2018 - 2019 Lineup

[Randall Flagg]

I just can't imagine someone not beating Pommers out for a roster spot.

Our head coach thought it appropriate to play him next to Jack Eichel or Ryan O'Reilly for 45 games this season, including a batch of about 10 games in March and April, what bad teams like us call a time to "evaluate."

Edited July 2, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[GASabresIUFAN]

I'll feel a lot better if guys like Asplund and Olofsson kick our dead weight into oblivion. 

 

Please forgive my cynicism - it would be the first time in my life something like that happened organically and deservedly.

 

So would everyone else and that is Jbot’s plan.

[darksabre]

Our head coach thought it appropriate to play him next to Jack Eichel or Ryan O'Reilly for 45 games this season, including a batch of about 10 games in March and April, what bad teams like us call a time to "evaluate."

Who else was going to play there? If Pommers can't play in the top 6 he's not worth having on the team. So they had to play him there. It's the only place he might have been useful.

[That Aud Smell]

Funniest thing I saw on Twitter this morning is that our Bottom 6 has 15 guys.

Our top six has two.

 

RO(a)Ring with laughter over here.

[Randall Flagg]

Who else was going to play there? If Pommers can't play in the top 6 he's not worth having on the team. So they had to play him there. It's the only place he might have been useful.

Nylander and Mittelstadt were up, Rodrigues was scoring at a 60 point rate during that stretch of about 5 weeks, we had never done ROR-Jack-Reinhart in the mold that got Colorado from 48 points to the playoffs in one season despite "putting their only good players on one line" and leaving Alex Kerfoot and Carl Soderberg and Blake Comeau to fend for themselves. 

 

Pominville had displayed dozens of games of being an utter albatross in that very spot, shift in, shift out, despite his ability to pop in a pass once every five games in the 3 seconds of zone time they got. 

 

I stand by my stance that Phil is missing the one ingredient that makes good coaches good coaches. 

[WildCard]

I stand by my stance that Phil is missing the one ingredient that makes good coaches good coaches. 

Which is?

[darksabre]

Nylander and Mittelstadt were up, Rodrigues was scoring at a 60 point rate during that stretch of about 5 weeks, we had never done ROR-Jack-Reinhart in the mold that got Colorado from 48 points to the playoffs in one season despite "putting their only good players on one line" and leaving Alex Kerfoot and Carl Soderberg and Blake Comeau to fend for themselves.

 

Pominville had displayed dozens of games of being an utter albatross in that very spot, shift in, shift out, despite his ability to pop in a pass once every five games in the 3 seconds of zone time they got.

 

I stand by my stance that Phil is missing the one ingredient that makes good coaches good coaches.

It's possible he does.

 

The roster should be able to make the decision for him this year and Pommers should end up buried.

[thewookie1]

Which is?

A pinch of salt

[Randall Flagg]

Which is?

line building and matching in a manner that emphasizes what you have rather than what your ideal vision for an NHL team that isn't close to existing in your organization is. 

 

Do you know how many NHL coaches would have never won a cup with Patrick Kane, who has the worst defensive ability of any star player I've ever seen? Quenneville is a wizard for maximizing 95% of his players at the same time. Babs' tweaking of Henrik and Pavel as the team moved on is similar. Did Ovechkin really become a 30 goal scorer with the worst "minus" in the league one year? He won like five Rockets since then, so I don't think so. Did Giroux find second legs? No, he got slower, how did he increase his production by over 75% then? 

 

This stuff matters AND takes into account the juicy intangible chemistry aspect. Phil plays Eichel with one of Pominville or Okposo literally every single game of the season regardless of what happens and tries nothing else as our offense deteriorates. 

[dudacek]

Another interesting thing to watch that is getting less play in this year’s transactions “getting Phil the players he needs to play the game we both want to play.”

Edited July 2, 2018 by dudacek

[Hoss]

When we talk about lines I constantly think of Tortorella saying the lines in the NHL is legitimately just throwing darts and seeing what sticks.

[Randall Flagg]

Another interesting thing to watch that is getting less play in this year’s transactions “getting Phil the players he needs to play the game we both want to play.”

Exactly, it's confusing as hell. You can be bullish on all three guys we grabbed and notice that they're the exact opposite. 

[TrueBlueGED]

He needs players to be invested in and capable of their roles wherever they are in the lineup.

Off the ice, he needs key personalities to be pulling in the same direction because of the influence they have on the rest.

I’m always surprised by the lack of weight you give to the human part of team-building.

 

And I'm always surprised how much stock gets put into it. The notion of "the room" has almost become a caricature of itself, along the lines of "the code" for the value of enforcers. The best was seeing Jonathan Toews at a table with Crosby, Gretzky, Messier, and Lemieux. What in the actual hell was that? Toews is a great player, but he can't sniff the jock of any of those guys. Intangibles baby! But I guess he forgot how to lead as the Hawks have gone straight down the tubes? 

 

I've seen so many teams win with star players that don't get along, and so many teams continually lose despite being a "close group" that I just can't bring myself to buy into it much. It's sort of like faceoffs to me. It's not that they don't matter at all, but the circumstances where I'm picking one player or another because of them are pretty limited. 

