SABRES 0311 Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Brawndo said: From Friedman’s 31 Thoughts 7. On Burakovsky: The Capitals have asked for a couple of mid-to-high round draft picks in exchange (seconds and thirds would be a good get) for him. That would give them more flexibility and assets to chase what they need. Even with a seven-game losing streak, absolutely no one is writing them off. Well we have a second and third round pick. 6 goals and 6 assists in 44 games. 23 years old. Is this a third/fourth line LW acquisition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted January 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 18 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said: Well we have a second and third round pick. 6 goals and 6 assists in 44 games. 23 years old. Is this a third/fourth line LW acquisition? They would have to be in 2020. The 2nd went to Carolina for Skinner and the 3rd has conditions on it with the Sheary Trade. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SABRES 0311 Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Brawndo said: They would have to be in 2020. The 2nd went to Carolina for Skinner and the 3rd has conditions on it with the Sheary Trade. We sure aren’t giving up a first. If the report is true I doubt WSH accepts a fourth. A player would likely have to be involved. I’d guess a prospect WSH would value as a second rounder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 Let’s stop talking about rentals like Staal when Botterill has said that’s not happening. Instead, let’s focus on what he said - acquiring younger players with term, or team control - look at the roster and figure out what might be more likely. And I see our biggest need as a middle six centre and our most replaceable assets as our high picks and our depth on defence. Trading Scandella or Guhle would have been unimaginable a year ago. Now it almost seems prudent. Scandella/Nylander/1st or something similar could get us the type of player we need, under the right circumstances. Given the fact most teams will be keeping middle six centres until the cap forces them to make a move, and the fact that we aren’t really a committed buyer or seller, I think we are far more likely to be making a draft-day deal than a deadline deal. I’m not expecting Botterill to do something beyond the fringes of the roster. That said, guys like Scandella are in demand at the deadline. And there is always the possibility of a Hodgson/Kassian type hockey trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jame Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 13 minutes ago, dudacek said: Let’s stop talking about rentals like Staal when Botterill has said that’s not happening. Instead, let’s focus on what he said - acquiring younger players with term, or team control - look at the roster and figure out what might be more likely. And I see our biggest need as a middle six centre and our most replaceable assets as our high picks and our depth on defence. Trading Scandella or Guhle would have been unimaginable a year ago. Now it almost seems prudent. Scandella/Nylander/1st or something similar could get us the type of player we need, under the right circumstances. Given the fact most teams will be keeping middle six centres until the cap forces them to make a move, and the fact that we aren’t really a committed buyer or seller, I think we are far more likely to be making a draft-day deal than a deadline deal. I’m not expecting Botterill to do something beyond the fringes of the roster. That said, guys like Scandella are in demand at the deadline. And there is always the possibility of a Hodgson/Kassian type hockey trade. Not sure Scandella/Nylander/1st gets us what we need... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, jame said: Not sure Scandella/Nylander/1st gets us what we need... You don’t think that’s enough for Staal? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jame Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, dudacek said: You don’t think that’s enough for Staal? ? Lol What team (besides Buffalo) is trading a prime aged top 6 center with term for that package? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) 30 minutes ago, jame said: Lol What team (besides Buffalo) is trading a prime aged top 6 center with term for that package? That’s what I’d like to find out. And to be clear, it’s for a middle-six guy who might have upward mobility. We need a team that has a hole on defence and an unproven young centre that they might have trouble signing. You weren’t getting Ryan Johansen from Columbus for that kind of package, but you probably could have picked up Mika Zibenajad from Ottawa. The Jordan Staal trade wasn’t too much more. Ottawa got Kyle Turris for a lot less. Hodgson... Hell, going way back, think of what we paid for Drury and Briere. Like I said, you just have to find the right circumstances. Edited January 24, 2019 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jame Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 21 minutes ago, dudacek said: That’s what I’d like to find out. We need a team that has a hole on defence and an unproven young centre that they might have trouble signing. You weren’t getting Ryan Johansen from Columbus for that kind of package, but you probably could have picked up Mika Zibenajad from Ottawa. Zibenajad was traded for an established top 6 center, Ottawa Didn’t make a futures trade when they moved him, so hard to imagine they’d have done that deal however... New York is rebuilding...and Zib has 3 year and a full NMC about to kick in next year. Could be a good target, but the lack of a top asset has the offer coming up well short Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 