GoPre Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 In the NFL, if a player does not want to sign w/ a team that drafted them, aren't they allowed to sit out 1 season and enter the next draft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 In the NFL, if a player does not want to sign w/ a team that drafted them, aren't they allowed to sit out 1 season and enter the next draft? Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 How do we know we offered Okposo the most money? Didn't we know for a fact that we didn't offer Okposo the most money? Or am I misremembering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoPre Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 (edited) Yep. NHL should go that route. Prevents a player from gaining control. If Petersen didn't want to come to Buffalo, he could enter next years draft. The Sabres, after being turned down by Petersen, than have an opportunity to trade him for a pick or prospect. Edited June 1, 2017 by GoPre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 My point being that Okposo signed for who offered him the most cash, it wasn't the allure of downtown Buffalo. Bad analogy on Ladd, that's a horrible contract but I made the mistake of bad remembering, I thought he got 4M annually. Agree totally that the system is bad to allow this. You should play for who drafted you but what else do you expect from the NHL. OKposo and Murray may have been blowing smoke, but the story was the Sabres were his first choice and his first call. He approached us immediately to see if he could get a fair deal done here and signed when it was offered. I posted about people not making a bigger deal of it at the time exactly because of the Because Buffalo myth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoPre Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 (edited) #Racist No offense, but jokes, if that is one, like that are very inappropriate. Edited June 1, 2017 by GoPre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 NHL should go that route. Prevents a player from gaining control. If Petersen didn't want to come to Buffalo, he could enter next years draft. The Sabres, after being turned down by Petersen, than have an opportunity to trade him for a pick or prospect. That's already the case for all players under 21, but it would be a very good idea to extend that to players leaving college at age 21. Just for the first year. Great idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two or less Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 You're 30 days away from being able to shop around a bit and really figure out what you think would be the best fit. Maybe that best fit does wind up being the team that drafted you*, but there's only one way to find out. You'd be crazy not to take advantage of that. *I'm not holding my breath on that one. That's the issue, he is just 30 days away from free agency freedom. Sabres drafted him when he was a raw prospect in the 5th round, and spend a lot of time and money to helping him develop. Notre Dame doesn't have a goalie coach and the Sabres had send Andrew Allen to work with Petersen after practice and watch film with him in his off-time, to help his development. Which clearly worked. Allen didn't go there out because he's a really nice guy, he went there because the Sabres paid him to go. But yeah, i think he's gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 (edited) That's the issue, he is just 30 days away from free agency freedom. Sabres drafted him when he was a raw prospect in the 5th round, and spend a lot of time and money to helping him develop. Notre Dame doesn't have a goalie coach and the Sabres had send Andrew Allen to work with Petersen after practice and watch film with him in his off-time, to help his development. Which clearly worked. Allen didn't go there out because he's a really nice guy, he went there because the Sabres paid him to go. But yeah, i think he's gone. Some times investments don't work out. To bad. Trade his rights to get something out of him. Edited June 1, 2017 by GASabresFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas23 Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 (edited) It'll be interesting where he ends up. It seems 2 crowds are forming. The he wants a chance to start crowd and the he doesn't want to live in Buffalo crowd. It could be both, but we'll find out just like how we found out Vesey didn't want to play for Sabres or his hometown team. As for Peterson the player, as some have pointed out, he's turning into more of a myth than a great prospect. The comparisons to Miller are off the mark. Who knows, maybe he'll end being better, but that could be the case with any goalie prospect. Edited June 1, 2017 by kas23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhMyDahlin Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Does he sign with Buffalo? We have exclusive rights for 30 days I think the Sabres know he won't (or doesn't want to) sign with them, and that they could also possibly lose Ullmark in the expansion draft...which is why they signed Jonas Johansson earlier than they had to. I also think that Cal Petersen will want to go "home" to where his career started, in Chicago, and play for the Blackhawks. Stan Bowman went to Notre Dame, and certainly has connections to those guys there. Vinnie Hinostroza grew up with Cal Petersen, as they both played together for the Waterloo Blackhawks and at Notre Dame, and he is now a prospect within the Blackhawks system. Most importantly, the Blackhawks don't have any good young goalie prospects, and there's literally nobody behind Corey Crawford right now, who will be 33 years old this December. A trip from Waterloo to Chicago is four hours or so, and a flight is just over an hour...so his parents can easily get to every game he plays. (Waterloo to Rockford is a three hour drive, and less than an hour flight.) I think the kid ends up signing in Chicago, but I really hope I'm wrong. (Dennis Gilbert, his Notre Dame teammate, is also a prospect in the Blackhawks system.