dudacek Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 @ LGR I think you missed my point on the McDavid reference. (Maybe a better way of putting this is "Did you really just compare Nikita Zadorov to Chris Pronger?" :P ) What I am trying to say is you draft players, not sets of numbers. Analytics are there as reference points, not rules. Of course you pick McDavid, even if you already have Sid and Geno. But the same thinking applies to Ekblad. If you believe Ekblad is clearly the superior player, you pick him, regardless of need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 LGR, we all want a star centre, but at the draft you cant take need over ability. I haven't seen or read enough to pass any sort of judgment on Reinhart versus Ekblad, not even the scouts have. But I do not want to take Daigle and leave Pronger sitting at the table because I have McKee and Zhitnik already in the system. Maybe we get a shot at McDavid next year. Are you going to avoid him because you already have Hodgson, Grigorenko and Reinhart? Amen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 @ LGR I think you missed my point on the McDavid reference. (Maybe a better way of putting this is "Did you really just compare Nikita Zadorov to Chris Pronger?" :P ) What I am trying to say is you draft players, not sets of numbers. Analytics are there as reference points, not rules. Of course you pick McDavid, even if you already have Sid and Geno. But the same thinking applies to Ekblad. If you believe Ekblad is clearly the superior player, you pick him, regardless of need. But I am arguing that Forwards are better 1st overalls than defenders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) But I am arguing that Forwards are better 1st overalls than defenders Generally speaking they are. And following that model exclusively, you would have taken Daigle over Pronger. Edited November 1, 2013 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Generally speaking they are. And following that model exclusively, you would have taken Daigle over Pronger. And again you have 1 example in 20 years of draft history. Also you are using a future hall of fame defender. If Ekblad is good, which looking at his limited video and numbers is a question mark than he has to be at least an entire level above Reinhart for me to want him. aka if Reinhart is a level 8 out of 10, 10 being Stamkos, Crosby, and Ekblad is a 9 I take reinhart all day every day. Reinhart is exactly what this team needs. We need to stop chasing potential and start drafting actual skill, which we did in the last couple of drafts. BTW Ekblad projects more to Karlsson than Pronger. Reinhart projects to Kopitar, both of which are good players but I would rather have Kopitar on my team over Karlsson. I have never been so happy to be absolutely against this board than I am now. Yakupov I am against Ekblad I am against Miller is worthless now I am against I refuse to buckle on this. We should have tanked last season like I wanted us to and this rebuild would be light years ahead right now but hindsight is 20/20 and that being said I don't want us to get a 1st overall and have it be Eric Johnson because we think it could be Chris Pronger but we pass on Anze Kopitar just to make sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 If you think I have been saying the Sabres should take Ekblad, one of us is doing a terrible job of communicating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 If you think I have been saying the Sabres should take Ekblad, one of us is doing a terrible job of communicating. I don't. I think what you are saying is that if Ekblad is ranked as a higher talent than Reinhart we should take Ekblad. Which I am saying only works if there is a significant talent gap. Otherwise it is wiser to take Reinhart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 I don't. I think what you are saying is that if Ekblad is ranked as a higher talent than Reinhart we should take Ekblad. Which I am saying only works if there is a significant talent gap. Otherwise it is wiser to take Reinhart. Ummm...if Ekblad turns into the consensus number 1 I'm on the phone with teams picking 2 & 3 seeing what they offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 But I am arguing that Forwards are better 1st overalls than defenders The kids in the draft are different every year. This idea is asinine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Ummm...if Ekblad turns into the consensus number 1 I'm on the phone with teams picking 2 & 3 seeing what they offer. I would be too but I am not sure Darcy could handle that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 I was wondering how long it would take him to jump up to the #1 slot. I expect anyone who gets exceptional player status from the OHL to wind up as the top pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) I would be pissed if we took Ekblad. Just being honest. You don't draft for need in the NHL, but you have to consider it when you're likely picking player that will be playing immediately. There are also twice as many forward spots in the NHL than there are dmen. So if you take a forward, you can always move them around some. We took two dmen last year when we already had a pretty good stock of them. We now have Risto, Zadorov, Pysyk, McCabe, Ruhwedel, McNabb, Myers. All legitimate NHL defense prospects/players under the age of 24. If it's close you take the forward. If Ekblad separates (which I doubt) then you see if the team at 2 will throw you something. Even if it's just an extra 3rd rounder. Edited November 1, 2013 by DStebb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 I would be pissed if we took Ekblad. Just being honest. You don't draft for need in the NHL, but you have to consider it when you're likely picking player that will be playing immediately. There are also