SwampD Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 What's the environmental harm in using as much water as you want? Where I live, it's abundant and cheap. Conserving is fine, but it's only a symbolic gesture. It all ends up in the Allegheny anyway. Water can't be destroyed. I imagine that the less water I use, the less energy will be needed to treat the water, both before and after it gets to me. That seems like pennies in savings. I suppose I would also be saving a little on gas for the hot water tank. What arguments for saving water am I missing? A lot. The energy to treat it before it gets to you. The energy to treat it after you use it. Streams that were deep and flowing and could sustain life (yes I like to fish) are now sun-baked algae riddled trickles. Dams are probably the most harmful thing humans do to their environment. And that's sayin' a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 A lot. The energy to treat it before it gets to you. The energy to treat it after you use it. Streams that were deep and flowing and could sustain life (yes I like to fish) are now sun-baked algae riddled trickles. Dams are probably the most harmful thing humans do to their environment. And that's sayin' a lot. We get so much rain and snow here being relatively close to a Great Lake, water supply is never a problem (at least until a large water main breaks in the dead of winter). I don't think letting my yellow mellow is going to help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted April 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 We get so much rain and snow here being relatively close to a Great Lake, water supply is never a problem (at least until a large water main breaks in the dead of winter). I don't think letting my yellow mellow is going to help you. You probably don't have the population density for it to matter locally to you. But here in Maryland where they put up new communities and put them on well water it is a really, really big issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 We get so much rain and snow here being relatively close to a Great Lake, water supply is never a problem (at least until a large water main breaks in the dead of winter). I don't think letting my yellow mellow is going to help you. If every citizen of Pittsburgh held your views on water conservation, you would end up with a much different view of water conservation. If it came to battling for that resource, your little municipality would stand no chance. Just ask all those towns in the Catskills. On another note, lawns have to be up their in terms of negative environmental impact. Between the chemicals (I know, I know, every lawn guy will tell you how safe they are,… yeah, right) and the two stroke engines that are always kept up to run at peak performance, and the extra water usage, lawns are just awful. I know we all want to believe we are all living in tiny English Manors, thumbing our noses at that pesky over-taxing king, but I think we'd be better off if most people kept their property more closely related to their local ecosystems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogre Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 What's the environmental harm in using as much water as you want? Where I live, it's abundant and cheap. Conserving is fine, but it's only a symbolic gesture. It all ends up in the Allegheny anyway. Water can't be destroyed. I imagine that the less water I use, the less energy will be needed to treat the water, both before and after it gets to me. That seems like pennies in savings. I suppose I would also be saving a little on gas for the hot water tank. What arguments for saving water am I missing? For me personally? I haul every drop of water my household uses every single week. I've been doing it for ten months now. The well casing on my three year old well has sunk 6 inches into the ground and is no longer covered by th cap. We can't use it. Municipal water is not available to us. I haul 400 gallons/week now which I can do in one trip. Thanks to the large truck I now drive with the huge trailer I needed. Which burns tons of gas. Now I pump water into a tank in my basement, with water I pumped from a station, that was pumped from a treatment facility that pumped it from the lake. At first I was hauling 600-700 gallons/week. Two damn trips! Thanks to mellow yellow and a few other conservation techniques we are saving 200-300 gallons a week. Why not fix it? The geologist I hired to explain things to me feels its best to haul water and see if this thing settles. I could drill another one. Is that any better? Everyone has their own opinion as to what environmental footprints are. Here I always thought those hippies didn't bath to be eco friendly. Are you telling me that they're just lazy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 There is some excellent stuff in here. Love the thoughts on lawns, SwampD. What an absolute racket lawn care is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubkev Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 There is some excellent stuff in here. Love the thoughts on lawns, SwampD. What an absolute racket lawn care is. It is a racket. But I love it. Seriously, lawn care, gardening, baseball and grilling are that which brings me joy all summer long. I need my lawn to look like a cross between Agusta National and Yankee Stadium. I freak if it's not perfect. Sadly, my footprint is probably bigger than most who have posted in this thread, combined! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 I drive a teeny, fuel efficient car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Oh, like a GCWOK. OK, I gotta ask....... What's a GCWOK? Best answer yet. We don't have kids either and won't at this point. I figure it's as good excuse as any. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 If every citizen of Pittsburgh held your views on water conservation, you would end up with a much different view of water conservation. If it came to battling for that resource, your little municipality would stand no chance. Just ask all those towns in the Catskills. Well downstate interests (flood protection for Pittsburgh, as well as electric generation) did lead to the federal government stealing Indian land in the early 1960s for construction of the Kinzua Dam. But I don't see how Shittsburgh is going to get their grubby hands on our crisp, clean, spring-fed water. They can enjoy it, however, after we discharge it and it flows down to them via the Allegheny. I would recommend they get a filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 If every citizen of Pittsburgh held your views on water conservation, you would end up with a much different view of water conservation. If it came to battling for that resource, your little municipality would stand no chance. Just ask all those towns in the Catskills. On another note, lawns have to be up their in terms of negative environmental impact. Between the chemicals (I know, I know, every lawn guy will tell you how safe they are,… yeah, right) and the two stroke engines that are always kept up to run at peak performance, and the extra water usage, lawns are just awful. I know we all want to believe we are all living in tiny