LastPommerFan Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 If anybody is going to be talking about needles it'd be the guy with one in his avatar! But I think we're going to be better without many moves if our draft pick is here, Reinhart steps up and we're healthy... But by "move the needle" I meant change us from a bottom dweller to at least a team that competes for a playoff spot deep into the season. Malooga - My comment about Rochester was mainly on McCabe and, to some point, Zadorov. I think Pysyk will be traded before he's sent back to Rochester, but my hope is that he's here. A large part of me likes Pysyk more than Zadorov at this point. I love Zadorov, but he's been HORRIBLE at points. I can't say the same about Pysyk. Zadorov has had some pretty high highs, but the lows have been somewhat frequent and extreme. If he's the centerpiece of a O'Reilly deal then I'm fine with it. Not saying we SHOULD trade him, but I won't be heartbroken. Yeah, I think the things that moves the needle to solidly in the playoff hunt will be Samson and McEichel no longer being rookies, and either (a) a great goalie and/or (b) a head coach who doesn't exclusively rely on the goalie to get wins. In otherwords, if they fire Nolan, we'll be in the playoffs in 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 "Move the needle" is pretty relative since on our case it can be moved a lot and still result in a poor record. If we finish last and Murray can acquire a legit LHD and RW, 25 points is very much in play...but a 25 point improvement, while huge, still lands us in the bottom 8ish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabresith Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 If by some chance we get Mike Babcock, how much does your line up change? Was just wondering your guys opinion knowing how Babcock likes for the kids to develop in the minors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) We are in a different situation than Pittsburgh was in Crosby's rookie year because we have 2 young centers ready to break into the NHL in the same season. I have no problem starting a stud rookie center on the top line but should we start both at center in the top 6? Start one at right wing? Should one of them be relegated to the 3rd line to avoid breaking in 2 rookies into the top 6 simultaneously? I'm not debating. I'm just answering your question. edit- I see I quoted the wrong post when I answered that. Wasn't intended to be a reply to you. Carry on. Edited March 29, 2015 by weave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 If by some chance we get Mike Babcock, how much does your line up change? Was just wondering your guys opinion knowing how Babcock likes for the kids to develop in the minors. Not much. Reinhart and McEichel are the only young guys that would have not "paid their dues" in most lineups that people have been posting, and Babcock has never had rookies as talented as them. He won't keep them down just because that's how Detroit has handled their late first rounders for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabresith Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 Not much. Reinhart and McEichel are the only young guys that would have not "paid their dues" in most lineups that people have been posting, and Babcock has never had rookies as talented as them. He won't keep them down just because that's how Detroit has handled their late first rounders for years. Fair point on Detroit's picks being late in the first round. Meaning those picks probably needed more time for development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) Grigorenko and a late 1st yes, or McCabe and a late 1st. to be honest i don't know if i want RoR when you already got Zemgus. It will take more to get ROR. And I've seen that reasoning around a lot. "Why get ROR when we have the next ROR in Zemgus?" I don't agree at all. For me, the upside of acquiring ROR stems from the need of good possession/defensively sound top 6 players to protect our young talented centers. The more of those guys you have, the better it makes the rest of your roster. Yes please to ROR and Zemgus. Although the price to acquire him may be too much, but somehow I don't think it'll be too much to GMTM Edited March 30, 2015 by qwksndmonster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd1001 Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Grigorenko and a late 1st yes, or McCabe and a late 1st. to be honest i don't know if i want RoR when you already got Zemgus. I agree with you. For some reason I was never as big of a fan of ORielly as others are on here. Is he a very good player? Yes...but to me you don't trade for him and give up a lot of assets AND give him an very high salary unless he is the KIND of player you are missing. Don't trade for him just because you think he is good..make sure he fills a hole you have. I'd rather wait and see who develops or see if a more 'top flight' scorer is available....rather than trade for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 I agree with you. For some reason I was never as big of a fan of ORielly as others are on here. Is he a very good player? Yes...but to me you don't trade for him and give up a lot of assets