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2018 - 2019 Sabres Prospects

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21 minutes ago, tom webster said:

1) Housley was not a hot commodity.  Incorrect! https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/florida-panthers/fl-sp-panthers-coaching-candidates-20170413-story.html

2) You have to get a better return  You have no idea what Tage will develop into or who we get with the 1st and how that person develops, unless that pick turns into Montour.  If that is the case and Tage develops, we end up with cap space, a top two pairing D (who is already proving an upgrade of what we had) and possibly a top 6 power forward.  That is a pretty solid return for ROR.

3) I’m not a big believer in the AHL development plan. There is no scientific method to prove that guys get better because they played in the AHL or just because they got older, stronger and more mature. For every guy that got better playing in the minors, there are hundreds that just stay as they are, not good enough.    I'll give you four examples from recent Sabres history; Brian Campbell, Ryan Miller, Jason Pominville and Derek Roy.  While not every guy gets better, many do.  From this year alone, Nylander and Olofsson are better hockey players today then they were to start the season.  AHL development works and has worked for decades, which is why the league has endured for 80 years.

4) JBOT has a lot to prove but so far this team has been considerably worse then they were the prior two years.  Jbot inherited an overpaid underachieving team and he has had the task of rebuilding the team properly through draft and development.  Yes, he has a lot to prove, but he actually has a plan as opposed to the failed administration of TM who traded away our depth and build an $80 mill (real $) team, which was the 4th most expensive team in the NHL, yet finished with 78 points.  

 

 

 

 

Edited by GASabresIUFAN
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A) wow, Housley got mentioned in an article in Florida. Find me one mention of him getting another interview or an explanation as to how JBOT waited and still got him from all the teams that wanted him. On top of that, the writer was so in tune with the organization, he didn’t mention the guy who got the job, hired while Housley was still available I might add.

B) it’s essentially ROR and Guhle for Montador and Thompson. Only reason there is any benefit in cap space is because he lucked out with Berglund leaving.

C) you know what else happens to players like Campbell , Roy and others? They got older. And you have no idea if Vic and Alex are any better for being down there. Old school guys would like you to believe that. They’d also like you to believe that fighting and plus/minus are important.

D) So far JBOT hasn’t improved the team at all other then tanking and allowing them to get Dahlin which may go down as his greatest achievement. I believe we are in the playoffs if GMTM is still here but probably no Dahlin do maybe it’s all worth it

Edited by tom webster

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Tom, I will have to disagree about making the playoffs if TM was in charge... he was an arrogant drunk... decent scout that couldn't evaluate actual talent in the NHL and overpaid for them.  Lehner.. too many alcohol pysch issue that needed to be addressed... ROR to a lesser extent... can't have a practicing alchy helping practicing alchy's quit.  They usually have psych issues raise their ugly head and torpedo everything they are doing. 

JBOT looks like he does have a decent eye but needs some time to build a decimated core and farm system... Housley has good ideas, but not sure he is the communicator/motivator and he needs to be and able to eval on the fly. 

Worst thing that could have happened to all of the Sabres was that early 10 game win streak... they got big headed...

The Montour trade was great imo and Sabres need to add 1-2 more like him.  Laaksonen could be one... Borgen looks like a tough compliment... bring back McCabe as a mentor and trade Risto, Scandella and keep Bogo as 7th D... Nelson... meh. 

Draft forwards and then a goalie and develop, develop, develop.  

And find a coach that knows how to deal with a young team. 

Not saying this all happened the way anyone wanted and I think ROR could with some patience been traded for more over time, but there was something off about him... it was time... 

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6 hours ago, tom webster said:

A) wow, Housley got mentioned in an article in Florida. Find me one mention of him getting another interview or an explanation as to how JBOT waited and still got him from all the teams that wanted him. On top of that, the writer was so in tune with the organization, he didn’t mention the guy who got the job, hired while Housley was still available I might add.

B) it’s essentially ROR and Guhle for Montador and Thompson. Only reason there is any benefit in cap space is because he lucked out with Berglund leaving.

C) you know what else happens to players like Campbell , Roy and others? They got older. And you have no idea if Vic and Alex are any better for being down there. Old school guys would like you to believe that. They’d also like you to believe that fighting and plus/minus are important.

