Georgia Blizzard Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 Current cap situation in a nice, easily readable picture https://twitter.com/CapFriendly/status/889829051485097985 Sabres in good shape this year Next year is the killer 2019-2020 gets better, once you drope Moulson, Pommer off books Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 Agreed that it's not a stat I'm using to base who my starting goalie should be. I knew his shootout percentage was bad, I just didn't realize it was THAT bad. No, but the stat needs to factor in. If Lehner goes another full season without saving a single shootout attempt, he's gonzo. You need those points to make the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 Hard to complain about this deal. Fair to both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 Sabres in good shape this year Next year is the killer 2019-2020 gets better, once you drope Moulson, Pommer off books This is Moulson's last year with the Sabres. He has a salary of 2 mill next season. With a cap hit of $5 mill, but a low salary and decent production, I can see Jbot being able to trade him to a team needing to get to the cap floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 Shootouts are a part of the regular season game. Lehner is terrible at them. Whether fans like it or not, those points on the table in shootout situations are critical. Lehner is also suspect along the posts from time to time. Personally, I don't view a 1 year deal as a "show me" deal. I view it as a stop gap measure. I'm of the opinion Botteril has something else in mind for goaltending down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 Current cap situation in a nice, easily readable picture https://twitter.com/CapFriendly/status/889829051485097985 If zemgus' agent asks for 5x2 would you do it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubkev Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 If zemgus' agent asks for 5x2 would you do it ? 2 million over 5 years, sure. 5 million over 2 years, you can right off with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-90 W Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 Shootouts are a part of the regular season game. Lehner is terrible at them. Whether fans like it or not, those points on the table in shootout situations are critical. Lehner is also suspect along the posts from time to time. Personally, I don't view a 1 year deal as a "show me" deal. I view it as a stop gap measure. I'm of the opinion Botteril has something else in mind for goaltending down the road. I actually agree with some of this. It is a show me year but not for us. I too think JB is using it as a stop gap and Lehner will get a bigger contract elsewhere. I do like how cap oriented JB is. If zemgus' agent asks for 5x2 would you do it ? No way Jose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 2 million over 5 years, sure. 5 million over 2 years, you can ###### right off with that. If he doesn't become more than a 4th liner, paying him 2mill a year is expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubkev Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 If he doesn't become more than a 4th liner, paying him 2mill a year is expensive. I'd make him take a paycut to stay after last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 I'd make him take a paycut to stay after last season. You'd have to make the entire team take a paycut if we're basing this on performance under Byslma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgia Blizzard Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 This is Moulson's last year with the Sabres. He has a salary of 2 mill next season. With a cap hit of $5 mill, but a low salary and decent production, I can see Jbot being able to trade him to a team needing to get to the cap floor. I heard that concept before with Moulson, while I love it, how practical is it ? Right now, all teams are at cap floor, will someone actually struggle to get there next year ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 Anyone else think a goalie's ability in the shootout is somewhat indicative of his ability to read shots / players during the game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgia Blizzard Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 Whether it belongs in hockey or not it's here and the Sabres left 6 points on the table in shootouts this season. The Lightning and Islanders both missed the playoffs by one point. Ottawa picked up 6 points in shootouts this year. Without those 6 points they miss the playoffs entirely. It doesn't really matter if you individually agree with the process of doling out points or not, it's the way it's done and those points make a big difference in the standings and if you ignore those points as a team you find yourself on the outside looking in at the end of the year pining for another point or two. While you are correct that a team can bring in the backup goalie to do the shootout they typically don't pull a cold goalie in to do that in those situations. The following is the 2016-17 shootout save percentage for every goalie in the league. The purpose is not to say that Michael Neuvirth is a better goaltender than Carey Price based on this number, however when you look at it I think it's pretty clear that there is an average level of performance that one can expect from any NHL level goaltender in a shootout situation (saving roughly 2 of every 3 attempts) and Lehner is FAR below that standard over his Sabre career, not just last season. The only other player with a 0% was Juuse Saros and he only had 2 shots against. Anthony Stolarz was the #3 goalie in Philadelphia, Peter Budaj is a career backup. That brings us to the 5-9 from the bottom with Cam Ward, Al Montoya, Jeremy Smith, Braden Holtby, and Antti Raanta all at 50%. Lehner is at 0% this year and 14% over the last two years. What's disturbing to me is that Lehner's percentage in Ottawa was 68.2% over two seasons with many more shots against. That was also before his surgeries. Something has been very different since then and you have to wonder if it's going to come back or if this is who he is now. Has he lost something physically that is manifesting itself much more in 1:1 situations than it is in the normal run of play? I don't have the video go analyze the past two seasons to see how he's getting beaten and if there is a consistent pattern or not. Johnathan Quick 100% Michael Neuvirth 100% Phillip Grubauer 100% Louis Dominique 93.3% Jacob Markstrom 88.9% Petr Mrazek 86.7% Corey Crawford 85.7% Jimmy Howard 83.3% Brian Elliot 83% Ben Bishop (Kings) 81.8% Chad Johnson 80% Andrei Vasilevskiy 80% Curtis McElhinney 80% Keith Kinkaid 80% Ryan Miller 80% Steve Mason 77.8% John Gibson 77.8% Martin Jones 77.8% Tuuka Rask 75% Calvin Pickard 75% Carter Hutton 75% Connor Hellebuyck 