AND give him an very high salary unless he is the KIND of player you are missing. Don't trade for him just because you think he is good..make sure he fills a hole you have. I'd rather wait and see who develops or see if a more 'top flight' scorer is available....rather than trade for him. I agree. If O'Reilly was RW, I would be more inclined or if I knew he didn't want 7mil + in his next contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norcal Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 I don't think Maloogas speculation about GMTM making offers for Toffoli and Martin Jones is too far fetched. Travis Yost was on with Schopp and the Bulldog not too long ago and suggested that it could happen and would likely cripple the Kings ability to match because of their salary cap situation. That would significantly upgrade the top 6 and goaltending and speed up the rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 I agree with you. For some reason I was never as big of a fan of ORielly as others are on here. Is he a very good player? Yes...but to me you don't trade for him and give up a lot of assets AND give him an very high salary unless he is the KIND of player you are missing. Don't trade for him just because you think he is good..make sure he fills a hole you have. I'd rather wait and see who develops or see if a more 'top flight' scorer is available....rather than trade for him. In what way does ROR not fill a hole? We need quality players up and down the lineup, especially defensively responsible ones like ROR, who can provide stability for our young talent to flourish. A guy who puts up 50-60 points consistently and shuts down opposing offense is definitely worth 7 million of cap space + a hefty trade package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norcal Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 If GMTM turns around and deals Grigorenko (Roy still believes in him and spoke well of him a xouple days ago) and a D-man/late 1st for O'Reilly I could see a possible lineup looking something like this: Kane McDavid/Eichel Toffoli Moulson Reinhart Ennis Girgensons O'Reilly Foligno/Gionta Deslaurier Larsson Gionta/Hodgson McCormick/Hodgson Bogosian Gorges Ristolainen Zadorov/McCabe Pysyk Weber Ruhwedel Jones Johnson I'm not sure there's a spot for Gionta or Hodgson unless they fill in on the 3rd or 4th line which isn't really an ideal spot for Gionta? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 ppl still view Zemgus as a 3rd line player... :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 ppl still view Zemgus as a 3rd line player... :lol: You used "ppl" in a sentence. I don't care if you're on your phone in the middle of a BJ, I want to inflict bodily injury on you :angry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 I'm completely okay with offer sheeting Toffoli. He's a very good talent. But I don't think it will matter. To make it worth our while it'll have to be an amount that would force us to give LA our 2016 first. That's not that bad because Toffoli is that good, but I do not see Murray going there. Anything less than that and LA matches without much issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 I'm completely okay with offer sheeting Toffoli. He's a very good talent. But I don't think it will matter. To make it worth our while it'll have to be an amount that would force us to give LA our 2016 first. That's not that bad because Toffoli is that good, but I do not see Murray going there. Anything less than that and LA matches without much issue. If we were poised to threaten for a playoff spot I'd be ok with giving up our 2016 1st, but that's likely not the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norcal Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 ppl still view Zemgus as a 3rd line player... :lol:I love Zemgus, just see him as an important part of shutting down other teams top lines and he and O'Reilly would click well together offensively as well. I'm not saying it's all he can do but it might be his best fit on this team? This team being the one I projected with a solid top 6 already and a need for a shutdown line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#freejame Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) ppl still view Zemgus as a 3rd line player... :lol: 3rd line in the sense that he'll match up against the opposition's top line. Isn't that where you want your two way forwards? That's also why I'm in favor of ROR, he's another two way guy, has a much higher FO% than Zemgus, and has great possession numbers. You should want your third line defensively sound so your players with higher offensive talent get better match ups. Not to mention the fact that I'd rather not have someone play center who only wins 45% of the draws. Edited March 30, 2015 by IrwinNelson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 If we were poised to threaten for a playoff spot I'd be ok with giving up our 2016 1st, but that's likely not the case. I would want to see some other moves first (which would be likely since offer sheets take time anyways). If Murray is serious about landing a legitimate goalie tandem and makes some moves elsewhere then I'll be more open to it. At that point I'd be confident that we'll be sitting anywhere from 10 to out of the lottery which is worth giving up for Toffoli. