PASabreFan Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) Schopp and the Bulldog had a moment of lucidity the other day. They have been loathe to talk about the Sabres since the Bills got hot. But I caught the tail end of a discussion about Vesey and the Sabres. Mike was saying he guessed the Sabres thought they'd get him because of his connection with Eichel and the "cachet" of the franchise under Pegula. Who wouldn't want to be a part of it? HarborCenter yada yada yada. He recounted a story I hadn't heard about Drury talking to Vesey about what it's like to play in Buffalo and how you're a big fish in a little pond and under the microscope, and in Manhattan you can fly under the radar (that cliche of the day desk calendar is coming in handy). (Drury IIRC once talked about being stalked in Wegmans or something.) Schopp then got to the heart of the matter, that there's a reckoning that has to take place about what is truly wrong with this franchise. He likened it to siblings sitting around talking about what's wrong with their father. "What's wrong with Dad?" Schopp said second, third and fourth opinions might be needed, given the maddening complexity of the situation. So... what is wrong with this franchise? What's REALLY wrong? We all have our first opinion. But when you drill down (sorry), what else could it be? I've been ruminating on it, and after I come back to the inevitable issue of poor ownership since the Knoxes, I do get to something else, but I'll save that for later. Edited November 30, 2017 by PASabreFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 Is this a thread about Pegula? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 Is this a thread about Pegula? It's a thread about whatever people think is the heart of the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 The heart of the problem is that the franchise has not had a talented FO team leading its hockey operations for an extended period of time (say, like, 5 years minimum). That's it. I know that's not as metaphysical as some would like, but that's really it. Unless and until that comes to pass, the team is apt to stink (even while stumbling into a playoff spot here or there). It's incumbent on the Pegulas to put that team in place (and maybe they only need to make 1 key hire to make it happen (and maybe Botterill is that 1 key hire)) and then largely* get the eff out of the way. * Yes, some level of meddling is to be expected. But I really do think the Bills absord most of that energy nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 Spoiled rich kids. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd1001 Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) 1. Pegula made a bad choice in Bringing on LaFontaine, whos decision it was to hire Murray. Murray is/was a few years behind the times in terms of building a team with speed, instead he focused on size. 2. You 'lost' the lottery 2 years when you had the best odds to win it. 3. You haven't drafted a legit all-star type player in the past 10-15 years (Eichel eventually, MAYBE Risto but I'm having doubts there) 4. Speaking of the Draft, in the past 12 years, You have 30 1st or 2nd round picks. How many have turned into legit top pair D-men or Top 6 forwards. Maybe 2? 5. You overpaid for O'Rielly and Okposo. Both are slow. They would have been very good/great in the NHL of 2 or 3 years ago, but with the speed of todays game, they are not good legit top line guys...yet you are paying them like top line guys for the next 5 years. 6. Developing talent...and this ties into the draft also. Who on this team was brought up through the Sabres system (and there should be a LOT considering the number of 1st and 2nd round picks they have had):Eichel, Reinhart, Risto, McCabe, Girgensons....are the only guys I know of that get significant ice time. The best thing the Sabres can do is fire the entire scouting department.....and go out and find who is the best scout in the league (maybe the best 3-4) and pay them as much as you need to join the Sabres. Edited November 30, 2017 by mjd1001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabills Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 Russ Brandon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacque Richard Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 Mjd1001,right on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 Murray is/was a few years behind the times in terms of building a team with speed, instead he focused on size. You haven't drafted a legit all-star type player in the past 10-15 years (Eichel eventually, MAYBE Risto but I'm having doubts there) Speaking of the Draft, in the past 12 years, You have 30 1st or 2nd round picks. How many have turned into legit top pair D-men or Top 6 forwards. Maybe 2? You overpaid for O'Rielly and Okposo. Both are slow. They would have been very good/great in the NHL of 2 or 3 years ago, but with the speed of todays game, they are not good legit top line guys...yet you are paying them like top line guys for the next 5 years.. This was a really good post - especially the items above. I got nervous when I kept reading the Tweets and articles about how errrwun (outside of Buffalo) was reportedly cutting weight before camp in an effort to be quicker and faster. We're still trying to emerge from the heavy (footed) model, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 How many teams are there in the league? Folks, all the teams can't win. There has to be losers. We are losers right now. There are many, many factors that go into this. It stinks, but some day, through luck and skill they will be good for a short amount of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAud Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 We get it. The OP hates the Pegulas. Nothing to see here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 It's all because of Darcy. Drafting badly for a decade ruined everything because no one had to earn their way on to this team. There's no internal competition in the org. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 They aren't praying hard enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 The one constant appears to be Simonick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 The one constant appears to be Simonick. Fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 We get it. The OP hates the Pegulas. Nothing to see here. It is kinda obvious where this is going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 We get it. The OP hates the Pegulas. Nothing to see here. Enough of that. For present purposes, anyway. It's all because of Darcy. Drafting badly for a decade ruined everything because no one had to earn their way on to this team. There's no internal competition in the org. I know he did a lot of poor drafting. But he also hit on a guy like Pominville in round 2 or 3, which is exactly what a team needs to push over the top. And don't forget the Miller lottery ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 It's all because of Darcy. Drafting badly for a decade ruined everything because no one had to earn their way on to this team. There's no internal competition in the org.Ding. Winner winner. Hard to take nights off when there's 3 guys younger then you in Rochester just begging for a chance. Starting with the 2016 draft we need to hit. 2017 was okay but again we need 2 players per draft and 3 players every 3rd draft to be NHL guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woods-racer Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 Ding. Winner winner. Hard to take nights off when there's 3 guys younger then you in Rochester just begging for a chance. Starting with the 2016 draft we need to hit. 2017 was okay but again we need 2 players per draft and 3 players every 3rd draft to be NHL guys. I'm thinking this is what Kane is going to be, more swings and misses in Rochester. Trading Kane will be giving Botterrill more chances of getting legitimate players in Rochester with a lot of competition just for ice time. The down side is it takes several years to pan out to a good NHL team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 No way Schopp and the Bulldog don't read this board. This is basically their topic for todays show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 No way Schopp and the Bulldog don't read this board. This is basically their topic for todays show. They would be stupid not to! This board shows what the most serious fans want to hear about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) 1. Pegula made a bad choice in Bringing on LaFontaine, whos decision it was to hire Murray. Murray is/was a few years behind the times in terms of building a team with speed, instead he focused on size. 2. You 'lost' the lottery 2 years when you had the best odds to win it. 3. You haven't drafted a legit all-star type player in the past 10-15 years (Eichel eventually, MAYBE Risto but I'm having doubts there) 4. Speaking of the Draft, in the past 12 years, You have 30 1st or 2nd round picks. How many have turned into legit top pair D-men or Top 6 forwards. Maybe 2? 5. You overpaid for O'Rielly and Okposo. Both are slow. They would have been very good/great in the NHL of 2 or 3 years ago, but with the speed of todays game, they are not good legit top line guys...yet you are paying them like top line guys for the next 5 years. 6. Developing talent...and this ties into the draft also. Who on this team was brought up through the Sabres system (and there should be a LOT considering the number of 1st and 2nd round picks they have had):Eichel, Reinhart, Risto, McCabe, Girgensons....are the only guys I know of that get significant ice time. The best thing the Sabres can do is fire the entire scouting department.....and go out and find who is the best scout in the league (maybe the best 3-4) and pay them as much as you need to join the Sabres. I agree with much of what you say. I'm not sure how much is on the scouting department versus the vision set by the GM (i.e., scouting makes recommendations, GM acts on those. I don't know that they are providing bad information; I only know what the GM is doing). But looking at the bolded: I think a part of this year's NHL strategy is to take those 5 players you named, each of which was either rushed to the NHL, asked to fill too high of a role on the team too quickly, or spent time in the AHL under bad coaching, is to fill in the gaps in their development to fit the future vision of this team. Thus, Jack, the most talented player on the team, is being taught the defensive side of the game, Reino is learning to be more physical, Risto is pulling up his defensive numbers in line with expectations. McCabe is settling in as a second pairing D. Girgs is playing a more systematic but still physical game. All these players have gaps in their development which are appearing to be addressed this year. You look at Vegas and say that if they can do it, we should be able to. But they had the benefit of an expansion draft, they don't have albatross contracts, and they don't have young stars developed under suspect and inconsistent coaching. This year is a reset year and judging this club by what you see this year is not going to tell the whole story. The sickness is passing, but the fever lingers. They aren't praying hard enough. My thoughts and prayers are with them in this trying time. Thoughts and prayers. Edited November 30, 2017 by Doohickie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabills Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 They would be stupid not to! This board shows what the most serious fans we want to hear about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 It's a thread about whatever people think is the heart of the problem. So it's about the Peguals. Is this another "put 'em on trial" thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabills Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 Not that I'm saying that's a problem. I'd bet "most fans" prefer the Petey and Craig Fightin' Guys Hour more, though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.