MattPie Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 43 minutes ago, IKnowPhysics said: The write up on Chiarelli. We knew he was bad, but it's still eyeopening to see everything listed in one place. https://deadspin.com/the-oilers-finally-fired-peter-chiarelli-who-did-so-li-1831980105 Quote: - There was the trade of two draft picks (one of whom became reigning Calder champ Mathew Barzal) for Griffin Reinhart, who is now out of the organization and scuffling in the AHL. - There was the one-for-one trade of former first overall pick Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson; two years later Hall won MVP. - There was the seven-year, $42-million contract given to Milan Lucic, who appears to have fallen off a cliff on the wrong side of age 30, and is still signed through 2023. - There was the trade of Jordan Eberle for Ryan Strome, who a year later was flipped for Ryan Spooner, who was put on waivers this week. - And on Monday, Chiarelli’s last move was announced: a three-year, $13.5 million extension for Mikko Koskinen, a 30-year-old goaltender with 32 NHL games under his belt That seems bold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, MattPie said: That seems bold. Right? Pretty incredible that a guy on his way out was allowed to sign that deal. Speaks to problems in Edmonton larger than Chiarelli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 It's truly amazing that a guy with such a track record of horrible actually has a Cup on his record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SABRES 0311 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) Not even looking into stats and financials, how do any of those Chiarelli trades make sense? Was there some idea behind them as far as team identity goes or were they done just to do something? Edited January 23, 2019 by SABRES 0311 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, SABRES 0311 said: Not even looking into stats and financials, how do any of those Chiarelli trades make sense? Was there some idea behind them as far as team identity goes or were they done just to do something? Well, the Hall trade was a desparation move to get literally any defenseman on the roster, but every GM knew how desperate it was, and Larsson was all they got. On a team with little other forward skill, Hall understandably flourished in NJ. Still a steal though for NJ, and mostly considered to be so at the time of the trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SABRES 0311 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 24 minutes ago, IKnowPhysics said: Well, the Hall trade was a desparation move to get literally any defenseman on the roster, but every GM knew how desperate it was, and Larsson was all they got. On a team with little other forward skill, Hall understandably flourished in NJ. Still a steal though for NJ, and mostly considered to be so at the time of the trade. The whole thing with EDM is strange. Rotating door of coaches and inability to prosper with number one picks. McDavid seems to be loyal to a fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said: The whole thing with EDM is strange. Rotating door of coaches and inability to prosper with number one picks. McDavid seems to be loyal to a fault. It's not strange at all. They draft and develop like absolute trash. Their drafting looks better of late but still, you can't win in this league when you get 1 player a draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said: McDavid seems to be loyal to a fault. If he doesn't win a Cup by the time his contract term is finished, he's out of there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Eleven said: If he doesn't win a Cup by the time his contract term is finished, he's out of there. I don't know, I'd go so far as to say that if that mess of a team isn't straightened out by the end of next season he'll demand a trade. He's had to of seen enough by now, I'm wagering the Oilers are on a much shorter term leash when it comes to McDavid and his desire to compete at a higher level than his team has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SABRES 0311 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, Scottysabres said: I don't know, I'd go so far as to say that if that mess of a team isn't straightened out by the end of next season he'll demand a trade. He's had to of seen enough by now, I'm wagering the Oilers are on a much shorter term leash when it comes to McDavid and his desire to compete at a higher level than his team has. We should dump every forward except Jack and Skinner. Replace them with true AHL guys then get McDavid. Skinner-McDavid-Eichel Bunch If worthless guys Defense Goalie ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakeSabresGrr8Again Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said: We should dump every forward except Jack and Skinner. Replace them with true AHL guys then get McDavid. Skinner-McDavid-Eichel Bunch If worthless guys Defense Goalie ? I would do something like... Skinner-McDavid-Nylander Olofsson-Eichel-Reinhart CJ Smith-Mitts-TT Girgs-Lars-E Rod X-FW--Wilson McCabe-Risto Dahlin-Bogo Pilut-Borgen/Nelson Ullmark-Hutton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 11 hours ago, Weave said: Keith Gretzky. There is a name from our inglorious past. If only Wayne Primeau and Keith Gretzky had been put into a magical blender while here, we'd have something really special on two counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SABRES 0311 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 28 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said: I would do something like... Skinner-McDavid-Nylander Olofsson-Eichel-Reinhart CJ Smith-Mitts-TT Girgs-Lars-E Rod X-FW--Wilson McCabe-Risto Dahlin-Bogo Pilut-Borgen/Nelson Ullmark-Hutton Yes! No idea what it is for the cap but would be awesome. Who would be captain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jame Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Scottysabres said: I don't know, I'd go so far as to say that if that mess of a team isn't straightened out by the end of next season he'll demand a trade. He's had to of seen enough by now, I'm wagering the Oilers are on a much shorter term leash when it comes to McDavid and his desire to compete at a higher level than his team has. Do you think Eichel is going to demand a trade on a similar timeline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Just now, jame said: Do you think Eichel is going to demand a trade on a similar timeline? I don't believe Eichel is in a similar situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jame Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Just now, Scottysabres said: I don't believe Eichel is in a similar situation. You think Eichel has less passion for winning? