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WildCard

Around the NHL 2018-2019

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2 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Well heavens knows former players would never repeat an age old trope without thinking critically about it. 

Do you really think players think about this stuff? That's kinda the whole point. Fighting is a visceral thing for these guys. A fight is like a side-quest in a video game. Beating a side quest brings satisfaction too. 

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22 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Do you really think players think about this stuff? That's kinda the whole point. Fighting is a visceral thing for these guys. A fight is like a side-quest in a video game. Beating a side quest brings satisfaction too. 

I don't think these are mindless dudes running around satisfying some innate urge

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29 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Or, ya know, they're actually being honest. The idea that someone sticking up for you makes you like them more isn't exactly far fetched 

I don't have any data but I clearly see more enthusiasm out of the young core when Bogo gets in a tussle. 

Edited by inkman

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3 minutes ago, WildCard said:

I don't think these are mindless dudes running around satisfying some innate urge

I do. At least, during the games they are. Maybe before and after games some of them are Ned Braden. But there's not a single player in the league who isn't going to stick tap his teammate for winning a fight during a game. Conscience goes out the window during these situations. 

Also, if you follow enough ex-NHL players on Twitter you know how mindless many of them really are. Maybe it'll change with the new generations, but guys like Brad May are pretty much feeling the primal rage. 

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40 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I do. At least, during the games they are. Maybe before and after games some of them are Ned Braden. But there's not a single player in the league who isn't going to stick tap his teammate for winning a fight during a game. Conscience goes out the window during these situations. 

Also, if you follow enough ex-NHL players on Twitter you know how mindless many of them really are. Maybe it'll change with the new generations, but guys like Brad May are pretty much feeling the primal rage. 

Non athletes feel the same “primal rage”. Only thing stopping us from acting on them are laws. If you knew you would only get a five minute timeout would you punch a guy who pissed you off? 

Point being is the person on ice is not the same off it. There is a comraderie with teammates in that if you are willing to do battle on my behalf I am motivated to do my job a little better.

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48 minutes ago, inkman said:

I don't have any data but I clearly see more enthusiasm out of the young core when Bogo gets in a tussle. 

I made a point to show my buddy the reaction of the Sabres bench after the Larsson fight vs Philly. They were beside themselves. 

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Just now, SABRES 0311 said:

Non athletes feel the same “primal rage”. Only thing stopping us from acting on them are laws. If you knew you would only get a five minute timeout would you punch a guy who pissed you off? 

Point being is the person on ice is not the same off it. There is a comraderie with teammates in that if you are willing to do battle on my behalf I am motivated to do my job a little better.

The only thing stopping me from assaulting someone else is not laws

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3 hours ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

What?

I have no problem with Wilson, or anyone else that fights, so long as it's a fair fight and no fighter has a distinct advantage over the other.  That said, I would prefer a more skilled game, which is what we have now, I think, and very limited fighting.

Wilson in a punk, not because he fights, which he rarely does, so far as I know.  It's all the cheap shots that hurt people.

I agree. And it has to be a fight where both parties agree to go, and no staged fighting. Cody McCormick was known for that. Staged fights just for a momentum swing stopped having an impact and are useless. 

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10 minutes ago, WildCard said:

The only thing stopping me from assaulting someone else is not laws

Kinda. Laws tend to come from social mores. So the laws kinda stop you because you're socialized to act similarly to the laws. 

Either way, the point is that the social norms among hockey players during games can differ from the norms they follow when they're off the ice.

And we all do this. We all act a little differently depending on the situations we're in.

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1 hour ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Well heavens knows former players would never repeat an age old trope without thinking critically about it. 

Well now, wait a second.

1 hour ago, WildCard said:

Or, ya know, they're actually being honest. The idea that someone sticking up for you makes you like them more isn't exactly far fetched 

I tend to agree with this.

I don't believe for a minute that fighting helps, or once upon a time helped, police the game.

I do think that a well-timed fight can be good (or even great) for esprit de corps.

1 hour ago, WildCard said:

I don't think these are mindless dudes running around satisfying some innate urge

Well now, wait a second.

1 hour ago, darksabre said:

I do. 

As do I.

YMMV, but, for the most part, NHL players are exceedingly simple people. Not simplistic, mind you. Simple.

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I think it's pretty insulting to call NHL players, essentially, stupid. Playing a sport for a living does not make you inherently simple

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Fighting matters when it matters, which, I admit, is not all the time.

I just can't believe how many people think that players are just a bunch of reversions to the mean skating out there and that emotion plays no part in the game.

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4 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Supposedly it’s an outlet preventing acts of retribution by guys with sticks. 

