Jbot Do Something Already Part 2

[jsb]

22 hours ago, Thorny said:

I'm growing skeptical it's really holding everything up, and that the lack of trades isn't more just like every other time word around the league says "trades are coming!" and they never happen, see: drafts, deadlines, etc. 

Teams must have a rough idea of what these guys are going to cost, usually within a couple million or less. If it's completely prohibitive from moves being made, especially when teams can exceed the cap during the off-season, they probably aren't doing a very good job of planning. 

Also, more to the point, "RFA constipation" doesn't count as a valid excuse for Botterill should he fail to upgrade the team to the point where we see substantial improvement. 

 

 

[dudacek]

From Justin Bourne in the Athletic:

“The explicit goal of a GM is to win the Cup for their organization. Except … except the real goal, really, is to have one of the 31 GM jobs around the league for long enough that you don’t have to worry about money or stature. Those are coveted, exciting positions. You’d take a 30-year GM career over a three year one that comes with a Stanley Cup, I think. That’s sacrilege to say publicly, but I think it’s true. That comment alone may come with some uproar, because fans need to believe that the shiny silver thing trumps all (that belief is what makes the sport work), but yeah: being a GM for a long time is a big part of the goal of GMing. These humans are just human and good jobs are good to have. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So when you take over a bad team, or even a mediocre team that might be salvageable, the best thing to do, selfishly, is to blow it all up. By doing that you’ve instantly guaranteed yourself three years in that job at a minimum, likely more if you can show even a scant hint of progress, and the blow-up move also sort of points the finger at the guy you’re taking over from. That alone is usually a popular internal move, given the team’s owner just fired the guy you’re now co-slagging.

After you blow it up, you then suck for a bit while you’re still fresh in your job and secure (free pass years), then you get some high draft picks, then you get to sell hope and patience as those guys mature into your “next core.” This isn’t a script we haven’t seen before. I think we’re into year four of the job already now, and our hypothetical team hasn’t even tried to compete yet.”

(For the record, it’s a column about Kevin Cheveldayoff, not Botterill.)

[SABRES 0311]

51 minutes ago, dudacek said:

From Justin Bourne in the Athletic:

“The explicit goal of a GM is to win the Cup for their organization. Except … except the real goal, really, is to have one of the 31 GM jobs around the league for long enough that you don’t have to worry about money or stature. Those are coveted, exciting positions. You’d take a 30-year GM career over a three year one that comes with a Stanley Cup, I think. That’s sacrilege to say publicly, but I think it’s true. That comment alone may come with some uproar, because fans need to believe that the shiny silver thing trumps all (that belief is what makes the sport work), but yeah: being a GM for a long time is a big part of the goal of GMing. These humans are just human and good jobs are good to have. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So when you take over a bad team, or even a mediocre team that might be salvageable, the best thing to do, selfishly, is to blow it all up. By doing that you’ve instantly guaranteed yourself three years in that job at a minimum, likely more if you can show even a scant hint of progress, and the blow-up move also sort of points the finger at the guy you’re taking over from. That alone is usually a popular internal move, given the team’s owner just fired the guy you’re now co-slagging.

After you blow it up, you then suck for a bit while you’re still fresh in your job and secure (free pass years), then you get some high draft picks, then you get to sell hope and patience as those guys mature into your “next core.” This isn’t a script we haven’t seen before. I think we’re into year four of the job already now, and our hypothetical team hasn’t even tried to compete yet.”

(For the record, it’s a column about Kevin Cheveldayoff, not Botterill.)

I agree with this. For JBott this is a chance to show 30 teams what he can do because I don’t see a cup in his time here. It’s more of a chance to gain experience and showcase himself. 

Then again he didn’t blow anything up. He got rid of two big names, making room for the younger big names to step in. 

[PASabreFan]

Nailed it. And the fans are complicit by being more than happy to follow prospects, analytics, uniform colors, owner antics etc. instead of a real NHL team.

[darksabre]

11 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Nailed it. And the fans are complicit by being more than happy to follow prospects, analytics, uniform colors, owner antics etc. instead of a real NHL team.

This is, of course, the wrong take.

[nfreeman]

4 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Nailed it. And the fans are complicit by being more than happy to follow prospects, analytics, uniform colors, owner antics etc. instead of a real NHL team.

Does the Sabres' fan base seem "more than happy" with the current state of affairs to you?

[PASabreFan]

Just now, nfreeman said:

Does the Sabres' fan base seem "more than happy" with the current state of affairs to you?

