Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
IKnowPhysics

Fire Jason Botterill

Recommended Posts

File this thread under “Fire Beane” after they traded Sammy and Darby.

 

Waste of time

 

This ^

 

He inherited a mess left by possibly the worst GM this franchise has ever seen.  If given time, he can evolve the Sabres like Beane & McDermott have done with the Bills.  He moved out pieces that were not part of the long-term solution.  He got rid of an overpriced supposed 2-way forward who had a putrid even-strength record and IMHO did the same thing here as he did when in Colorado.  The head coach decision may be questionable, but there were few options and everybody here seemed convinced that anything would be better than keeping Disco Dan.  I don't think the salaries in yesterday's trade coming back pose a significant problem and he has otherwise not generated new ridiculous contracts like Okposo's.  He is filling the roster with reasonable talent at a reasonable price vs. overpaying for KO or Moulson types.  I like what he's done with the Swedish invasion and investing in our defense in the future (Toronto will wish they had done this in the future).  To rebuild Rome, you have to first tear it down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And they started with a team salary of $0

 

 

Odds are that the main motivation on Sunday was to not have to pay the bonus due at the end of the day. That may not have been Jason's decision.

This is a good point. I wonder how much pressure was applied to move him before the bonus had to be paid once it was determined that he was no longer going to be part of the core going forward. You'd think it had to be ownership considering Murray was running things when the contract was signed.

 

As a fan I'd rather see them pay the bonus in order to raise the price while Terry drills another gas well but maybe he decided he didn't like the idea of paying 88% of O'Reilly's pay this season for him to produce for somebody else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Terry decided he wasn’t going to pay a guy who quit on him, I don’t blame him one bit.

Especially after giving him what was the richest contract in team history.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Terry decided he wasn’t going to pay a guy who quit on him, I don’t blame him one bit.

Especially after giving him what was the richest contract in team history.

Yep, easily could be this. Terry seems to have little concern buying out and paying other bad contracts but this could be the principle of the situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Terry decided he wasn’t going to pay a guy who quit on him, I don’t blame him one bit.

Especially after giving him what was the richest contract in team history.

 

ROR said alot.  He never quit on the ice.

 

They guy he apparently lost an internal struggle to did actually quit on the ice.  And was rewarded with a monster deal in the following offseason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ROR said alot. He never quit on the ice.

 

I continue to be positively baffled that people are putting more weight on public quotes than on-ice play. Truly, I am.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ROR said alot.  He never quit on the ice.

 

They guy he apparently lost an internal struggle to did actually quit on the ice.  And was rewarded with a monster deal in the following offseason.

 

I agree. The guy gave everything he had on every shift for a team that was absolutely awful. At the end of the year he expressed his frustration with all the losing... rightfully so for a competitive, proud player... and suddenly got lambasted as a "bad guy" and "locker-room cancer." Pretty unfair IMHO. We can argue whether he is a good player or not, fast enough, is a true #2 center, blah, blah, blah... but nothing in his game said he lacked character and heart on the ice. Nothing.

 

My guess is he asked for a trade out. Seven straight seasons with no playoffs for this franchise, with no end in sight. I can't imagine anyone in the prime of their career would want to play for this organization.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ROR said alot. He never quit on the ice.

 

They guy he apparently lost an internal struggle to did actually quit on the ice. And was rewarded with a monster deal in the following offseason.

I would dispute the idea that he “never” quit on the ice. He did his share of sleepwalking this year. Admitted it..

 

Guy worked his ass off for most of his Sabre career. But go through the game day threads and you will find your share of “what’s wrong with O’Reilly?” posts this season.

 

But that’s not the point.

If O’Reilly manouevered himself into a position to be traded - as it appears to me he did - then he quit on the organization

Edited by dudacek

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would dispute the idea that he “never” quit on the ice. He did his share of sleepwalking this year. Admitted it..