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Just now, jame said: You think Eichel has less passion for winning? I don't think I used McDavid's "passion" as a reasoning why I stated what I did on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jame Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Just now, Scottysabres said: I don't think I used McDavid's "passion" as a reasoning why I stated what I did on the subject. Sorry, you don’t think Eichel’s “desire to compete” is at a higher level than the franchise that traded ROR for futures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Just now, jame said: Sorry, you don’t think Eichel’s “desire to compete” is at a higher level than the franchise that traded ROR for futures? I not only don't believe, but am fully cognizant of the fact, that the Edmonton Oilers and Buffalo Sabres management situations are completely different dichotomy's. Each with their own warts, but one projecting in an upward trend, one not only sitting idle, but actually regressing with no short (1 season) or medium (3 seasons) term competitive growth in to a contention window. And while that may all change as an off season goes by, combined with the removal of Chiarelli as their GM, the damage for them Is already steep, with no appreciable pipeline to fall back on as of yet, which will take time to stock and develop. As opposed to Botterill, who has maintained assets in the pipeline and actually added to them. And while I openly concede both Middelstadt and Thompson could have really used this season in the AHL, by no means do I account those decisions as anything directly related to moving ROR. In short, I don't believe for 1 second Botterill woke up one morning and said: "Casey Middelstadt and Tage Thompson by gosh are the answer". He traded ROR with foundational reasons I am sure the fan base if not fully aware of as of it, if they ever will be. Speculation abounds about "love of game" or "Passion", but this is not the thread for that conversation. And I've already chimed in on it myself with clarity in that thread. You lost your love of the game, Buh-bye now, you've got to go. But I digress. Back to the McDavid comment, I don't believe McDavid will want to stay there at 24 yrs old with no appreciable improvements for his career or personal goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jame Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Scottysabres said: I not only don't believe, but am fully cognizant of the fact, that the Edmonton Oilers and Buffalo Sabres management situations are completely different dichotomy's. Each with their own warts, but one projecting in an upward trend, one not only sitting idle, but actually regressing with no short (1 season) or medium (3 seasons) term competitive growth in to a contention window. And while that may all change as an off season goes by, combined with the removal of Chiarelli as their GM, the damage for them Is already steep, with no appreciable pipeline to fall back on as of yet, which will take time to stock and develop. As opposed to Botterill, who has maintained assets in the pipeline and actually added to them. And while I openly concede both Middelstadt and Thompson could have really used this season in the AHL, by no means do I account those decisions as anything directly related to moving ROR. In short, I don't believe for 1 second Botterill woke up one morning and said: "Casey Middelstadt and Tage Thompson by gosh are the answer". He traded ROR with foundational reasons I am sure the fan base if not fully aware of as of it, if they ever will be. Speculation abounds about "love of game" or "Passion", but this is not the thread for that conversation. And I've already chimed in on it myself with clarity in that thread. You lost your love of the game, Buh-bye now, you've got to go. But I digress. Back to the McDavid comment, I don't believe McDavid will want to stay there at 24 yrs old with no appreciable improvements for his career or personal goals. You think mcdavid will be sick of losing and the outlook with regards to assets/picks/prospects will lead him to ask for a trade but Eichel, similarly sick of losing, will look 2-3 years down the line and feel comfortable with a few more years of losing. interesting take. im of the opinion that losing is losing, and if you think one franchise superstar is sick of it enough to ask for a trade, while the other (on your team) isn’t... you’ve probably got some bias going on Edited January 24, 2019 by jame 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 Just now, jame said: You think mcdavid will be sick of losing and the outlook with regards to assets/picks/prospects will lead him to force a trade but Eichel, similarly sick of losing, will look 2-3 years down the line and feel comfortable with a few more years of losing. interesting take. im of the opinion that losing is losing, and if you think one franchise superstar is sick of it enough to ask for a trade, while the other (on your team) isn’t... you’ve probably got some bias going on There is more than just losing involved, I am sure. And while I don't believe Eichel is beyond that, I do firmly believe that McDavid is in an entirely