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Yep. I think, like Vesey, it's about him wanting to go to a particular place, and Chicago seems the most likely spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhMyDahlin Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) It probably serves a team better to take that late round stab at a college guy over a CHL guy5. You control the player for 4 years, giving you more time to figure out whether or not they're worth anything. Compare that to having to make your mind up after two years when the player is still a teenager, very early in their development curve. I think that was a big part of Murray's approach to the draft. There was a good number of USHL/NCAA and europeans taken with the later picks. As for how draft picks have been used in that regard...I kind of have the break-down of numbers, since the 2000 NHL draft. (Granted, this isn't just limited to Murray or Botterill.) Buffalo ranks 3rd drafting Major Junior players at 52.1%, 20th in NCAA players at 27.1%, and 25th in European players at 20.7%. Pittsburgh ranks 22nd in drafting Major Junior players at 40%, 1st in NCAA players at 42.4%, and 28th in European players at 17.6%. But Murray definitely leaned heavily towards CHL and European players, while the Penguins continue to lean on NCAA players in the draft and undrafted free agency. In his three drafts, Murray drafted 6 NCAA players...Eichel, Fitzgerald, Borgen, Murray, Nyberg and Chukarov. (Nyberg was scouted out of the SuperElit, so he could be considered a European...all the others were in the United States.) Right now the Penguins currently have just one unsigned CHL player in Connor Hall, two unsigned euros in Gustavsson and Almari, and nine unsigned NCAA players in Bjokqvist, Pavlychev, Masonius, Jones, Lafferty, Angello, Byron, Tiffels, Birks, and they just signed Taylor who was a draft pick...they also signed Zac Aston-Reese as a free agent to an NHL contract, as well as NCAA free agents Troy Josephs and Dylan Zink to AHL contracts. Long story short, I think we will see quite a shift in how we draft, and Botterill will begin to lean heavily on the NCAA with his draft picks. Just a few others NCAA players they've brought in throughout the last few years... Thomas Di Pauli - Signed as an free agent, after he "Vesey'd" the Capitals. Ethan Prow - Undrafted NCAA free agent Conor Sheary - Undrafted NCAA free agent Carter Rowney - Undrafted NCAA free agent Teddy Bluegers - NCAA draft pick (2nd round) Bryan Rust - NCAA draft pick (3rd round) Jake Guentzel - NCAA draft pick (3rd round) Sean Maguire - NCAA draft pick (4th round) Josh Archibald - NCAA draft pick (6th round) Scott Wilson - NCAA draft pick (7th round) Ian Cole was an NCAA draft pick in 2007, which is when Botterill started working as a scout. Brian Dumoulin was an NCAA draft pick in 2009, when Botterill was working as a scout. Justin Schultz and Chad Ruhwedel were NCAA players, whom Botterfill could've/would've scouted. Lol, again, needless to say...I think Jason Botterill really likes NCAA hockey players, whether it's in the draft or free agency. (***Sources for the draft numbers are from the Hockey News draft preview magazine...all other information is through my own research.) Edited June 2, 2017 by Dank Dangleson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkMeadow Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Well done! I learn a lot whenever I come to this board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoPre Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Dank needs to post more often. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhMyDahlin Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Well done! I learn a lot whenever I come to this board. Thank you. I've become disgustingly obsessed with this stuff. I have a notebook where I keep track of prospects and signings. I really don't know why, but I guess it's a hobby of mine. (I know, it's freaking weird.) It all started when I was in high school and college, I would keep track to update rosters on the NHL video game (and Madden too)...I don't play video games as much anymore, but for some reason this stuff still intrigues me. Dank needs to post more often. Thanks, GoPre. I try to post whenever I see something I feel like I can add to the conversation. I had some bad experiences here before, so I stopped visiting. But this time of the year is what I like the most, especially when the Sabres aren't winning much lately...I follow every team closely, I really enjoy the building the team aspect of sports. My friend (former high school football teammate) just got promoted to Director of College Scouting for the Kansas City Chiefs, I told him I wish he worked in hockey instead. Lol. I'll try to come around more often. (To be honest, I sometimes forget I even posted something here or on TwoBillsDrive.