D) So far JBOT hasn’t improved the team at all other then tanking and allowing them to get Dahlin which may go down as his greatest achievement. I believe we are in the playoffs if GMTM is still here but probably no Dahlin do maybe it’s all worth it

Friedman, Dreger, Johnson, McKenzie, LeBrun, whether it be on Twitter, Insider Trading, Saturday Night Headlines or various radio hits, all reported during the 2017 Coaching Search that Housley was one of the Top of the candidates on that list . An advisory committee from the NHL assisted the Pegulas in their search for a new GM and Coach, both  Botterill and Housely were high on those lists.  Housley hired an agent at the beginning of the 2017 Playoffs and with Nashville’s Permission he began screening various openings

And ROR should have brought back a better return package, but the rumor persists that the Sabres refused to pay the bonus, thereby reducing the return and the number of trade partners willing to deal. Carolina for example wanted a deal after the bonus was paid, Buffalo said no to this. The question is whose decision was it to not pay the bonus, Botterill or The Pegulas? 

Olofosson is certainly better for being in Rochester. His defensive play and play away from the puck needed work. Media that watches the team as well as Chris Taylor, Randy Sexton and Botterill all said the thing. 

GMTM if still here, there is a greater chance the Depth or the organization would be further depleted then it already is. The question that should be asked is where would this team be if PLF would have suggested hiring Botterill after he interviewed him rather than GMTM. Because I highly doubt all those 2015 Draft Picks would have been traded/

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3 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Friedman, Dreger, Johnson, McKenzie, LeBrun, whether it be on Twitter, Insider Trading, Saturday Night Headlines or various radio hits, all reported during the 2017 Coaching Search that Housley was one of the Top of the candidates on that list . An advisory committee from the NHL assisted the Pegulas in their search for a new GM and Coach, both  Botterill and Housely were high on those lists.  Housley hired an agent at the beginning of the 2017 Playoffs and with Nashville’s Permission he began screening various openings

And ROR should have brought back a better return package, but the rumor persists that the Sabres refused to pay the bonus, thereby reducing the return and the number of trade partners willing to deal. Carolina for example wanted a deal after the bonus was paid, Buffalo said no to this. The question is whose decision was it to not pay the bonus, Botterill or The Pegulas? 

Olofosson is certainly better for being in Rochester. His defensive play and play away from the puck needed work. Media that watches the team as well as Chris Taylor, Randy Sexton and Botterill all said the thing. 

GMTM if still here, there is a greater chance the Depth or the organization would be further depleted then it already is. The question that should be asked is where would this team be if PLF would have suggested hiring Botterill after he interviewed him rather than GMTM. Because I highly doubt all those 2015 Draft Picks would have been traded/

Ok, I’ll concede that people were talking about Housley. Who else interviewed him? The major point, however, is why did JBOT choose him? Even a cursory interview would have revealed he has no grasp of the information available to him. The sport is on the verge of technological epiphany and there is no evidence that he even knows whose playing well during a period. 

The ROR thing is debatable but the bottom line is the return leaves a lot to be desired. In his case, I have to believe a better coach handles that situation better.

As for the AHL, it’s all anecdotal evidence. There is no real way of knowing why someone gets better over time. Maybe they were that hood all along and just needed a chance. Maybe they just matured. Maybe there were reasons that Girgerenko cane with all those red flags and he was destined for failure no matter how he was handled.

finally, I believe history will look back on GMTM much better.

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, tom webster said:

A) wow, Housley got mentioned in an article in Florida. Find me one mention of him getting another interview or an explanation as to how JBOT waited and still got him from all the teams that wanted him. On top of that, the writer was so in tune with the organization, he didn’t mention the guy who got the job, hired while Housley was still available I might add.

B) it’s essentially ROR and Guhle for Montador and Thompson. Only reason there is any benefit in cap space is because he lucked out with Berglund leaving.

C) you know what else happens to players like Campbell , Roy and others? They got older. And you have no idea if Vic and Alex are any better for being down there. Old school guys would like you to believe that. They’d also like you to believe that fighting and plus/minus are important.

D) So far JBOT hasn’t improved the team at all other then tanking and allowing them to get Dahlin which may go down as his greatest achievement. I believe we are in the playoffs if GMTM is still here but probably no Dahlin do maybe it’s all worth it

Tom, I appreciate the humor.  This is one of the best posts this year.  Seriously, they are older therefore they are better. I guess we should build a team around 52 year old players.  