 

Guy worked his ass off for most of his Sabre career. But go through the game day threads and you will find your share of “what’s wrong with O’Reilly?” posts this season.

 

But that’s not the point.

If O’Reilly manouevered himself into a position to be traded - as it appears to me he did - then he quit on the organization

 

I'm not sure it is possible to not have down turns, sometimes for an extended period, on a historically bad team.  I can't think of another player that put in a better effort overall than ROR.  A small few were equal.  That's about it.  Our TankFruit certainly were not.

 

As for the 2nd point.  I'll give you that.  Put him on the same plane as Hasek, Drury, and Peca I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, here's my take, JBot inherited a backed up toilet of a team. he tried to flush it, but it just flowed over and made a bigger mess so he dug in and unclogged it, flushed the worst bits away and is now cleaning the bowl. The water should be flowing clear soon. 

 

Sometimes, a condemned outhouse can't be fixed with bits and pieces, it has to be torn down and rebuilt. 

eloquently stated.this team was rotten and smelly to the core. it  had to be purged. the sabres future looks very bright.

if kane and oreilly were such good players they would have helped the sabres win a few games. 3 1st round picks in 2019. 2 forwards who can actually play a bit of defense.

The closest thing to Bobby Orr in the past 15 yrs.

Cheer up kids.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, here's my take, JBot inherited a backed up toilet of a team. he tried to flush it, but it just flowed over and made a bigger mess so he dug in and unclogged it, flushed the worst bits away and is now cleaning the bowl. The water should be flowing clear soon.

 

Sometimes, a condemned outhouse can't be fixed with bits and pieces, it has to be torn down and rebuilt.

Unfortunately, he threw the baby out with the.... toilet water.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately, he threw the baby out with the.... toilet water.

Cry baby?

 

The good news is the tear down is over. There's nothing more to tear down. The cap is in great shape, there's very little costly dead weight, it's all good. Moulson will just wither away in obscurity non issue. Maybe Bogo or Okposo are buyout candidates if they suck bad but not likely. No big issues. It's now all on how well he drafts just like any GM. 

We'll also be in a great position to try to nab any big name FA over the next couple years. Sounds like good management to me.

 

The bad news is this plan of JBot's has always been a slow methodical rebuild from the core out with young players and it is going to take a slow steady trajectory.  In the meantime, we'll all be sickened by Toronto Toronto Toronto...........might need to take a year or two off hockey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I absolutely love what Botterill is doing.  I'm shocked at how some of us are reacting to be honest.  There's veteran fans whom I respect greatly that are actually angry that more attention is being paid to the future than to win now - as if winning now was an option he chose against.  That's the philosophy that's made us one of the more unsuccessful organizations -  try to win now with a pile of crap and nothing coming through the organization.  Sign free agents to more than their worth and trade away futures so it looks like we're trying to win.  The insanity has to stop and Botterill is here to do it. 

 

This team he inherited was putrid, lacking of high end skill (beyond a couple players) and most of all heart.  That stops now!

 

We had to be almost completed gutted from Rochester to the big club - even to the point of eliminating it's current structure of failed leadership by it's best players.  Kane didn't even hear from the Sabres on an extension.  Lehner - bye and ROR shipped off.  There's a new standard. 

 

Smart decisions needed to be made with our young players abroad and he's made them.  This isn't a win next year situation - it's a you can't win next season.  You sure as heck can compete to another level and he's brought in some players to aid in that while he builds from within.  

 

I'm not sure why we're so up in arms as a fan base - especially when he's doing exactly what he said he would do.  

 

"The type of team that I would like to create here will be, in conjunction with the head coach that we bring in, is a team that plays a high tempo"

 

"To me, the goal of the organization needs to be year in and year out, competing at a high level, and one of those years you break through."

 

From a free agent standpoint, we will be involved with free agency. But I am a firm believer that you can’t build a team just through free agency, it has to come from within our organization.”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cry baby?

