aud Smell]

[Ho-Chi-Sock]

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Consistency is difficult to achieve at the highest levels. Kudos to all.

 

I like sarcastic SDS.

 

:lol:  :lol:

[Derrico]

If he ends up with 3 picks from each draft having an NHL career, he’s done better than most.

 

And if he was able to hit on 3 per year, IMO he was justified in moving other picks for players. That hit rate is adequate to keep a farm system stocked.

Sure.  But he was also handed much more picks and high end picks than most.  Most GM's aren't picking 2nd overall two years in a row.  Those should be guaranteed NHL players.

 

That team was stripped down for future draft picks before he got there.  He ended up with 3 high end second round picks in 2014 and missed on two (Cornell and Karabacek) and the jury is still out on Lemieux.  The 2014 draft was nearly a complete disaster.  Reinhart was second overall and outside of that he may end up with a steal in Oloffson in the 7th round.  Otherwise he had 6 picks in the first 3 rounds and missed on everyone except 2nd overall.

[Doohickie]

His legacy is a couple of pot holes (the Reino and Eich tank years) and a speed bump (the accelerated rebuild that didn't pan out).  He won't be remembered for too much more than that.

[SwampD]

Wasn't he that GM who called his owner a ######?

[ubkev]

Wasn't he that GM who called his owner a ######?

Allegedly

[bunomatic]

I will always remember him fondly. It's easy to say in retrospect that he made terrible moves and ruined the team, but I loved his aggressive nature. I think he had the team on the right path. I still feel he should have been given another year to fix things -- and I wonder what happened that day. We were all expecting Bylsma to be fired, but not many truly expected Murray to be let go too. I still wonder if he took the fall b/c of an ultimatum to fire Bylsma that he didn't agree with. Maybe we'll never know.

 

But I think when you are hired as the GM to lead a tank job -- and ownership is clearly on board with your plan -- you need to be given more than two seasons post-tank to rebuild things. Oh well.

I too loved his aggressive nature but for me that was part of having lived through the Regier years which were slow and methodical ( glacial ). 

[darksabre]

I too loved his aggressive nature but for me that was part of having lived through the Regier years which were slow and methodical ( glacial ). 

I think that was the thing about GMTM. We were sooooo sick of Darcy that GMTM was like a breath of fresh air. But I think he was an over-correction.

 

I think GMTM also bit off more than he could chew. I think the Pegulas probably wanted someone who could come in and right the ship quickly and he said "okay, I can do that". But it didn't work.

 

Perhaps a wiser GM would have told the Pegulas they needed to be more patient...

 

My hope is that Botterill is a happy medium between Darcy and GMTM. 

[bunomatic]

I think that was the thing about GMTM. We were sooooo sick of Darcy that GMTM was like a breath of fresh air. But I think he was an over-correction.

 

I think GMTM also bit off more than he could chew. I think the Pegulas probably wanted someone who could come in and right the ship quickly and he said "okay, I can do that". But it didn't work.

 

Perhaps a wiser GM would have told the Pegulas they needed to be more patient...

 

My hope is that Botterill is a happy medium between Darcy and GMTM. 

Agreed

[Weave]

Sure.  But he was also handed much more picks and high end picks than most.  Most GM's aren't picking 2nd overall two years in a row.  Those should be guaranteed NHL players.

 

That team was stripped down for future draft picks before he got there.  He ended up with 3 high end second round picks in 2014 and missed on two (Cornell and Karabacek) and the jury is still out on Lemieux.  The 2014 draft was nearly a complete disaster.  Reinhart was second overall and outside of that he may end up with a steal in Oloffson in the 7th round.  Otherwise he had 6 picks in the first 3 rounds and missed on everyone except 2nd overall.

 

And yet GA seems convinced we'll have 9-10 players out of three drafts.  Which is it, did he suck, or did he hit at a rate well above his contemporaries?

 

really, my only point in that post was to say, if he hit on that many picks, there was no good reason not to turn some of the other picks into "now" players.  Unfortunately, his success rate with those "now" players selections wasn't very good.

[Gatorman0519]

Eichel and Reinhart-no brainers

Fasching trade- embarrassing

Learner trade-embarrassing

Pysyk Trade-terrible...although if Asplund works out he saves it

Oloffson could be a home run

Pu and others- tbd

Kane trade- didn’t work out long term, tbd on the assets we get back

O Reilly-it was the right trade at the time, did not work out

Salary Cap- mismanaged

 

Toronto... 3 years later and a Cup Contender by comparison. The Sabres still have years to go imo.