75% Pekka Rinne 73.3% Jake Allen 73.3% Carey Price 72.7 Corey Schneider 72.7% James Reimer 71.4% Jared Coreau 66.7% Scott Darling 66.7% Anton Khudobin 66.7% Jhonas Enroth 66.7% Matt Murray 66.7% Eddie Lack 66.7% Johnathan Bernier 66.7% Anders Nilsson 66.7% Devan Dubnyk 65% Ben Bishop (Lightning) 64.7% Roberto Luongo 63.6% Jaroslav Halak 62.5% Mike Smith 61.5% Sergei Bobrovsky 60% Cam Talbot 59.3% Thomas Greiss 57.9% Henrik Lundqvist 55.6% Kari Lehtonen 54.5% Marc-Andre Fleury 53.3% Freddy Andersen 52.2% Al Montoya 50% Jeremy Smith 50% Antti Raanta 50% Braden Holtby 50% Cam Ward 50% Peter Budaj 46.2% Anthony Stolarz 33.3% Juuse Saros 0% Robin Lehner 0% Unfortunately I think his futility will get between his ears and it will be even harder for him to fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 This is Moulson's last year with the Sabres. He has a salary of 2 mill next season. With a cap hit of $5 mill, but a low salary and decent production, I can see Jbot being able to trade him to a team needing to get to the cap floor. It's at least 50/50 that Moulson drops far enough off the table this year that no one is willing to devote a roster spot to him next season, let alone pay him $2MM. If zemgus' agent asks for 5x2 would you do it ? I wouldn't give Zemgus $5MM x 2 years or $2MM x 5 years. He's earned, at best, something like $2MM x 2 years. Anyone else think a goalie's ability in the shootout is somewhat indicative of his ability to read shots / players during the game? Not really. I think it's more a measure of reaction time and lateral quickness as well as having film study of team's shooters and tendencies. I think Lehner's shootout struggles are indicative of allowing himself to get mentally intimidated by the situation -- kinda like a baseball player in a hitting slump who knows he's struggling and just wants to get his at-bats over with, so he swings wildly at anything and of course keeps striking out. Unfortunately I think his futility will get between his ears and it will be even harder for him to fix. Beat me to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoPuckYourself Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 It's an "ok" deal, I'm not a huge fan of Lehner, he's been inconsistent since we traded for him or injured. I was hoping Ullmark would be the backup, now Chad Johnson is taking away from Ullmark which is just as bad. I like Johnson as a backup but I wanted to find out if Ullmark truly is the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 Anyone else think a goalie's ability in the shootout is somewhat indicative of his ability to read shots / players during the game? No, Enroth routinely sucked at them until he did some hardcore Miller training and then he stopped over 20 straight shootout shots. Throughout all of that he was merely mediocre in net during gameplay. It's mostly mental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trettioåtta Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 It's an "ok" deal, I'm not a huge fan of Lehner, he's been inconsistent since we traded for him or injured. I was hoping Ullmark would be the backup, now Chad Johnson is taking away from Ullmark which is just as bad. I like Johnson as a backup but I wanted to find out if Ullmark truly is the future. He is the 27th highest paid goalie in the league. It is better than ok. People's unfounded love for the unproven Ulmark reminds me of the love for Enroth. Let's hope people are a little more accurate this time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 He is the 27th highest paid goalie in the league. It is better than ok. People's unfounded love for the unproven Ulmark reminds me of the love for Enroth. Let's hope people are a little more accurate this time... This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 It's an "ok" deal, I'm not a huge fan of Lehner, he's been inconsistent since we traded for him or injured. I was hoping Ullmark would be the backup, now Chad Johnson is taking away from Ullmark which is just as bad. I like Johnson as a backup but I wanted to find out if Ullmark truly is the future. I don't think you'd be able to do that with him in the backup role. Playing more often in Rochester will be better for his development and give a better indication of his future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) I heard that concept before with Moulson, while I love it, how practical is it ? Right now, all teams are at cap floor, will someone actually struggle to get there next year ? I would pay $2 million a year for last year's Moulson if I needed a finisher on my power play. 15 goals and 30 points are nothing to sneeze at in today's NHL. I don't think you'd be able to do that with him in the backup role. Playing more often in Rochester will be better for his development and give a better indication of his future. This. Also, if Lehner posts similar numbers as last year, except with more wins, does he get a long-term deal? Edited July 26, 2017 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 I would pay $2 million a year for last year's Moulson if I needed a finisher on my power play. 15 goals and 30 points are nothing to sneeze at in today's NHL. This. Also, if Lehner posts similar numbers as last year, except with more wins, does he get a long-term deal? Robviously kept saying it last season, but I just don't see him as the goalie to lead a team to a Cup. I can see Lukkokkakekkakekpaken as being that guy though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trettioåtta Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 Robviously kept saying it last season, but I just don't see him as the goalie to lead a team to a Cup. I can see Lukkokkakekkakekpaken as being that guy though I'd be surprised if anyone 7 years ago saw Crawford as the guy to lead the Hawks to three cups. The fact is we have an elite centre(s) now. We shouldn't need a goalie to lead us there, we now just need a goalie who is good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 I would pay $2 million a year for last year's Moulson if I needed a finisher on my power play. 15 goals and 30 points are nothing to sneeze at in today's NHL. This. Also, if Lehner posts similar numbers as last year, except with more wins, does he get a long-term deal? Only if he learns to stop pucks in the shootout. As of right now, I'm operating under the assumption that if a game goes the distance, to a shootout, we've already lost. I detest that feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LikeEich Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 Robviously kept saying it last season, but I just don't see him as the goalie to lead a team to a Cup. I can see Lukkokkakekkakekpaken as being that guy though Ukkolukkopekkarinne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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