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53 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Ok, I’ll concede that people were talking about Housley. Who else interviewed him? The major point, however, is why did JBOT choose him? Even a cursory interview would have revealed he has no grasp of the information available to him. The sport is on the verge of technological epiphany and there is no evidence that he even knows whose playing well during a period. 

The ROR thing is debatable but the bottom line is the return leaves a lot to be desired. In his case, I have to believe a better coach handles that situation better.

As for the AHL, it’s all anecdotal evidence. There is no real way of knowing why someone gets better over time. Maybe they were that hood all along and just needed a chance. Maybe they just matured. Maybe there were reasons that Girgerenko cane with all those red flags and he was destined for failure no matter how he was handled.

finally, I believe history will look back on GMTM much better.

 

 

 

Buffalo and Florida were the openings and nobody could talk to Housley until the Preds were eliminated.

Stars, Kings, and Canucks all fired their coaches at the end of the season too, the latter two hiring from within, the Stars bringing back Hitchcock. Vegas also hired Gallant. All of those hirings happened in April.

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18 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Tom, I appreciate the humor.  This is one of the best posts this year.  Seriously, they are older therefore they are better. I guess we should build a team around 52 year old players.  

About what I’d expect.

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19 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Buffalo and Florida were the openings and nobody could talk to Housley until the Preds were eliminated.

Stars, Kings, and Canucks all fired their coaches at the end of the season too, the latter two hiring from within, the Stars bringing back Hitchcock. Vegas also hired Gallant. All of those hirings happened in April.

And Housley and Boughner now on chopping block.

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2 hours ago, North Buffalo said:

And Housley and Boughner now on chopping block.

Often happens with even the best young coaches on their first gig.  The coaches that win Cups are often on their 2nd or 3rd HC gig.  DB was the only coach in recent history to win the Cup during his 1st NHL coaching job.  

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2 hours ago, tom webster said:

About what I’d expect.

Seriously Tom, did you get better at your job because you were older or because you learned how to do your job better with experience and proper mentorship. I’ve been in my current job for 23 years.  I learn things that help me do my job better all the time.  

Nylander and Olofsson are clearly better at both ends of the ice from the start of the season.  The reports on Olofsson for example early in the year was that he wasn’t coming back on defense.  The player I saw the other night was charging on both ends of the ice.  This is improvement.  

Go look at the stats on Miller, Pommers, and Roy.  They improved each year in the minors and continued that improvement early in their NHL careers.  Sure maturity played into it, but  experience and coaching had more to do with that growth then getting older.

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1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Seriously Tom, did you get better at your job because you were older or because you learned how to do your job better with experience and proper mentorship. I’ve been in my current job for 23 years.  I learn things that help me do my job better all the time.  

Nylander and Olofsson are clearly better at both ends of the ice from the start of the season.  The reports on Olofsson for example early in the year was that he wasn’t coming back on defense.  The player I saw the other night was charging on both ends of the ice.  This is improvement.  

Go look at the stats on Miller, Pommers, and Roy.  They improved each year in the minors and continued that improvement early in their NHL careers.  Sure maturity played into it, but  experience and coaching had more to do with that growth then getting older.

They could have gotten the same experience up here. Would the Sabres have been any worse for it? One point I’ll give you is that they may have had better coaching in Rochester.

Trust me, I know it’s not a popular opinion. And I do think a very small minority of players benefit from playing in the AHL. I just think it’s overvrated and I cringe every time someone talks like it’s an absolute truth.

 

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57 minutes ago, tom webster said:

They could have gotten the same experience up here. Would the Sabres have been any worse for it? One point I’ll give you is that they may have had better coaching in Rochester.

Trust me, I know it’s not a popular opinion. And I do think a very small minority of players benefit from playing in the AHL. I just think it’s overvrated and I cringe every time someone talks like it’s an absolute truth.

 

The Sabres tried that approach with Tage Thompson this season when he should have been in Rochand it failed both the player and the team.  

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11 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The Sabres tried that approach with Tage Thompson this season when he should have been in Rochand it failed both the player and the team.  

No! Tage did benefit from being in the NHL all season. Financially. 