Wennberg? Bennett? Fabbri? Fiala? Zacha? Roslovic? Colin White? Mark Jankowski? Coyle? Bjugstad? JT Miller? I’m just spitballing names without thinking their situations through, or what I am willing to give up. But they are the type of players that might add some substance to the middle six for a few years without giving up the farm, and could conceivably be better than they’ve shown. Those guys were all high picks, but that doesn’t have to be a factor. I’d rather identify someone more under the radar and unearth the next William Karlsson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, jame said: Zibenajad was traded for an established top 6 center, Ottawa Didn’t make a futures trade when they moved him, so hard to imagine they’d have done that deal however... New York is rebuilding...and Zib has 3 year and a full NMC about to kick in next year. Could be a good target, but the lack of a top asset has the offer coming up well short Lack of a top asset is relative, isn’t it? Id rather have Nylander and Scandella than a pick in the 20s, but you might disagree. Brayden Schenn to me is a better player than Zibby and he went for what became picks 19 and 27 and Philly had to take on Lehtera’s contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jame Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, dudacek said: Wennberg? Bennett? Fabbri? Fiala? Zacha? Roslovic? Colin White? Mark Jankowski? Coyle? Bjugstad? JT Miller? I’m just spitballing names without thinking their situations through, or what I am willing to give up. But they are the type of players that might add some substance to the middle six for a few years without giving up the farm, and could conceivably be better than they’ve shown. Those guys were all high picks, but that doesn’t have to be a factor. I’d rather identify someone more under the radar and unearth the next William Karlsson. No one on that list appeals to me in terms of filling the 2C hole. Most of them aren’t even true centers. Wennberg - contract is terrifying, too much risk Bennet - bottom 6 winger fabbri - damaged goods Fiala - we have a LW logjam, would love to add, but doesn’t address center issue zacha - are you willing to trade Mittelstadt for him? roslovic - we should just call up nylander or Olofsson Jankowski - why would Calgary trade their 3rd line center? Coyle - he’s a center and his contract is a perfect short term fit. He’s always been a fairly underwhelming player. Bjugstad - huge pass on that contract jt miller - not a center, too much term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jame Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, dudacek said: Lack of a top asset is relative, isn’t it? Id rather have Nylander and Scandella than a pick in the 20s, but you might disagree. Brayden Schenn to me is a better player than Zibby and he went for what became picks 19 and 27 and Philly had to take on Lehtera’s contract. I just don’t think a competent GM would accept the ROR package for Zib.. and that’s what your scandella (Sobotka), Nylander (Thompson), 1st (1st) is.... Edited January 25, 2019 by jame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 minute ago, dudacek said: Lack of a top asset is relative, isn’t it? Id rather have Nylander and Scandella than a pick in the 20s, but you might disagree. Brayden Schenn to me is a better player than Zibby and he went for what became picks 19 and 27 and Philly had to take on Lehtera’s contract. Schenn or Zibby, either would help the Sabres. The question of cost does come in to play, but I wouldn't be targeting either of those guys if the price is a piece to far. With that said, I am not beyond over paying a bit if the player warrants it. I don't see the Rangers moving Zibby, as his age and contract are right in the pigeon hole, so to speak, on certain other elements of their roster, that 24 to 28 age range. The Rangers aren't known for tear downs and rebuilds, more like retooling and adding high end assets on the brink of their prime/twilight yrs. He won't be made available in my humble opinion. Schenn however is a different animal all together. 1 yr left at just over 5 mil, 27 yrs old already, he's going to be looking for that locked in 6 yr or more deal, and he'll most likely get it. Good skater, not great foot speed though. I'd pass, but, it's not just a wave of the hand pass. As for other notables, Kevin Hayes, back the Rangers pool. I don't know, he's already cresting at just over 5 mil, and he'll be 27 with UFA status for his next deal. To risky for me, but, as with the 2 above, not a wave of the hand pass. Charlie Coyle, sorry, doesn't move the meter for me. His consistency in production throws up red flags. Mikael Granlund, you have my attention, injuries hamper him from time to time, but his production is a bit more stable. Unfortunately, 26 yrs old, 1 yr left at just over 5 mil. Same boat as these others. You see the pattern developing here duds? They all look like a good fit, but at what price? Not only the price were giving up to acquire the asset, but the price to retain them as they enter that UFA yrs contract right in the middle of their prime. It just never seems to end well, or very rarely. Players that do interest me are 23 to 25 yr olds, on longer than a yr or 2 contracts, Center and at least 1 RHD and/or 1 top 6 winger. Just my take is all dudacek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickompositör72 Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 11 minutes ago, jame said: I just don’t think a competent GM would accept the ROR package for Zib.. and that’s what your scandella (Sobotka), Nylander (Thompson), 1st (1st) is.... Scandella may have some value to the right GM- someone who thinks he just needs a "change