That's a different question.

[PASabreFan]

4 hours ago, darksabre said:

This is, of course, the wrong take.

If you say so. You think corporations and marketing departments don't dream about having customers who don't care that the product is *****?

Bob: "Well, put more horse meat in it then!"

Jim: "They'll still eat it! It's incredible!"

[LGR4GM]

6 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Nailed it. And the fans are complicit by being more than happy to follow prospects, analytics, uniform colors, owner antics etc. instead of a real NHL team.

The Sabres don't give 2 shits if we follow prospects, analytics, and uniform colors. They care if people buy their product. That's why I don't have a new jersey and why I stopped buying tickets. The most support I have given financially is the prospect game and I got those tickets for free. But hey, thanks for telling me I am complicit in this team doing things like playing Sobotka literally at all. Glad to know I have that kind of power even though I think that decision did and should have resulted in Phil getting fired. Cheers. 

Edited September 23, 2019 by LGR4GM
spelling

[nfreeman]

43 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

That's a different question.

How so?  Here's what you said:

37 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

If you say so. You think corporations and marketing departments don't dream about having customers who don't care that the product is *****?

Bob: "Well, put more horse meat in it then!"

Jim: "They'll still eat it! It's incredible!"

Again:  do you think that the Sabres' fan base "doesn't care that the product is ****?"

Or perhaps it can be true that many Sabres fans enjoy following their prospects AND that they are simultaneously unhappy with the state of the franchise.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

How so?  Here's what you said:

Again:  do you think that the Sabres' fan base "doesn't care that the product is ****?"

Or perhaps it can be true that many Sabres fans enjoy following their prospects AND that they are simultaneously unhappy with the state of the franchise.

Such as me for example? I can’t wait for the Sabres to turn the corner.  I’m the author of this thread and other imploring Jbot to fix the dang them.  

 

[PerreaultForever]

57 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Such as me for example? I can’t wait for the Sabres to turn the corner.  I’m the author of this thread and other imploring Jbot to fix the dang them.  

 

I think we might be right at that corner and maybe even are going to turn it. The thing about a wealth of prospects is at some point they either are the real deal or they are not. Sometimes a bunch of them are ready at once and those teams turn the corner fast. If a bunch of things go right all at once suddenly you are a contender and everyone gets on the bandwagon. I will paint a possible scenario here.

Kreuger turns out to be a great coach and great motivator with a great system. GA are way down. Add points to the standings.

Risto finds his game paired with Dahlin who matures quickly. A dynamic solid D pairing and Dahlin energizes our PP. Add points.

Skinner keeps his game, Jack is peaking Sam becomes a full season star,   Top nhl line. Add points.

Ullmark becomes a top notch goalie at last. Wins close  games for us like Binnington did for St. Louis. Add points. 

A bunch of young forwards all improve. Olofsson shines. Cozens can play. Johanson stays healthy and leads. We have a middle roster that scores some goals.

We have D depth and solid play from Miller, Mountour, Scandella. Good enough that Bogo comes back healthy and can't even make the roster. Good enough that people forget Nelson's name.

Can you see it??? It's possible. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

8 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I think we might be right at that corner and maybe even are going to turn it. The thing about a wealth of prospects is at some point they either are the real deal or they are not. Sometimes a bunch of them are ready at once and those teams turn the corner fast. If a bunch of things go right all at once suddenly you are a contender and everyone gets on the bandwagon. I will paint a possible scenario here.

Kreuger turns out to be a great coach and great motivator with a great system. GA are way down. Add points to the standings.

Risto finds his game paired with Dahlin who matures quickly. A dynamic solid D pairing and Dahlin energizes our PP. Add points.

Skinner keeps his game, Jack is peaking Sam becomes a full season star,   Top nhl line. Add points.

Ullmark becomes a top notch goalie at last. Wins close  games for us like Binnington did for St. Louis. Add points. 

A bunch of young forwards all improve. Olofsson shines. Cozens can play. Johanson stays healthy and leads. We have a middle roster that scores some goals.

We have D depth and solid play from Miller, Mountour, Scandella. Good enough that Bogo comes back healthy and can't even make the roster. Good enough that people forget Nelson's name.

Can you see it??? It's possible. 

You forgot one thing.....

Our prospects are good enough to undeniably push Sobotka off the cliff. Add several points.

Edited September 23, 2019 by MakeSabresGrr8Again

[Scottysabres]

Schopp and bulldog mentioning Sheary day to day and Risto. "ill", "if your believing that" lol.