twice as many forward spots in the NHL than there are dmen. So if you take a forward, you can always move them around some. We took two dmen last year when we already had a pretty good stock of them. We now have Risto, Zadorov, Pysyk, McCabe, Ruhwedel, McNabb, Myers. All legitimate NHL defense prospects/players under the age of 24. If it's close you take the forward. If Ekblad separates (which I doubt) then you see if the team at 2 will throw you something. Even if it's just an extra 3rd rounder. Yes exactly. If Ekblad is a hair better than Reinhart you take Reinhart. If Ekblad is the consensus #1 you trade down and take an extra pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Yes exactly. If Ekblad is a hair better than Reinhart you take Reinhart. If Ekblad is the consensus #1 you trade down and take an extra pick. And I would honestly want them to take Reinhart number 1 anyways just because I think there's a big thing about confidence. Take a guy number one and his confidence sky rockets. He won't lose a lot of confidence if he's not the number one pick, but I still think there is something there to be considered. Franchises aren't build on defense. Not in the NHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 But I am arguing that Forwards are better 1st overalls than defenders I think you are getting the logic backwards. It isn't that forwards are better 1st overalls. It is that there are more forwards worthy of 1st overal than D men. And looking at draft history that appears to be true. But it doesn't change the idea that you pick the best player. Picking need over player at #1 is silly if that need is not a #1 worthy player. The solution is simple. If you are bound and detemrined to pick forward but a D man is the consesnus #1 you trade the pick and get into a position where your need matches the draft slot. Bonus is of course that you add assets in the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 And I would honestly want them to take Reinhart number 1 anyways just because I think there's a big thing about confidence. Take a guy number one and his confidence sky rockets. He won't lose a lot of confidence if he's not the number one pick, but I still think there is something there to be considered. Franchises aren't build on defense. Not in the NHL. Maybe, or there is a s*it load of pressure being the number one pick. Possibly a #2 pick can kind of develop under the radar whereas the 'number one draft pick' status can hurt a prospects development. Not sure which argument is more sound but hey it's a Friday afternoon and I'm bored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Maybe, or there is a s*it load of pressure being the number one pick. Possibly a #2 pick can kind of develop under the radar whereas the 'number one draft pick' status can hurt a prospects development. Not sure which argument is more sound but hey it's a Friday afternoon and I'm bored. Meh. It hasn't hindered first picks in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Meh. It hasn't hindered first picks in the past. Nor is there proof that it provides added confidence to take them to a higher level.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) Nor is there proof that it provides added confidence to take them to a higher level.... Nope. That's why I qualified it by saying "I think..." If you look at the recent history of first and second picks you pretty much can't miss there. Edited November 1, 2013 by DStebb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted November 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 2014 USA prospect tournament coming up, Nov 4-10 might be worth keeping an eye on. http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=687276 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 (edited) Dal colle with another great night for the gens scoring a goal and adding an assist. He's now sitting at 10 goals and 15 assists through 16 games. He's looking like a great prospect. Edited November 3, 2013 by Derrico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 Dal colle with another great night for the gens scoring a goal and adding an assist. He's now sitting at 10 goals and 15 assists through 16 games. He's looking like a great prospect. I'd love to grab Reinhart and Dal Colle. That would help push this rebuild along. We can't make the mistake that Edmonton did which is drafting all skill with almost no grit and a serious lack of swagger and leadership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 I'd love to grab Reinhart and Dal Colle. That would help push this rebuild along. We can't make the mistake that Edmonton did which is drafting all skill with almost no grit and a serious lack of swagger and leadership. I'd be interested in seeing the Sabres move up with that second 1st round pick (from NYI). Some of the guys who should be available in the teens are OK, but I'd love to get 2 players in the top ten. I also hope the focus of our trades the rest of this year is prospects (already drafted guys) or 2015 picks. We've probably got enough picks for 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 I'd love to grab Reinhart and Dal Colle. That would help push this rebuild along. We can't make the mistake that Edmonton did which is drafting all skill with almost no grit and a serious lack of swagger and leadership. Or defencemen #oilerstankingforekblad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 I'd love to grab Reinhart and Dal Colle. That would help push this rebuild along. We can't make the mistake that Edmonton did which is drafting all skill with almost no grit and a serious lack of swagger and leadership. Would be an incredible hull. Now sure if we could pull it off, but who knows. We have the assets to move up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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