Wasn't there more stickwork when fighting was more prevalent, and isn't there less stickwork now that fighting is a rarity?

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2 hours ago, WildCard said:

Or, ya know, they're actually being honest. The idea that someone sticking up for you makes you like them more isn't exactly far fetched 

Oh, I think they're being honest in that they genuinely believe it. I just think it's a giant placebo effect.

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1 hour ago, WildCard said:

I think it's pretty insulting to call NHL players, essentially, stupid. Playing a sport for a living does not make you inherently simple

Our esteemed Smell, whom I assume you are pointing this to, did not say simple-minded, which would be insulting.  Being 'simple' does not mean what you seem to think it does.  If you don't believe me, just ask my friend Ronnie.  He'll tell you.

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4 hours ago, WildCard said:

Former players talk about it a lot

Religious people talk about God a lot.

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50 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Our esteemed Smell, whom I assume you are pointing this to, did not say simple-minded, which would be insulting.  Being 'simple' does not mean what you seem to think it does.  If you don't believe me, just ask my friend Ronnie.  He'll tell you.

He seems to be in agreement with d4rk, who, unless I read that wrong, does.

12 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Religious people talk about God a lot.

Unless religious people personally met God it's not the same

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2 minutes ago, WildCard said:

He seems to be in agreement with d4rk, who, unless I read that wrong, does.

I just read dark's post and it seems that Smell says that he agrees with dark and then goes on to refute that agreement by saying many players are simple.  Maybe Smell is not quite sure of the difference, but I doubt that is the case.

Anyway, I agree with you.

It's all very confusing, but simple is not the same as simple-minded, or stupid.

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I don't want to put words in Aud's mouth, but regarding my own opinion, I think most NHL players are probably not too bright. Most of them barely finish high school, they aren't seeking further education, and they probably aren't studying high level sociological concepts and applying those theories to their work. They've been playing hockey their whole lives and that's what they know. There's not going to be much questioning of it. 

It's funny that John Scott was mentioned earlier. I bet he's one of the few players capable of spending any time giving serious thought to the things he was doing as an NHL player. John Scott is a well educated gentle-giant of a man and even he was capable of switching his conscience off for 3 hours at a time in order to punch guys in the head for money. He still saw value in it. Or he felt his teammates saw value in it. 

Putting a bow on this, fans who think fighting doesn't matter to these guys are over thinking it. Because I assure you the players aren't giving it too much thought. And even if some of them are, it's not happening during games. 

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For those who have played the game at any level realizes a fight or good scrum tends to energize a team especially if liberties perceived or real are being taken by the other team.  You feel you need to bring it your next shift. Its a viceral thing but agreed not a lot of cerebral work going on there.

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7 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Wasn't there more stickwork when fighting was more prevalent, and isn't there less stickwork now that fighting is a rarity?

that's why I said supposedly. this isn't a science its guys playing a game and sometimes fighting. some are better at it than others.

if he did not want to fight he wouldn't have dropped the gloves. maybe next time he wins the fight. the more I think about the issue I start to see how much of a non issue it is. so what if someone on his team or the caps motivated him to do it? maybe oleksiak is the type of person who would jump off the bridge if all his friends were doing it. maybe he thought he could take the big guy. maybe he let anger get the best of him. who knows.

If any of us got into a bar fight and lost are we going to blame someone off to the side? I just realized this post is very preachy so I am sorry.

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A fight is the only play where ALL fans in attendance rise out of their seats.... not just fans of whichever team scored.   

The game is turning into a skills contest... which some people like.     Don't get me wrong, I like watching skill plays... but I also want to see some emotion, some real hatred between the benches. 

When Buffalo went down 4-2, if this was 10 years ago... you can bet there would've been a fight within a few minutes of that 4th goal... just to try and energize the Sabre bench and get some momentum back.     That simply doesn't happen anymore and we see teams simply throw in the towel when things aren't going their way.... and as a fan it's disappointing. 

 

Edited by pi2000
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13 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

A fight is the only play where ALL fans in attendance rise out of their seats.... not just fans of whichever team scored.   

The game is turning into a skills contest... which some people like.     Don't get me wrong, I like watching skill plays... but I also want to see some emotion, some real hatred between the benches. 

When Buffalo went down 4-2, if this was 10 years ago... you can bet there would've been a fight within a few minutes of that 4th goal... just to try and energize the Sabre bench and get some momentum back.     That simply doesn't happen anymore and we see teams simply throw in the towel when things aren't going their way.... and as a fan it's disappointing. 

 

I remember the old saying..."I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out".

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2 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

I remember the old saying..."I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out".

That brings back some memories.... my Dad used to say "hey, a hockey game broke out"... anytime there was a fight in any other sport we were watching.

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