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KeyBank Center improvement chatter

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33 minutes ago, Eleven said:

And there also are people like me who live in the city and drive downtown to work.

In a metro population of 1.1M, I don't see how 40,000 driving in and out of the financial and governmental center of that metro area is difficult to believe.  At all.

To be clear, this started with cars.  Not all people coming in drive solo, and some do actually use public transport.  I might accept 40k people without saying anything, but 40k cars needing a place to park in downtown?  No.

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1 hour ago, darksabre said:

So 90% of Buffalo's commuting is done by car. Let's assume 85% of Buffalo's commuter jobs are in the downtown area since that's easily the most job dense part of the city, and then let's assume that (based on the data) 85% of those 90% of commuters are driving alone in a car, you're looking at about 30,000 people going straight into the downtown part of the city every day by themselves in a car. Does +30,000 look better to you?

 

1 minute ago, darksabre said:

I'm not saying 30k people, I'm saying 30k vehicles based on the number of people.

You said people. Tangent: PEOPLE. Let's stare at that work for a minute and see if it makes sense after that. Even now, when I look at the word, it makes no sense.

 

1 minute ago, darksabre said:

That said, Eleven's point about the difference being a net + means that the total of people is likely much higher, and therefore the number of cars as well. 40k cars looks reasonable.

Maybe.  40k cars is a lot of cars.

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5 minutes ago, ... said:

 

You said people. Tangent: PEOPLE. Let's stare at that work for a minute and see if it makes sense after that. Even now, when I look at the word, it makes no sense.

 

Maybe.  40k cars is a lot of cars.

Read the rest of the sentence. 30,000 people by themselves in cars = 30,000 cars.

Yeesh.

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5 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Read the rest of the sentence. 30,000 people by themselves in cars = 30,000 cars.

Yeesh.

You wrote words here, I don't comprehend them. It's like staring at a Rorschach blot.

 tumblr_pl6nxmIGhw1s7xfipo2_500.gif

Edited by ...
Dr. Manhattan

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Just now, ... said:

You wrote words here, I don't comprehend them. It's like starting at a Rorschach blot.

 tumblr_pl6nxmIGhw1s7xfipo2_500.gif

That's not my problem.

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1 minute ago, darksabre said:

That's not my problem.

It is if you believe 40k cars need parking spots downtown.  Downtown Buffalo, that is.

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1 minute ago, ... said:

It is if you believe 40k cars need parking spots downtown.  Downtown Buffalo, that is.

It appears to make sense to everyone except you.

giphy.gif

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4 minutes ago, darksabre said:

It appears to make sense to everyone except you.

giphy.gif

Should I submit?

source.gif

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34 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Animated GIF

 

That's the spirit!

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56 minutes ago, ... said:

Should I submit?

source.gif

That would certainly be the logical end to a debate where one party isn't providing any support for its argument... 

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1 hour ago, darksabre said:

That would certainly be the logical end to a debate where one party isn't providing any support for its argument... 

Oh please.  So your assumptions are "support"?

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Go downtown sometime and look at all the parking in the area bounded by Tupper, Elmwood/Niagara (one turns into the other, sort of), and Oak.  Those lots and ramps are nearly full every day.  Most of them are not full during the evening/night unless the Sabres are playing or there is a concert.  I don't know what else to say.  We move 40k cars in and out of DOWNTOWN daily.  It's just what it is.  Take care.

Edited by Eleven

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According to the Partnership for the Public Good's 2018 Buffalo Brief Report, The City of Buffalo has 108,600 jobs.  I don't think it is unreasonable at all to assume that 50% of them are downtown.

A real estate downtown demographics report has a downtown resident population published as 930 people.

If we assume half the City of Buffalo jobs are downtown, that gives us 54,300 workers downtown, with something less than 1,000 of them living downtown.  I don't believe 10% of them carpool.  Never saw any more than 1 in 10 vehicles with more than one person in it back in the days I called Buffalo home.

 

Edit- Don't you folks know how to research and support your arguments?

Edited by Weave

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1 hour ago, Weave said:

According to the Partnership for the Public Good's 2018 Buffalo Brief Report, The City of Buffalo has 108,600 jobs.  I don't think it is unreasonable at all to assume that 50% of them are downtown.