 

PK Subban got traded because of "the room." Shea Weber was allegedly one of the best leaders in the league. Well, the Preds are Cup contenders and the Habs stink. Ditto for Taylor Hall not "being a leader." Moved, in part, to shake up "the room." Well, the Oilers stink because they don't have enough talent, while Hall is winning MVPs with a team on the upswing. The Bickering Bills hated each other, and then suddenly all was well when they started winning. Kobe and Shaq couldn't stand each other, and won 3 titles. Sammy Watkins was a prima donna who had to go, but somehow played on what ended up being one of the best teams in the league. Philly went from Cup contender to mediocre playoff team when they decided Richards and Carter could never be part of a winner, because of "the room." Phil Kessel and Mike Sullivan don't like each other. Somehow they still managed to win 2 Cups together. 

When we talk about lines I constantly think of Tortorella saying the lines in the NHL is legitimately just throwing darts and seeing what sticks.

 

This is true for second-rate coaches, sure.

Another interesting thing to watch that is getting less play in this year’s transactions “getting Phil the players he needs to play the game we both want to play.”

 

 

Exactly, it's confusing as hell. You can be bullish on all three guys we grabbed and notice that they're the exact opposite. 

 

Right? For all the talk about speed, and playing fast, we didn't improve on that front at all.

[darksabre]

And I'm always surprised how much stock gets put into it. The notion of "the room" has almost become a caricature of itself, along the lines of "the code" for the value of enforcers. The best was seeing Jonathan Toews at a table with Crosby, Gretzky, Messier, and Lemieux. What in the actual hell was that? Toews is a great player, but he can't sniff the jock of any of those guys. Intangibles baby! But I guess he forgot how to lead as the Hawks have gone straight down the tubes? 

 

I've seen so many teams win with star players that don't get along, and so many teams continually lose despite being a "close group" that I just can't bring myself to buy into it much. It's sort of like faceoffs to me. It's not that they don't matter at all, but the circumstances where I'm picking one player or another because of them are pretty limited. 

 

PK Subban got traded because of "the room." Shea Weber was allegedly one of the best leaders in the league. Well, the Preds are Cup contenders and the Habs stink. Ditto for Taylor Hall not "being a leader." Moved, in part, to shake up "the room." Well, the Oilers stink because they don't have enough talent, while Hall is winning MVPs with a team on the upswing. The Bickering Bills hated each other, and then suddenly all was well when they started winning. Kobe and Shaq couldn't stand each other, and won 3 titles. Sammy Watkins was a prima donna who had to go, but somehow played on what ended up being one of the best teams in the league. Philly went from Cup contender to mediocre playoff team when they decided Richards and Carter could never be part of a winner, because of "the room." Phil Kessel and Mike Sullivan don't like each other. Somehow they still managed to win 2 Cups together. 

 

This is true for second-rate coaches, sure.

 

 

 

Right? For all the talk about speed, and playing fast, we didn't improve on that front at all.

Can any of these guys we got make a pass? Because that would help a lot. 

[Randall Flagg]

Bold prediction: When we win again someday, the same "problems" will be in the room but the room won't be a "problem," and we will have a far more talented roster.

Can any of these guys we got make a pass? Because that would help a lot. 

Berglund, center, has 25 assists in his last 180 games played, and in 57 games last year made one pass play that led to a teammate scoring a goal off of a shot. 

[darksabre]

Bold prediction: When we win again someday, the same "problems" will be in the room but the room won't be a "problem," and we will have a far more talented roster.

 

Berglund, center, has 25 assists in his last 180 games played, and in 57 games last year made one pass play that led to a teammate scoring a goal off of a shot.

That sucks.

[WildCard]

Berglund, center, has 25 assists in his last 180 games played, and in 57 games last year made one pass play that led to a teammate scoring a goal off of a shot. 

Curious how you know this

[Randall Flagg]

Curious how you know this

It was outlined in an article inkman shared last night. The other assits were things like pucks bouncing off him to guys, or him taking shots that were deflected.

[dudacek]

And I'm always surprised how much stock gets put into it. The notion of "the room" has almost become a caricature of itself, along the lines of "the code" for the value of enforcers. The best was seeing Jonathan Toews at a table with Crosby, Gretzky, Messier, and Lemieux. What in the actual hell was that? Toews is a great player, but he can't sniff the jock of any of those guys. Intangibles baby! But I guess he forgot how to lead as the Hawks have gone straight down the tubes?

 

I've seen so many teams win with star players that don't get along, and so many teams continually lose despite being a "close group" that I just can't bring myself to buy into it much. It's sort of like faceoffs to me. It's not that they don't matter at all, but the circumstances where I'm picking one player or another because of them are pretty limited.