English Manors, thumbing our noses at that pesky over-taxing king, but I think we'd be better off if most people kept their property more closely related to their local ecosystems. Really popular when I lived in Washington was ground cover, rather than traditional lawns. The outdoor space for a typical row house is so small, anyway. Ground cover gets trimmed a couple of times a year and you never have to water it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) I'm a stickler for recycling, both the traditional kind and the electronic kind. On campus I'll separate the plastic coffee cover from the paper cup and put them in the right bins, whereas I see a ton of people just toss the whole thing in the garbage. Yes I have an insulated coffee carrier I can use, but I forget it more than I'd care to admit. Trying to get better. I have never watered a lawn. I will never water a lawn. Hey, if it's dead, I don't have to mow it! Currently transitioning to LED bulbs, and only use lights when really necessary anyway. Keep the thermostat low in the winter, usually 66. Rechargeable batteries. What a wonderful creation. Hand wash dishes. Only use one water bottle. Things I need to do better at (and am motivated to thanks to this thread): -Brown bag lunches. I have no good reason I haven't bought a lunch tote. -Stop forgetting my coffee cup. -Less reliance on AC in the summer. I hate being uncomfortably warm. Can't sleep that way either to save my life. But I'll try. -Fewer disposable cups. No real reason to use bathroom cups as opposed to a small washable plastic cup. Edit: does anyone have any experience with battery lawn equipment? Just have a small suburban lawn, so it's not much, and I've been looking at battery mower and/or trimmer, but I'm concerned about them being super weak. Edited April 13, 2016 by TrueBlueGED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 I'm a stickler for recycling, both the traditional kind and the electronic kind. On campus I'll separate the plastic coffee cover from the paper cup and put them in the right bins, whereas I see a ton of people just toss the whole thing in the garbage. Yes I have an insulated coffee carrier I can use, but I forget it more than I'd care to admit. Trying to get better. I hardly ever see segregated recycling bins anymore. Didn't know it still was a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Hand wash dishes. We spent a few bucks on a super-efficient dishwasher (machine), and I guarantee I'd use more water if I were to wash by hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 We spent a few bucks on a super-efficient dishwasher (machine), and I guarantee I'd use more water if I were to wash by hand. I like that you clarified machine, as if we'd assume you had a cheap illegal housekeeper or something :lol: Think the water efficiency of machine vs hand varies based on how many dishes you produce? As a single person I don't produce nearly enough to actually fill a dishwasher before I need some of the dirty stuff again. I guess I could buy more tableware, but eeehhhh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 I like that you clarified machine, as if we'd assume you had a cheap illegal housekeeper or something :lol: I put that there just for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 I'm a stickler for recycling, both the traditional kind and the electronic kind. On campus I'll separate the plastic coffee cover from the paper cup and put them in the right bins, whereas I see a ton of people just toss the whole thing in the garbage. Yes I have an insulated coffee carrier I can use, but I forget it more than I'd care to admit. Trying to get better. I have never watered a lawn. I will never water a lawn. Hey, if it's dead, I don't have to mow it! Currently transitioning to LED bulbs, and only use lights when really necessary anyway. Keep the thermostat low in the winter, usually 66. Rechargeable batteries. What a wonderful creation. Hand wash dishes. Only use one water bottle. Things I need to do better at (and am motivated to thanks to this thread): -Brown bag lunches. I have no good reason I haven't bought a lunch tote. -Stop forgetting my coffee cup. -Less reliance on AC in the summer. I hate being uncomfortably warm. Can't sleep that way either to save my life. But I'll try. -Fewer disposable cups. No real reason to use bathroom cups as opposed to a small washable plastic cup. Edit: does anyone have any experience with battery lawn equipment? Just have a small suburban lawn, so it's not much, and I've been looking at battery mower and/or trimmer, but I'm concerned about them being super weak. Forget that, go straight push-reel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Think the water efficiency of machine vs hand varies based on how many dishes you produce? As a single person I don't produce nearly enough to actually fill a dishwasher before I need some of the dirty stuff again. I guess I could buy more tableware, but eeehhhh. And now you have me back to the self-hate that arose upthread when it was pointed out that I may in fact hate the earth because I'm a breeder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Forget that, go straight push-reel. Blue, as yah attornah ahm gunna advahs agehn this chere. Trust meh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BagBoy Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 I work at home so I'm down to ~5000 miles driving per year (more than half of which are bi-annual trips to Niagara peninsula). I can't sleep unless I'm cold, so 58 at night in winter, 76 at night in summer. Running AC at night costs less than running it in day time, so starting the day at 76 and then going to 80 usually means the AC won't kick back on until after lunch. I recycle everything, but I generate a lot of beer cans. I have looked into getting kegs instead, but it seems to actually cost more than the cans. I also eat beef more than I should. I think pork is roughly half as bad environmentally, and chicken only 1/4 as bad. Oh, yeah, and open those windows! If my heat is on at 64 and it gets over 64 outdoors, I open every window unless it's raining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Forget that, go straight push-reel. Blue, as yah attornah ahm gunna advahs agehn this chere. Trust meh. In PA I trust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 In PA I trust. Wimp :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 In PA I trust. Good. We're taking baby steps. Seriously you would never be happy with the way the lawn looks. And you'd never be able to revenge-mow at 7:30 the morning after the partying neighbors keep you up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 I spent 12 years helping develop hydrogen fuel cell technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) I spent 12 years helping develop hydrogen fuel cell technology. I have a question. I think we are only now beginning to get the energy out of solar panels that it took to put into them. How much energy does it take to make them compared to what we get out of them? Is it a net gain yet, unlike solar (for the moment)? Edited April 13, 2016 by SwampD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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