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 I would want to see some other moves first (which would be likely since offer sheets take time anyways). If Murray is serious about landing a legitimate goalie tandem and makes some moves elsewhere then I'll be more open to it. At that point I'd be confident that we'll be sitting anywhere from 10 to out of the lottery which is worth giving up for Toffoli. Well, yeah. If he makes enough moves that adding Toffoli makes threatening for a playoff spot realistic, pull the trigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 I don't think Maloogas speculation about GMTM making offers for Toffoli and Martin Jones is too far fetched. Travis Yost was on with Schopp and the Bulldog not too long ago and suggested that it could happen and would likely cripple the Kings ability to match because of their salary cap situation. That would significantly upgrade the top 6 and goaltending and speed up the rebuild. Yost's point was that LA would match on Tofoli but would because if that have to pass on Jones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) Okay, I've submitted this thought before, and the answers I have received, although well-explained, have not satisfied (sorry, TBPhD). Let's take this possible line-up: Kane McEichel Ennis Moulson Girgensons ROR Foligno Reinhart Gionta Deslauriers Larsson McCormick Riso Georges Bogo Pysyk Weber (more than likely) Zadarov Goalie....mmm someone okay. How can anyone look at the roster and expect only a modest increase in position at the end of next season? Yes, I am aware that a 25 point increase from this season would be marvelous, but that works out to be in the upper 20's standings-wise. But, I look at that roster and I think that if all other things are stable (coaching, administration, injuries), a roster with that kind of talent should be able to get it together by Christmas, no? And from there, they should be able to compete for a wildcard slot their first year together, no? I mean, if they can't, then I might want to question the assembled talent. Edited March 30, 2015 by SiZzlEmIsTEr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Okay, I've submitted this thought before, and the answers I have received, although well-explained, have not satisfied (sorry, TBPhD). Let's take this possible line-up: Kane McEichel Ennis Moulson Girgensons ROR Foligno Reinhart Gionta Deslauriers Larsson McCormick Riso Georges Bogo Pysyk Weber (more than likely) Zadarov Goalie....mmm someone okay. How can anyone look at the roster and expect only a modest increase in position at the end of next season? Yes, I am aware that a 25 point increase from this season would be marvelous, but that works out to be in the upper 20's standings-wise. But, I look at that roster and I think that if all other things are stable (coaching, administration, injuries), a roster with that kind of talent should be able to get it together by Christmas, no? And from there, they should be able to compete for a wildcard slot their first year together, no? I mean, if they can't, then I might want to question the assembled talent. Agreed. I'm expecting a jump of at minimum 25 points but am hopeful of 35 and a return to fun good ol hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calti Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Looking at the box score of his first game it looks like he centered the second line of John LeClair and Mark Recchi. Believe line one was Ziggy Palffy, Mario Lemieux and Ryan Malone. By his second game Crosby's line was playing between 30-60 seconds less than the first line. Then Lemieux got hurt and Sid was the first-line center. Chances are McEichel jumps on the first line here because we don't have a Lemiuex. and Lemieux was 100yrs old..so even if he didn't get hurt woulda still been Crosby at #1 that yr at some point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Okay, I've submitted this thought before, and the answers I have received, although well-explained, have not satisfied (sorry, TBPhD). Let's take this possible line-up: Kane McEichel Ennis Moulson Girgensons ROR Foligno Reinhart Gionta Deslauriers Larsson McCormick Riso Georges Bogo Pysyk Weber (more than likely) Zadarov Goalie....mmm someone okay. How can anyone look at the roster and expect only a modest increase in position at the end of next season? Yes, I am aware that a 25 point increase from this season would be marvelous, but that works out to be in the upper 20's standings-wise. But, I look at that roster and I think that if all other things are stable (coaching, administration, injuries), a roster with that kind of talent should be able to get it together by Christmas, no? And from there, they should be able to compete for a wildcard slot their first year together, no? I mean, if they can't, then I might want to question the assembled talent. I think they could challenge for a playoff spot. Three defencemen and all four centres would need probably to play like they are three years older than they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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