 

The good news is the tear down is over. There's nothing more to tear down. The cap is in great shape, there's very little costly dead weight, it's all good. Moulson will just wither away in obscurity non issue. Maybe Bogo or Okposo are buyout candidates if they suck bad but not likely. No big issues. It's now all on how well he drafts just like any GM.

We'll also be in a great position to try to nab any big name FA over the next couple years. Sounds like good management to me.

 

The bad news is this plan of JBot's has always been a slow methodical rebuild from the core out with young players and it is going to take a slow steady trajectory. In the meantime, we'll all be sickened by Toronto Toronto Toronto...........might need to take a year or two off hockey.

I like the optimism.

 

My concern is if Eichel misses any time with injury this becomes a slam dunk last place roster.

 

I don't think Botts is done dealing this summer. Risto and Reinhart are two big GMTM pieces that I don't think are Botterill type of guys. I'm expecting a Risto+ for top 6 scoring winger and LHD veteran to pair with Dahlin.

Edited by pi2000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To a certain degree I think ROR pouted that he wasn't named captain.  

 

Are the rumors true that him and Jack did not get along? If so was it because a young kid was challenging his leadership? 

 

Did it affect his game? IDK, did he have more to give? IDK. 

 

I too think he didn't get his way and maneuvered himself to be traded.

 

I'm not saying he was a problem but if he is that good a player and a leader in the room he wouldn't have been traded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the optimism.

 

My concern is if Eichel misses any time with injury this becomes a slam dunk last place roster.

 

I don't think Botts is done dealing this summer. Risto and Reinhart are two big GMTM pieces that I don't think are Botterill type of guys. I'm expecting a Risto+ for top 6 scoring winger and LHD veteran to pair with Dahlin.

 

 

Agree J Bot is not done, disagree that Reinhart or Risto are being moved -- J Bot has consistently talked both up and includes them in "his core" -- if you've listened over past several months, he rarely put ROR or Okposo in those comments --- I think he's stuck with Okposo and team has to hope he turns it around or gets LTIR for cap sake

 

 

Glad several posters realize what a mess GMTM made of this roster / franchise --- set the rebuild back at least 3 years, maybe more

 

 

Amazing that Reiger and the tank emptied the cupboard and GMTM took all the draft currency and squandered it like a drunken sailor

 

I think J bot has done admirable job and replenishing and righting the ship --- not sure about coach decision, but that's what year 2 will determine

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I absolutely love what Botterill is doing.  I'm shocked at how some of us are reacting to be honest.  There's veteran fans whom I respect greatly that are actually angry that more attention is being paid to the future than to win now - as if winning now was an option he chose against.  That's the philosophy that's made us one of the more unsuccessful organizations -  try to win now with a pile of crap and nothing coming through the organization.  Sign free agents to more than their worth and trade away futures so it looks like we're trying to win.  The insanity has to stop and Botterill is here to do it. 

 

This team he inherited was putrid, lacking of high end skill (beyond a couple players) and most of all heart.  That stops now!

 

We had to be almost completed gutted from Rochester to the big club - even to the point of eliminating it's current structure of failed leadership by it's best players.  Kane didn't even hear from the Sabres on an extension.  Lehner - bye and ROR shipped off.  There's a new standard. 

 

Smart decisions needed to be made with our young players abroad and he's made them.  This isn't a win next year situation - it's a you can't win next season.  You sure as heck can compete to another level and he's brought in some players to aid in that while he builds from within.  

 

I'm not sure why we're so up in arms as a fan base - especially when he's doing exactly what he said he would do.  

 

"The type of team that I would like to create here will be, in conjunction with the head coach that we bring in, is a team that plays a high tempo"

 

"To me, the goal of the organization needs to be year in and year out, competing at a high level, and one of those years you break through."

 

From a free agent standpoint, we will be involved with free agency. But I am a firm believer that you can’t build a team just through free agency, it has to come from within our organization.”

I agree with this post ^ unfortunately I have the patience of Tim Murray.lol  Hopefully JBotts leads us to the promised land.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the optimism.