different set of circumstances. To start with, the conference strength, much tougher in the East right now, and Buffalo, as I said, having warts, is hanging around. Could you imagine Edmonton's position in this Conference? There is also stability forming around Eichel roster wise. Yes, it did take 4 seasons, but then again, it would be remiss not to point out the obvious here, the Sabres tore it down to the dirt under the foundation, when McDavid arrived in Edmonton not only was that not the case, but there was in fact high end, very high end talent already in place there. And these are just a couple of facets of that dychomity I spoke of, in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jame Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 Just now, Scottysabres said: There is more than just losing involved, I am sure. And while I don't believe Eichel is beyond that, I do firmly believe that McDavid is in an entirely different set of circumstances. To start with, the conference strength, much tougher in the East right now, and Buffalo, as I said, having warts, is hanging around. Could you imagine Edmonton's position in this Conference? There is also stability forming around Eichel roster wise. Yes, it did take 4 seasons, but then again, it would be remiss not to point out the obvious here, the Sabres tore it down to the dirt under the foundation, when McDavid arrived in Edmonton not only was that not the case, but there was in fact high end, very high end talent already in place there. And these are just a couple of facets of that dychomity I spoke of, in my view. Buffalo isn’t hanging around, they’ve fallen Off a cliff... really the only difference in Eichel and McDavid’s situations is Dahlin. I don’t know what stability you speak of... trading ROR made the roster far less stable. Bridging Reinhart makes the possibility of keeping both Skinner and Reinhart very difficult without putting immense pressure on other parts of the roster (cap wise). Risto will likely be a UFA before we win a playoff series at this pace. Stability? Where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 44 minutes ago, jame said: You think Eichel has less passion for winning? You have to factor in that Edmonton is a hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 minute ago, jame said: Buffalo isn’t hanging around, they’ve fallen Off a cliff... really the only difference in Eichel and McDavid’s situations is Dahlin. I don’t know what stability you speak of... trading ROR made the roster far less stable. Bridging Reinhart makes the possibility of keeping both Skinner and Reinhart very difficult without putting immense pressure on other parts of the roster (cap wise). Risto will likely be a UFA before we win a playoff series at this pace. Stability? Where? Risto has multiple yrs left. Yes Dahlin is here. Reinhart is on a bridge. Skinner will be resigned, I have no doubt. McCabe will be QO'd or resigned. Larsson will be QO'd or resigned. Rodriguez will be here. Both goalies will be here. Middelstadt, Thompson will be here. I won't go in to the pipeline, your most likely familiar with them. They have gone cold for the 2nd quarter of the season, they were hot in the 1st quarter. They are where I expected them to be, a bubble wild card team. I am not sure what you expected. You seem transfixed on the ROR being shipped off situation. News Flash: they came in dead last, with ROR on the roster. They finished bottom 8, with ROR on the roster. Now, you can choose to ignore the obvious, that ROR was never going to be the hockey god and saviour of the Buffalo Sabres and move on from it, or not too. That's a choice for you to make, for myself, I'm at complete peace with it. After all, 50 yrs now, and as a fan "I have never lost my love for the game". And in that 50 yrs as a Sabres faithful, it's sure as hell been a sight more hockey pain and anguish as a Sabres fan than little timid Ryan faced in a mere 2.5 seasons here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jame Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, Scottysabres said: Risto has multiple yrs left. Yes Dahlin is here. Reinhart is on a bridge. Skinner will be resigned, I have no doubt. McCabe will be QO'd or resigned. Larsson will be QO'd or resigned. Rodriguez will be here. Both goalies will be here. Middelstadt, Thompson will be here. I won't go in to the pipeline, your most likely familiar with them. They have gone cold for the 2nd quarter of the season, they were hot in the 1st quarter. They are where I expected them to be, a bubble wild card team. I am not sure what you expected. You seem transfixed on the ROR being shipped off situation. News Flash: they came in dead last, with ROR on the roster. They finished bottom 8, with ROR on the roster. Now, you can choose to ignore the obvious, that ROR was never going to be the hockey god and saviour of the Buffalo Sabres and move on from it, or not too. That's a choice for you to make, for myself, I'm at complete peace with it. After all, 50 yrs now, and as a fan "I have never lost my love for the game". And in that 50 yrs as a Sabres faithful, it's sure as hell been a sight more hockey pain and anguish as a Sabres fan than little timid Ryan faced in a mere 2.5 seasons here. That list says “stability” to you? That’s the roster that’s been one of the worst in the league since Dec 1. i expected the ROR trade to be exposed as the massive mistake that it was. My expectations have been met. i think the front office and ownership overreaction to a locker room interview shows exactly how similar the mcdavid and Eichel situations actually are. i wasn’t surprised that the buffalo beat carried the water for the franchise in the ROR saga, I wasn’t surprised that the fan base ate it up, I’m not surprised at the blowback that it’s had on this season... am I over it? Nah... it’s not easy to get over the franchise knee capping itself again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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