Tage needed the AHL like Nylander needed it. And Nylander needs, yes needs to experience the playoffs in the AHL now. He’ll be better for it next season. Same with Olofsson, Pulit, and Thompson.

Even If some want to cross their arms and refuse to believe it.

Edited by Zamboni
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6 hours ago, tom webster said:

Ok, I’ll concede that people were talking about Housley. Who else interviewed him? The major point, however, is why did JBOT choose him? Even a cursory interview would have revealed he has no grasp of the information available to him. The sport is on the verge of technological epiphany and there is no evidence that he even knows whose playing well during a period. 

The ROR thing is debatable but the bottom line is the return leaves a lot to be desired. In his case, I have to believe a better coach handles that situation better.

As for the AHL, it’s all anecdotal evidence. There is no real way of knowing why someone gets better over time. Maybe they were that hood all along and just needed a chance. Maybe they just matured. Maybe there were reasons that Girgerenko cane with all those red flags and he was destined for failure no matter how he was handled.

finally, I believe history will look back on GMTM much better.

 

 

 

There is some rumors circulating that the Pegulas had locked in on Housley even before they made a decision on Botterill. Of the positions that were open, as mentioned up thread of the openings that summer two were filled internally, Gallant was hired even before GMTM/DD were fired. Florida wanted to interview PH, but where told he’s not interested. Maybe lending credence to the first statement. 

And Im in full agreement that the ROR Return was horrible. I posted the return in the trade thread and followed it with a WTF. 

I’m not sure how History will judge GMTM, he was bold in the ROR and Kane Trades, however he did give up a lot to get them. 

He did pass on Sergechev to draft Nylander and followed that by putting him into a league he was absolutely not ready for at 18.

1 hour ago, tom webster said:

They could have gotten the same experience up here. Would the Sabres have been any worse for it? One point I’ll give you is that they may have had better coaching in Rochester.

Trust me, I know it’s not a popular opinion. And I do think a very small minority of players benefit from playing in the AHL. I just think it’s overvrated and I cringe every time someone talks like it’s an absolute truth.

 

I believe that’s why Botterill had them down there because he knew this to be true 

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6 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The Sabres tried that approach with Tage Thompson this season when he should have been in Rochand it failed both the player and the team.  

And next year, as Tage’s Body continues it’s growth from boy strength to man strength I’m sure we will hear all about it was his time in Rochester they made such a difference.

There are a lot of reasons that the league is getting younger, part of it being that teams are starting to realize that the AHL isn’t as important as they thought. Maybe I’ll spend time seeing how much minor league time the NHL’s top 100 scorers put in.

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6 hours ago, tom webster said:

And next year, as Tage’s Body continues it’s growth from boy strength to man strength I’m sure we will hear all about it was his time in Rochester they made such a difference.

There are a lot of reasons that the league is getting younger, part of it being that teams are starting to realize that the AHL isn’t as important as they thought. Maybe I’ll spend time seeing how much minor league time the NHL’s top 100 scorers put in.

Re: top 100 scorers in the past decade....

Only if you take out all top 10 draft picks since most top 10 draft picks are talented enough to go top 10, and therefore see little if any junior or AHL time. 

As you know, that really wouldn’t make your point of players not needing the AHL and it not being a developmental league, if you selected someone like Crosby or Malkin and said “SEE ZOMG! They didn’t need AHL TIME!” 😂😂😂

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Brwndo must be asleep still

 

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I suspect Jbot signs Davidsson, especially if he think Olofsson and Nylander will be Sabres next season and O’Regan signs elsewhere.

 

 

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UPL’s Season ends with a 60 save triple OT Loss

Jacob Bryson’s Junior Year also ends in a loss at the Frozen Four. 

Will both be Rochester Bound? 

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9 hours ago, Brawndo said:

UPL’s Season ends with a 60 save triple OT Loss

Jacob Bryson’s Junior Year also ends in a loss at the Frozen Four. 

Will both be Rochester Bound? 

UPL is done with Junior hockey, I think the next logical step is pro. It would be good for him to get to know the Amerks system and be around that atmosphere ASAP.

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23 minutes ago, French Collection said:

UPL is done with Junior hockey, I think the next logical step is pro. It would be good for him to get to know the Amerks system and be around that atmosphere ASAP.

 

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