 

My concern is if Eichel misses any time with injury this becomes a slam dunk last place roster.

 

I don't think Botts is done dealing this summer. Risto and Reinhart are two big GMTM pieces that I don't think are Botterill type of guys. I'm expecting a Risto+ for top 6 scoring winger and LHD veteran to pair with Dahlin.

 

Regier drafted Ristolainen, not Murray. Murray's first draft was 2014. We also have roughly twice as many LHD as we do RHD so if we trade him for another LHD to throw on the pile I think I'm going to mail FXGMJB a box of dog .

Edited by Alkoholist

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with this post ^ unfortunately I have the patience of Tim Murray.lol  Hopefully JBotts leads us to the promised land.

 

It's not fun - I wish it was here already too.  

 

It's critical that we stay focused on what we have.  Jack Eichel is a freak of nature and does things most players can't practice hard enough to do.  It appears Dahlin is that type of player as well.  You take your time when they're this young and make sure they can win throughout their entire career.  This is not something to trifle with.  That goes for ROR too.  

 

 

I'm not sure I can think of a better GM to handle this situation than JBot coming from one of the elite organizations in all of sports - and on top, one that had two super stars to handle.  Does anyone know how to take two superstars and build a pipeline and handle the cap so they can have an opportunity to win their entire career?  JBot:  "I do"

 

There's actually fans that are envisioning Eichel and Dahlin hating each other.  I mean it's psychotic what's going on around here.  

Edited by 7+6=13

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Upon further review, I have to give Botterill a generally positive review for this summer, at least based on what he had to do.

in my view the priorities were:

  • Add puck-movers on the blueline, including a top-four defenceman
  • Add some even strength scoring and NHL depth to the forward ranks
  • Clean up the mess that was the dressing room.
  • Get a goalie

What he did:

  • Draft Rasmus Dahlin, sign Lawrence Pilut, trade for Brandon Hickey
  • Traded for Conor Sheary, Patrik Berglund and Vladimir Sobotka who combined for 40 ES goals last year, as well TageThompson, a prospect considered to be a goal-scorer.
  • Flushed Kane, Lehner and O’Reilly - for better, or worse strong voices in the room - and turned over about half the roster, including Falk, Gorges, Antipin, Johnson, Pouliot, Nolan, and Josefson.
  • Targetted and signed free agent Carter Hutton.

Whether you thought he acquired the right players, or dumped the right players, he certainly identified the problem areas and took concrete steps to address them.

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Upon further review, I have to give Botterill a generally positive review for this summer, at least based on what he had to do.

in my view the priorities were:

  • Add puck-movers on the blueline, including a top-four defenceman
  • Add some even strength scoring and NHL depth to the forward ranks
  • Clean up the mess that was the dressing room.
  • Get a goalie

What he did:

  • Draft Rasmus Dahlin, sign Lawrence Pilut, trade for Brandon Hickey
  • Traded for Conor Sheary, Patrik Berglund and Vladimir Sobotka who combined for 40 ES goals last year, as well TageThompson, a prospect considered to be a goal-scorer.
  • Flushed Kane, Lehner and O’Reilly - for better, or worse strong voices in the room - and turned over about half the roster, including Falk, Gorges, Antipin, Johnson, Pouliot, Nolan, and Josefson.
  • Targetted and signed free agent Carter Hutton.

Whether you thought he acquired the right players, or dumped the right players, he certainly identified the problem areas and took concrete steps to address them.

 

The bolded is fair.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Upon further review, I have to give Botterill a generally positive review for this summer, at least based on what he had to do.

in my view the priorities were:

  • Add puck-movers on the blueline, including a top-four defenceman
  • Add some even strength scoring and NHL depth to the forward ranks
  • Clean up the mess that was the dressing room.
  • Get a goalie

What he did:

  • Draft Rasmus Dahlin, sign Lawrence Pilut, trade for Brandon Hickey
  • Traded for Conor Sheary, Patrik Berglund and Vladimir Sobotka who combined for 40 ES goals last year, as well TageThompson, a prospect considered to be a goal-scorer.
  • Flushed Kane, Lehner and O’Reilly - for better, or worse strong voices in the room - and turned over about half the roster, including Falk, Gorges, Antipin, Johnson, Pouliot, Nolan, and Josefson.
  • Targetted and signed free agent Carter Hutton.