Didn't some blogger post up a Sheary, Risto and 5wo 1sts for Laine?

Found their schtick on it funny....

[PASabreFan]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

The Sabres don't give 2 shits if we follow prospects, analytics, and uniform colors. They care if people buy their product. That's why I don't have a new jersey and why I stopped buying tickets. The most support I have given financially is the prospect game and I got those tickets for free. But hey, thanks for telling me I am complicit in this team doing things like playing Sobotka literally at all. Glad to know I have that kind of power even though I think that decision did and should have resulted in Phil getting fired. Cheers. 

They give more than two. You might not be buying the product, but you're promoting it for them. You also represent eyes and ears on the product that drive ratings and advertising revenue.

Food for thought: There are now hundreds of posts here for preseason Sabres games. During the President's Trophy season we'd be lucky to get 100 for some regular season games.

[PASabreFan]

5 hours ago, nfreeman said:

How so?  Here's what you said:

Again:  do you think that the Sabres' fan base "doesn't care that the product is ****?"

Or perhaps it can be true that many Sabres fans enjoy following their prospects AND that they are simultaneously unhappy with the state of the franchise.

Fan base as a whole? I'd say a lot (most?) don't care all that much about wins and losses. Remember the fan base as represented here on SabreSpace is a whole 'nother animal. This is fanatic land.

[Eleven]

21 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

 

Food for thought: There are now hundreds of posts here for preseason Sabres games. During the President's Trophy season we'd be lucky to get 100 for some regular season games.

Sure, but who was carrying the Internet around in their pockets in 2007?

[LGR4GM]

30 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

They give more than two. You might not be buying the product, but you're promoting it for them. You also represent eyes and ears on the product that drive ratings and advertising revenue.

Food for thought: There are now hundreds of posts here for preseason Sabres games. During the President's Trophy season we'd be lucky to get 100 for some regular season games.

Lol the Sabres don't care about me posting here. 

And as nfreeman pointed out, in 2007 the internet and access to it was completely different. 

29 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Fan base as a whole? I'd say a lot (most?) don't care all that much about wins and losses. Remember the fan base as represented here on SabreSpace is a whole 'nother animal. This is fanatic land.

Lol that's why you could get tickets for free 2 years ago. I got 2 200 level blueline tickets for free because a guy didn't want to watch them suck. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

17 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Food for thought: There are now hundreds of posts here for preseason Sabres games. During the President's Trophy season we'd be lucky to get 100 for some regular season games.

 

17 hours ago, Eleven said:

Sure, but who was carrying the Internet around in their pockets in 2007?

 

17 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

And as nfreeman pointed out, in 2007 the internet and access to it was completely different. 

While internet access has probably made a good bit of difference, I think there is a bigger reason behind the additional posts.

Uncertainty breeds contempt and contempt breeds discussion on how to fix things. In the '06-'07 season was there much question about our top 6 (even the top nine?). We've likely made our D better this off season (yet to be truly determined) but how much question was there in '06? Miller and Biron versus Hutton/ Ullmark? Stable coach vs new coaching staff?  A winning team vs an unknown entity.

All the uncertainties are what causes the discussions to be amped up. Do you talk much about your kitchen sink faucet before it starts leaking?

Edited September 24, 2019 by MakeSabresGrr8Again

[Curt]

32 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

While internet access has probably made a good bit of difference, I think there is a bigger reason behind the additional posts.

There is possibly no larger change on the planet from 2007-2019 than the change in the internet and its use.  

Most certainly the internet has changed many magnitudes more than the Sabres in that time frame.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

6 minutes ago, Curt said:

There is possibly no larger change on the planet from 2007-2019 than the change in the internet and its use.  

Most certainly the internet has changed many magnitudes more than the Sabres in that time frame.

Disagree slightly....internet hasn't changed as much as phones and services accessed by them. 

[LGR4GM]

13 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Disagree slightly....internet hasn't changed as much as phones and services accessed by them. 

So you agree that the reason there are more posts now is that there are more people with more access to the internet. Good, glad that is established. 

Edited September 24, 2019 by LGR4GM

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

So you agree that the reason there are more posts now is that their are more people with more access to the internet. Good, glad that is established. 

Not what I said, but thanks for mis-communicating that.

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Not what I said, but thanks for mis-communicating that.

But that's what occurred. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

But that's what occurred. 

But it's not what I said.