of scenery" (which very well might be the case, in reality) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jame Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, erickompositör72 said: Scandella may have some value to the right GM- someone who thinks he just needs a "change of scenery" (which very well might be the case, in reality) I agree. I think we can get a 2nd rounder for him at the deadline. A team needing a 5-6, and happy to have the additional year. but at the same time, I value D depth. You need 8... in a healthy season, so even though he’s played terrible this year, I don’t mind keeping him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 31 minutes ago, Scottysabres said: Schenn or Zibby, either would help the Sabres. The question of cost does come in to play, but I wouldn't be targeting either of those guys if the price is a piece to far. With that said, I am not beyond over paying a bit if the player warrants it. I don't see the Rangers moving Zibby, as his age and contract are right in the pigeon hole, so to speak, on certain other elements of their roster, that 24 to 28 age range. The Rangers aren't known for tear downs and rebuilds, more like retooling and adding high end assets on the brink of their prime/twilight yrs. He won't be made available in my humble opinion. Schenn however is a different animal all together. 1 yr left at just over 5 mil, 27 yrs old already, he's going to be looking for that locked in 6 yr or more deal, and he'll most likely get it. Good skater, not great foot speed though. I'd pass, but, it's not just a wave of the hand pass. As for other notables, Kevin Hayes, back the Rangers pool. I don't know, he's already cresting at just over 5 mil, and he'll be 27 with UFA status for his next deal. To risky for me, but, as with the 2 above, not a wave of the hand pass. Charlie Coyle, sorry, doesn't move the meter for me. His consistency in production throws up red flags. Mikael Granlund, you have my attention, injuries hamper him from time to time, but his production is a bit more stable. Unfortunately, 26 yrs old, 1 yr left at just over 5 mil. Same boat as these others. You see the pattern developing here duds? They all look like a good fit, but at what price? Not only the price were giving up to acquire the asset, but the price to retain them as they enter that UFA yrs contract right in the middle of their prime. It just never seems to end well, or very rarely. Players that do interest me are 23 to 25 yr olds, on longer than a yr or 2 contracts, Center and at least 1 RHD and/or 1 top 6 winger. Just my take is all dudacek. I generally agree with most of your takes here, and that taking on a player over 25 with a year or so left is usually a bad gamble given the cost. There aren’t a lot of Skinners out there. If we are giving up a package like the one I initially proposed, it has to be for a player who is going to be here for a while. 54 minutes ago, jame said: No one on that list appeals to me in terms of filling the 2C hole. Most of them aren’t even true centers. Wennberg - contract is terrifying, too much risk Bennet - bottom 6 winger fabbri - damaged goods Fiala - we have a LW logjam, would love to add, but doesn’t address center issue zacha - are you willing to trade Mittelstadt for him? roslovic - we should just call up nylander or Olofsson Jankowski - why would Calgary trade their 3rd line center? Coyle - he’s a center and his contract is a perfect short term fit. He’s always been a fairly underwhelming player. Bjugstad - huge pass on that contract jt miller - not a center, too much term. LOL. There are always issues. And fans wonder why NHL GMs with their jobs on the line can’t make more trades... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jame Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 55 minutes ago, Scottysabres said: Schenn or Zibby, either would help the Sabres. The question of cost does come in to play, but I wouldn't be targeting either of those guys if the price is a piece to far. With that said, I am not beyond over paying a bit if the player warrants it. I don't see the Rangers moving Zibby, as his age and contract are right in the pigeon hole, so to speak, on certain other elements of their roster, that 24 to 28 age range. The Rangers aren't known for tear downs and rebuilds, more like retooling and adding high end assets on the brink of their prime/twilight yrs. He won't be made available in my humble opinion. Schenn however is a different animal all together. 1 yr left at just over 5 mil, 27 yrs old already, he's going to be looking for that locked in 6 yr or more deal, and he'll most likely get it. Good skater, not great foot speed though. I'd pass, but, it's not just a wave of the hand pass. As for other notables, Kevin Hayes, back the Rangers pool. I don't know, he's already cresting at just over 5 mil, and he'll be 27 with UFA status for his next deal. To risky for me, but, as with the 2 above, not a wave of the hand pass. Charlie Coyle, sorry, doesn't move the meter for me. His consistency in production throws up red flags. Mikael Granlund, you have my attention, injuries hamper him from time to time, but his production is a bit more stable. Unfortunately, 26 yrs old, 1 yr left at just over 5 mil. Same boat as these others. You see the pattern developing here duds? They all look like a good fit, but at what price? Not only the price were giving up to acquire the asset, but the price to retain them as they enter that UFA yrs contract right in the middle of their prime. It just never seems to end well, or very rarely. Players that do interest me are 23 to 25 yr olds, on longer than a yr or 2 contracts, Center and at least 1 RHD and/or 1 top 6 winger. Just my take is all dudacek. Agree