Whether you thought he acquired the right players, or dumped the right players, he certainly identified the problem areas and took concrete steps to address them.

Nice change of heart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wish I could have the blind optimism that some of you do, but the roster as it stands is awful. Certainly there is some young talent, but that is almost entirely a function of a steady stream of top-10 picks courtesy of sucking so badly for the past 7/8 seasons. The team got 20 points worse under Botterill/Housley last season…. and we just ditched two 20+ goal scorers from the lowest scoring offense in the league. I don't see why putting together the worst team in the league, lucking into the first overall pick via the draft lottery, then selecting the obvious consensus #1 player on everyone's board constitutes great GM work by Botterill. Any one of us on this board could have done that.

I'll continue to hope for miracles and I'll never root against my team (I was decided anti-tank back in the day).... but I honestly believe we'll finish dead last, or close to it, again this season. Happy Independence Day y'all!

 

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some good discourse in here, which is what I was looking to foster when I posted the thread.  The clickbait thread title worked (notice that I haven't posted a post to justify firing Bots), and that was before I knew we gonna have a karma system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Iron Crotch said:

I wish I could have the blind optimism that some of you do, but the roster as it stands is awful. Certainly there is some young talent, but that is almost entirely a function of a steady stream of top-10 picks courtesy of sucking so badly for the past 7/8 seasons. The team got 20 points worse under Botterill/Housley last season…. and we just ditched two 20+ goal scorers from the lowest scoring offense in the league. I don't see why putting together the worst team in the league, lucking into the first overall pick via the draft lottery, then selecting the obvious consensus #1 player on everyone's board constitutes great GM work by Botterill. Any one of us on this board could have done that.

I'll continue to hope for miracles and I'll never root against my team (I was decided anti-tank back in the day).... but I honestly believe we'll finish dead last, or close to it, again this season. Happy Independence Day y'all!

 

Ditched?  As you wrote that post you realize that Kane would have been gone now whether the GM wanted him to be gone or not right?  

As for ROR being traded, the results of that trade are not even close to being realized.  However, you ignored the fact that two players came back in that deal both of whom can increase the scoring of the team.

The optimism for me is that the players that are gone have been replaced adequately enough.  The defense is improved and the goaltending as well.  Kane was largely irrelevant to the team in January and February when they were playing their best hockey of the season.  He was not even in the top 5 in scoring.  O'Reilly was consistently in the top 5 but his highest was when Eichel was out injured.

  W L OT WIN% GF GA GF/P GA/G GF/GA   1 2 3 4 5
October 3 7 2 25.00% 29 43 2.42 3.58 0.67   Kane Pominville Eichel O'Reilly Reinhart
November 3 8 2 23.08% 26 41 2.00 3.15 0.63   Kane Okposo O'Reilly Eichel Reinhart
December 4 5 4 30.77% 29 41 2.23 3.15 0.71   Eichel Kane O'Reilly Okposo McCabe
January 4 7 1 33.33% 31 40 2.58 3.33 0.78   Eichel Okposo Ristolainen O'Reilly Reinhart
February 5 6 2 38.46% 36 40 2.77 3.08 0.90   Reinhart O'Reilly Rodrigues Ristolainen Okposo
March 4 8 1 30.77% 26 48 2.00 3.69 0.54   Reinhart O'Reilly Pominville Ristolainen Eichel
April 0 4 0 0.00% 12 20 3.00 5.00 0.60   O'Reilly Rodrigues Pominville Reinhart Mittlestadt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...