A real estate downtown demographics report has a downtown resident population published as 930 people.

If we assume half the City of Buffalo jobs are downtown, that gives us 54,300 workers downtown, with something less than 1,000 of them living downtown.  I don't believe 10% of them carpool.  Never saw any more than 1 in 10 vehicles with more than one person in it back in the days I called Buffalo home.

 

Edit- Don't you folks know how to research and support your arguments?

So, I was writing a response to this when it occurred to me that we all might have varying definitions of what "downtown Buffalo" is.

I'd like to submit this Google Map (IOW, not mine) definition of "downtown Buffalo".  However, I completely agree with these boundaries and, in fact, have always considered this the "downtown" area.    

 

image.thumb.png.a2c124f31afbc0e5af3c550ccaba58a6.png

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2 hours ago, Eleven said:

Go downtown sometime and look at all the parking in the area bounded by Tupper, Elmwood/Niagara (one turns into the other, sort of), and Oak.  Those lots and ramps are nearly full every day.  Most of them are not full during the evening/night unless the Sabres are playing or there is a concert.  I don't know what else to say.  We move 40k cars in and out of the city daily.  It's just what it is.  Take care.

We were talking about downtown.

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4 minutes ago, ... said:

We were talking about downtown.

Ok.  I will edit.  The same boundaries apply.  I think you knew that and are being pedantic.

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12 minutes ago, ... said:

So, I was writing a response to this when it occurred to me that we all might have varying definitions of what "downtown Buffalo" is.

I'd like to submit this Google Map (IOW, not mine) definition of "downtown Buffalo".  However, I completely agree with these boundaries and, in fact, have always considered this the "downtown" area.    

 

image.thumb.png.a2c124f31afbc0e5af3c550ccaba58a6.png

Anything West of Batavia is Buffalo to me 😄

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5 hours ago, ... said:

To be clear, this started with cars.  Not all people coming in drive solo, and some do actually use public transport.  I might accept 40k people without saying anything, but 40k cars needing a place to park in downtown?  No.

Do you live or work downtown?  No one carpools.  Like NO ONE unless a husband and wife happen to work near to each other.

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I lived and worked downtown for a long time.

Anyway, I did some quick maths.  Your average parking spot is 8' x 18'. X 40k = 5,760,000'

The boundaries for "downtown" are roughly 3150' x 6600' = 20,790,000'

That means 27.7% of "downtown" needs to be reserved for parking.  Probably more, actually, because of vehicles that come and go during the course of business.  Can we round up to an even 30% of all space downtown is solely for parking? Sure.

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Parking garages.  You are not considering building up and thus vastly understating the downtown area.

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15 minutes ago, ... said:

I lived and worked downtown for a long time.

Anyway, I did some quick maths.  Your average parking spot is 8' x 18'. X 40k = 5,760,000'

The boundaries for "downtown" are roughly 3150' x 6600' = 20,790,000'

That means 27.7% of "downtown" needs to be reserved for parking.  Probably more, actually, because of vehicles that come and go during the course of business.  Can we round up to an even 30% of all space downtown is solely for parking? Sure.

 

If only humankind could invent some way for cars to park above and below each other on the same footprint. Perhaps different levels could be connected by large, sloped inclines, similar to a sort of ramp. Maybe someday...

Also nice try with the Google maps definition of downtown buffalo. I suppose you don't consider commuters at blue Cross blue shield of the casino (for example) to be relevant to this discussion because they fall a block outside of that definition?

Good luck riding this argument all the way down.

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5 minutes ago, atoq said:
 

If only humankind could invent some way for cars to park above and below each other on the same footprint. Perhaps different levels could be connected by large, sloped inclines, similar to a sort of ramp. Maybe someday...

Also nice try with the Google maps definition of downtown buffalo. I suppose you don't consider commuters at blue Cross blue shield of the casino (for example) to be relevant to this discussion because they fall a block outside of that definition?

Good luck riding this argument all the way down.

On top of that, there's all that room under the skyway which is NOTHING BUT PARKING.

I think it's time to leave sizzle to his own thoughts.

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