 

PK Subban got traded because of "the room." Shea Weber was allegedly one of the best leaders in the league. Well, the Preds are Cup contenders and the Habs stink. Ditto for Taylor Hall not "being a leader." Moved, in part, to shake up "the room." Well, the Oilers stink because they don't have enough talent, while Hall is winning MVPs with a team on the upswing. The Bickering Bills hated each other, and then suddenly all was well when they started winning. Kobe and Shaq couldn't stand each other, and won 3 titles. Sammy Watkins was a prima donna who had to go, but somehow played on what ended up being one of the best teams in the league. Philly went from Cup contender to mediocre playoff team when they decided Richards and Carter could never be part of a winner, because of "the room." Phil Kessel and Mike Sullivan don't like each other. Somehow they still managed to win 2 Cups together.

l.

 

I think we are talking past each other. You are speaking about “good people” and “getting along” I tend to agree with you that is overrated. I am talking about chemistry and human dynamics. Inter-personal relationships and how they affect organizations is key to managing people. It’s not about peace and love, it’s about creating a functioning entity. Kumbaya may breed confidence or complacency. Conflict may breed dissension or motivation. Locker room culture may seem silly to rational observers, but it is real to those living within it and it affects the way they interact and perform on the ice.

 

It’s more about situations and fit than it is about good or bad individuals. Evander Kane works in San Jose. He didn’t in Winnipeg. Trading Watkins worked for the Bills. Trading Subban did not work for the Canadiens.

 

The pieces in Buffalo clearly didn’t fit. Can’t see anyone disagreeing with that.

Sabres made a decision that this move was necessary to change it and while it may ultimately be the wrong decision, the reasons behind are not negligible because people are people and their environment affects them.

Edited July 2, 2018 by dudacek

[shrader]

And I'm always surprised how much stock gets put into it. The notion of "the room" has almost become a caricature of itself, along the lines of "the code" for the value of enforcers. The best was seeing Jonathan Toews at a table with Crosby, Gretzky, Messier, and Lemieux. What in the actual hell was that? Toews is a great player, but he can't sniff the jock of any of those guys. Intangibles baby! But I guess he forgot how to lead as the Hawks have gone straight down the tubes?

 

Every team needs a reserve center.

[Randall Flagg]

I think here we are talking past each other is that you or speaking about “good people” and “getting along” I am talking about chemistry and human dynamics. Inter-personal relationships and how they affect organizations is key to managing people. It’s not about peace and love, it’s about creating a functioning entity. Kumbaya may breed confidence or complacency. Conflict may breed dissension or motivation. Locker room culture may seem silly to rationale observers, but it is real to those living within it and it affects the way they interact and perform on the ice.

 

The pieces in Buffalo clearly didn’t fit. Can’t see anyone disagreeing with that.

Sabres made a decision that this move was necessary to change it and while it may ultimately be the wrong decision, the reasons behind are not negligible because people are people and their environment affects them.

I think we absolutely disagree on the ranking of the reasons for this in magnitude and importance. 

[TrueBlueGED]

I think we are talking past each other. You are speaking about “good people” and “getting along” I tend to agree with you that is overrated. I am talking about chemistry and human dynamics. Inter-personal relationships and how they affect organizations is key to managing people. It’s not about peace and love, it’s about creating a functioning entity. Kumbaya may breed confidence or complacency. Conflict may breed dissension or motivation. Locker room culture may seem silly to rationale observers, but it is real to those living within it and it affects the way they interact and perform on the ice.

 

It’s more about situations, than good or bad individuals. Evander Kane works in San Jose. He didn’t in Winnipeg. Trading Watkins worked for the Bills. Trading Subban did not work for the Canadiens.

 

The pieces in Buffalo clearly didn’t fit. Can’t see anyone disagreeing with that.

Sabres made a decision that this move was necessary to change it and while it may ultimately be the wrong decision, the reasons behind are not negligible because people are people and their environment affects them.

 

Let me try this: I don't think the team was good enough to know whether the pieces fit. 

[dudacek]

Let me try this: I don't think the team was good enough to know whether the pieces fit.

 

Fair.

Botterill disagreed, largely because he made a determination that you and Flagg are stubbornly resisting: that O’Reilly -as a Sabre - was lost.

[TrueBlueGED]

Fair.

Botterill disagreed, largely because he made a determination that you and Flagg are stubbornly resisting: that O’Reilly -as a Sabre - was lost.

 

I'm stubbornly resisting it because nothing on the ice, visible to us as fans, would suggest it was true. If he was so incredibly lost as a Sabre, why did he produce his best season as a Sabre?

[GASabresIUFAN]

Let me try this: I don't think the team was good enough to know whether the pieces fit.

 

I think there is some truth to this. The bottom six last year were terrible before the season started, we really had no goaltending, we lacked enough good wingers and had only half a D group.

 

Despite the hysteria in the ROR trade thread, the organization is so much deeper then a year ago. I mentioned this in the Thompson thread and should have put it here; go compare the bottom 6 last season to start the year (Pouliot, Larsson, Nolan, Josefson, Griffith and Moulson), and compare it to the projected one this year. This one is light years better.

 

Now compare D depth this year vs last. Last season we had guys like Falk, Gorges, Tennyson, Baloo and Antipin playing significant minutes on our D. This season all but Baloo is gone and talented players like Pilut may not even make the team.