on most fronts regarding those players (especially Hayes, his next contract is scary). Which is why I find the Staal rental scenario so much more appealing. Costs less to acquire, a short term extension is a reasonable potential expectation. Sure, there’s risk that it’s only a rental, from which the benefits could be reaped via impact on the roster/outcomes this season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 4 hours ago, Brawndo said: They would have to be in 2020. The 2nd went to Carolina for Skinner and the 3rd has conditions on it with the Sheary Trade. We can offer the 2019 third but have to just condition that it becomes 2020 if the Sheary conditions are met which seems very unlikely right now. 3 hours ago, dudacek said: Let’s stop talking about rentals like Staal when Botterill has said that’s not happening. Where has Botterill himself said this? And did he sign a contract that prevents him from lying or changing his mind? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Hoss said: We can offer the 2019 third but have to just condition that it becomes 2020 if the Sheary conditions are met which seems very unlikely right now. Where has Botterill himself said this? And did he sign a contract that prevents him from lying or changing his mind? I’ve read it at least twice from different insiders and directly heard him say it myself at least once during an interview on WGR. Of course he could be lying or change his mind. I don’t see the point and he hasn’t struck me as the type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 26 minutes ago, jame said: Agree on most fronts regarding those players (especially Hayes, his next contract is scary). Which is why I find the Staal rental scenario so much more appealing. Costs less to acquire, a short term extension is a reasonable potential expectation. Sure, there’s risk that it’s only a rental, from which the benefits could be reaped via impact on the roster/outcomes this season You'd be surprised to hear this maybe, but unlike Botterill I'm not beyond the playoff experience. These guys that are going to be here need it. So yes Jame, I do agree with your take on not retaining all the 1st's, even if we don't get out of the 1st round the intangibles of having our current developing core salivating, striving to get back to that experience with more drive, dedication, hard work and focus does pay huge dividens. For the record, at least as long as SDS keeps it :), making the playoffs to myself in any event, is more important than keeping four 1st rd picks over the next 2 seasons. With that said, Botterill has time, roughly 30 days, I believe a couple of trades are coming. Because honestly, if he doesn't address at least attempting to move this team forward in their progress toward the playoff end, I will join you in calling for his head, pitchfork, torch and all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 4 hours ago, dudacek said: Let’s stop talking about rentals like Staal when Botterill has said that’s not happening. Instead, let’s focus on what he said - acquiring younger players with term, or team control - look at the roster and figure out what might be more likely. And I see our biggest need as a middle six centre and our most replaceable assets as our high picks and our depth on defence. Trading Scandella or Guhle would have been unimaginable a year ago. Now it almost seems prudent. Scandella/Nylander/1st or something similar could get us the type of player we need, under the right circumstances. Given the fact most teams will be keeping middle six centres until the cap forces them to make a move, and the fact that we aren’t really a committed buyer or seller, I think we are far more likely to be making a draft-day deal than a deadline deal. I’m not expecting Botterill to do something beyond the fringes of the roster. That said, guys like Scandella are in demand at the deadline. And there is always the possibility of a Hodgson/Kassian type hockey trade. Technically, I don't believe Botterill said he won't trade for a rental. He said he isn't interested in trading a first round pick for a rental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Ankles Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 16 minutes ago, Thorny said: Technically, I don't believe Botterill said he won't trade for a rental. He said he isn't interested in trading a first round pick for a rental. When he was last on WGR he stated that while he always wants to add scoring and skill he did not want to trade draft picks (not specific rounds but picks in general) OR Young players. He said that while this might add immediate scoring it would only push the problem down a few years. I have a feeling this is partially true. He is against a rental, but might walk back his comment about trading a pick or a player come June. If we were playing ‘Card Sharks’, I’d say the likelihood JB trades for any rental is low. 18%. I also look to see if Nylander is given a real look after the break. If he doesn’t get a sniff I think his chances for being part of a package increase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 I know we all want playoffs , but the only thing we should do at the deadline is sell. Beaulieu / pommer / Sobotka / Bogo. Call kids up from Rochester and keep all our draft picks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 Except Bogo and if you have to retain some salary KO out, agreed. 15 minutes ago, Huckleberry said: I know we all want playoffs , but the only thing we should do at the deadline is sell. Beaulieu / pommer / Sobotka / Bogo. Call kids up from Rochester and keep all our draft picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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