Edited July 3, 2018 by Gatorman0519

[Derrico]

And yet GA seems convinced we'll have 9-10 players out of three drafts.  Which is it, did he suck, or did he hit at a rate well above his contemporaries?

 

really, my only point in that post was to say, if he hit on that many picks, there was no good reason not to turn some of the other picks into "now" players.  Unfortunately, his success rate with those "now" players selections wasn't very good.

I think it's a bit of both.  We were very high on Bailey and Baptiste and look how they're turning out.  Way too early to tell at this point.

 

My other, larger point, was yes he's hit on some players but he's had more high end picks than most GM's.  Most GM's aren't picking consecutively second overall with multiple extra second and third round picks.  He should have a higher hit success rate with more selections.

[dudacek]

I think it's a bit of both.  We were very high on Bailey and Baptiste and look how they're turning out.  Way too early to tell at this point.

 

My other, larger point, was yes he's hit on some players but he's had more high end picks than most GM's.  Most GM's aren't picking consecutively second overall with multiple extra second and third round picks.  He should have a higher hit success rate with more selections.

 

Five years, minimum.

We've already quit on Nylander and are high on Olofsson despite the fact Nylander had pretty much the identical numbers as a 19-year-old AHLer that Olofsson had as 21-year-old SHLer.

Development is a funny thing.

[Weave]

I think it's a bit of both.  We were very high on Bailey and Baptiste and look how they're turning out.  Way too early to tell at this point.

 

My other, larger point, was yes he's hit on some players but he's had more high end picks than most GM's.  Most GM's aren't picking consecutively second overall with multiple extra second and third round picks.  He should have a higher hit success rate with more selections.

 

The criticism I responded to is that he traded away the extra selections, leaving us without enough picks.  The logic can't work both ways.  Either he had real good draft success leaving us with options that he took for trading excess picks for now players, or his draft success was because of all the swings at the plate.  They can't be both in play.

 

And this all is without those two 2nd overalls.  The point that was made involved all of the other picks.

[Mustache of God]

Murray enamored us with his brashness and was the opposite of Reiger and after 16 years of footing around he was a welcome change. At the time I loved how GMTM operated.

 

However, his legacy is now buried under a steaming pile of horse in one of his stables. For someone who gave no effs, he surely gets a big F from me in grading his tenure here. That could be upgraded to a C minus depending upon how Guhle, Pu, Oloffson, Asplund and Fitzgerald pan out.

 

The Kane trade was a failure because he vastly overpaid for it.

Lehner was a disaster.

He talked a big game about improving Rochester but it seemed like he had no clue there.

The O'Reilly trade was a great trade and was the only trade he made that we won. All others were tire-fires.

Let's not forget the Moulson contract.

Nylander is still "developing" but he's approaching BUST territory. The reports of the Cal O'Reilly treatment I think tarnishes the ROR move a bit because the only reason Cal was here was "I'll sign your bro if you sign here"

He also never addressed anything when things things started spinning out of control in his last year and if we're to believe Terry, there was no communication anywhere.

Not enough pee-pees were slapped, or maybe too many pee-pees were slapped and there wasn't a safe-word (another communication breakdown).

[Taro T]

To my view, his tenure will be viewed as a failure -rightly or wrongly, because the next guy did a 180 on what he had been working towards & a lot of pieces that MIGHT have fit here (such as Fasching, who made the big club in TC 2 years ago only to not get to play out of the gate due to injury) WON'T fit here with the emphasis on speed over size. Murray wanted big guys that could skate well (for big guys, being the typical caveat) and bring a heavy forecheck, but those players don't fit well into Botterill & Housley's speed 1st & foremost & w/ quick puck movement game.

 

And also, IMHO, when he remained wedded to Bylsma even though it was clear that what Bylsma was doing wasn't working & better coaches became available (looking at you Gallant), then he became part of the problem as well. And he needed to go at that point.

 

Yes, he overpaid a bit on trades, but as mentioned elsewhere he MAY have ended up w/ almost 3 keepers / draft. Had Regier been able to do that in the video scouting era, we never would've heard mention of a tank to come.

 

(Still no idea what he was thinking on Nylander though. ;))