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEbriate Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Well done! I learn a lot whenever I come to this board. And then there's this... This will be a day long remembered. It has seen the signing of Johansson. Soon it will see the end of the Petersen. Just like Vesey (and many before him and many after) more power to him. Petersen went to college for many (probably good) reasons and now he has choice, just like you or I do in our own job search. Go get 'em, Cal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Dank needs to post more often. Indeed. We've lost a few during the tank. It's nice to replenish the ranks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Good stuff Dank. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PotentPowerPlay22 Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 As for how draft picks have been used in that regard...I kind of have the break-down of numbers, since the 2000 NHL draft. (Granted, this isn't just limited to Murray or Botterill.) Buffalo ranks 3rd drafting Major Junior players at 52.1%, 20th in NCAA players at 27.1%, and 25th in European players at 20.7%. Pittsburgh ranks 22nd in drafting Major Junior players at 40%, 1st in NCAA players at 42.4%, and 28th in European players at 17.6%. But Murray definitely leaned heavily towards CHL and European players, while the Penguins continue to lean on NCAA players in the draft and undrafted free agency. In his three drafts, Murray drafted 6 NCAA players...Eichel, Fitzgerald, Borgen, Murray, Nyberg and Chukarov. (Nyberg was scouted out of the SuperElit, so he could be considered a European...all the others were in the United States.) Right now the Penguins currently have just one unsigned CHL player in Connor Hall, two unsigned euros in Gustavsson and Almari, and nine unsigned NCAA players in Bjokqvist, Pavlychev, Masonius, Jones, Lafferty, Angello, Byron, Tiffels, Birks, and they just signed Taylor who was a draft pick...they also signed Zac Aston-Reese as a free agent to an NHL contract, as well as NCAA free agents Troy Josephs and Dylan Zink to AHL contracts. Long story short, I think we will see quite a shift in how we draft, and Botterill will begin to lean heavily on the NCAA with his draft picks. Just a few others NCAA players they've brought in throughout the last few years... Thomas Di Pauli - Signed as an free agent, after he "Vesey'd" the Capitals. Ethan Prow - Undrafted NCAA free agent Conor Sheary - Undrafted NCAA free agent Carter Rowney - Undrafted NCAA free agent Teddy Bluegers - NCAA draft pick (2nd round) Bryan Rust - NCAA draft pick (3rd round) Jake Guentzel - NCAA draft pick (3rd round) Sean Maguire - NCAA draft pick (4th round) Josh Archibald - NCAA draft pick (6th round) Scott Wilson - NCAA draft pick (7th round) Ian Cole was an NCAA draft pick in 2007, which is when Botterill started working as a scout. Brian Dumoulin was an NCAA draft pick in 2009, when Botterill was working as a scout. Justin Schultz and Chad Ruhwedel were NCAA players, whom Botterfill could've/would've scouted. Lol, again, needless to say...I think Jason Botterill really likes NCAA hockey players, whether it's in the draft or free agency. (***Sources for the draft numbers are from the Hockey News draft preview magazine...all other information is through my own research.) Throw in Sidney Crosby, Malkin, Kessel and you might have something to work with. I wonder how those guys would do with Gionta, Girgensons, etc.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 NHL should go that route. Prevents a player from gaining control. If Petersen didn't want to come to Buffalo, he could enter next years draft. The Sabres, after being turned down by Petersen, than have an opportunity to trade him for a pick or prospect. Petersen has waited FOUR years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Ian Cole was an NCAA draft pick in 2007, which is when Botterill started working as a scout. Brian Dumoulin was an NCAA draft pick in 2009, when Botterill was working as a scout. Justin Schultz and Chad Ruhwedel were NCAA players, whom Botterfill could've/would've scouted. Lol, again, needless to say...I think Jason Botterill really likes NCAA hockey players, whether it's in the draft or free agency. I don't think we have any evidence how Botterill will draft. He wasn't in charge of the draft in Pittsburgh. He may focus on the NCAA bound players but he also doesn't have the same scouts or GM giving input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoPre Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) Petersen has waited FOUR years. Petersen played 3 years at Notre Dame, not 4. Takes time to improve. Takes time to reach a level of potential people say you can reach. Ryan Miller put in 3 years. Even Marty St. Louis waited until after his junior year in college. Edited June 2, 2017 by GoPre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) Petersen played 3 years at Notre Dame, not 4. Takes time to improve. Takes time to reach a level of potential people say you can reach. Ryan Miller put in 3 years. Even Marty St. Louis waited until after his junior year in college. He was drafted in 2013, four years ago. Miller and St. Louis were drafted under previous CBAs and different rules applied to them. I'm not completely sure what point you are trying to make with them. St. Louis went undrafted and signed as a free agent.at the age of 22 (or 21 depending on the calendar date). Petersen is the same age. Ryan Miller decided to sign with Buffalo 3 years after being drafted. He did not have the option of leaving at that point. Edited June 2, 2017 by shrader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Dank! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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