Neo Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Dead Souls, Nikolai Gogol Ulysses, James Joyce (in it for a year; every sentence is an adventure) Last finished ... Anna Karenina, Leo Tolstoy (maybe the best novel I've ever read) You folks are all interesting reads. The multi quote's confusing me .. Hayak ... niiiice ... The Art of War ... I have The Odyssey .... assignment or pleasure or both? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Dead Souls, Nikolai Gogol Ulysses, James Joyce (in it for a year; every sentence is an adventure) Last finished ... Anna Karenina, Leo Tolstoy (maybe the best novel I've ever read) You folks are all interesting reads. The multi quote's confusing me .. Hayak ... niiiice ... The Art of War ... I have The Odyssey .... assignment or pleasure or both? Ulysses is one of the best novels I ever have experienced. (Because you don't read that one, you experience it.) I hope you've got either a companion (like Ulysses Annotated) or a professor with you. (Then again, it was 1993 when I read it, and there weren't online sources.) Stately, plump Buck Mulligan... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) I have notes and the web. It is an experience. Every paragraph drives me to research. I was hooked at: INELUCTABLE MODALITY OF THE VISIBLE: AT LEAST THAT IF NO MORE, thought through my eyes. Signatures of all things I am here to read, seaspawn and seawrack, the nearing tide, that rusty boot. Snotgreen, bluesilver, rust: coloured signs. Limits of the diaphane. But he adds: in bodies. Then he was aware of them bodies before of them coloured. How? By knocking his sconce against them, sure. Go easy. Bald he was and a millionaire, maestro di color che sanno. Limit of the diaphane in. Why in? Diaphane, adiaphane. If you can put your five fingers through it, it is a gate, if not a door. Shut your eyes and see. Stephen closed his eyes to hear his boots crush crackling wrack and shells. You are walking through it howsomever. I am, a stride at a time. A very short space of time through very short times of space. Five, six: the nacheinander. Exactly: and that is the ineluctable modality of the audible. Open your eyes. No. Jesus! If I fell over a cliff that beetles o'er his base, fell through the nebeneinander ineluctably. I am getting on nicely in the dark. My ash sword hangs at my side. Tap with it: they do. My two feet in his boots are at the end of his legs, nebeneinander. Sounds solid: made by the mallet of Los Demiurgos. Am I walking into eternity along Sandymount strand? Crush, crack, crick, crick. Wild sea money. Dominie Deasy kens them a'. That passage cost me a week. Edited February 17, 2012 by Neo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 I hope you didn't type all of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chileanseabass Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 I have a habit of starting many books and never finshing them, but a few I've recently read and recommend... "The Game" by Ken Dryden... probably one of the best hockey books I've read "The Bullpen Gospels" by Dirk Hayhurst... easily one of the best sports books I've read. He has a new one coming out that I can't wait to read. "A Nation of Enemies: Chile Under Pinochet" by Constable & Valenzuela... fascinating look at the military coup in Chile that brought Pinochet to power, which was aided by the U.S., and the 17 years he ruled Chile with an iron fist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Currently reading this thread, duh. A couple of minutes ago, reading the label on my beer. I'll probably be reading either 'The E Myth Revisited' or 'The Hockey Goalie's Complete Guide' this weekend. Depends if I feel like doing work or reading for pleasure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Ulysses and Finnegan's Wake ultimately have no meaning. Joyce is just using highly stylized word-smything to put pedestrian ideas into your brain. I was so disappointed when I realized that. Of course, it was during my second expedition into Ulysses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FogBat Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 In fiction I have been reading the novels of John Ringo. Most are military sci-fi. I have read most of the Posleen War series, the Council War series, the Troy Rising series and also The Last Centurion. Tomorrow I will probably start Elmer Kelton's The Time it Never Rained. In nonfiction I always have several books going. I just finished a monograph by Richard Epstein, Why Progressive Institutions are Unsustainable. I am about half way through Law Legislation and Liberty, Volume 2 by Friedrich A. Hayek. I am also reading a book about the Atkins diet. (BTW my wife and I started the diet a bit more than 2 weeks ago and have both lost some weight.) I am also reading The Guns of August by Barbara W. Tuckman. Next up will be some ecomonics, I have not decided but it is between The Theory of the Leisure Class by Thorstein Veblen and Man, Economy, and State by Murray N. Rothbard. I have about 3 dozen books in the queue after that. I really like your economics selections. Granted, I have never read them, but I am familiar with what Hayek and Rothbard advocated. What's sad is that their Austrian economics ideas have been practically ignored by the Keynesian elites these days, and it's no wonder we don't have a sound money system. As an aside, what's really neat is that the Ludwig von Mises Institute created an award that bears Rothbard's namesake, and one of the people who received this reward was none other than Gary North (who, while largely ignored by the MSM, talks waaaaaaay more sense in one paragraph than any of the Keynesians over at CNBC and the Wall Street Journal in an entire edition). Chapters and verses numbering began with the Franciscan Friars in Paris in the 13th century. Chiefly, Matthew of Aquasparta. There's more than meets the eye. From Wikipedia: The first person to divide New Testament chapters into verses was Italian Dominican biblical scholar Santi Pagnini (1470–1541), but his system was never widely adopted.[3] Robert Estienne created an alternate numbering in his 1551 edition of the Greek New Testament [4] which was also used in his 1553 publication of the Bible in French. Estienne's system of division was widely adopted, and it is this system which is found in almost all modern bibles. The first English New Testament to use the verse divisions was a 1557 translation by William Whittingham (c. 1524-1579). The first Bible in English to use both chapters and verses was the Geneva Bible published shortly afterwards in 1560. These verse divisions soon gained acceptance as a standard way to notate verses, and have since been used in nearly all English Bibles and the vast majority of those in other languages. As for Matthew of Aquasparta's Wikipedia entry, I found nothing saying that he began the whole chapter and verse division of organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Great thread. 1.) Madness Visible by Janine di Giovanni. She is a BBC correspondent. The book recounts her work on assignment during the Balkan wars of the 1990's ... primarily covers the siege of Sarajevo, the war in Bosnia and the war in Kosovo. It also goes into detail of the politics surrounding the wars and the key figures. 2.) Family of Secrets by Russ Baker. It recounts the story of the political situation, behind the scenes, of the 50 years leading up to GWB. It's a very interesting look at the hidden history of the Bush family dynasty and the US invisible government. Those sound very interesting. I would like to do more reading on politics. I just got a book in the mail today: The Plots Against the President by Sally Denton. New book about FDR and groups that tried to overthrow his presidency because of his social and economic programs. The first book I mentioned is not for the faint of heart, not that I think that you are. It also contains very graffic descriptions from torture and rape victims. Re-reading Stranger in a Strange Land. With my second cat dying the other day I needed me some grok. Sorry for your loss. I know how difficult it is to deal with the passing of a good friend / family member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Unless I'm mistaken, the setup between Scripture and the Qu'ran is completely different. Granted, the whole idea of inserting chapters and verses in Scripture was something that was done during the period of the Protestant Reformation. However, IIRC, Suras were set up from the get go. I just don't know when the separating ayat were done. (I had to read the Qu'ran for a seminary class on Introduction to Islam.) d4rk, I will get to answering your question hopefully within the next day or two. However, Eric in Akron has definitely given you some very helpful tools. You are correct the setups of the two scriptures are different. They connot be read "side by side" and directly compared. Although both are divided into chapters and verses, or sura and ayat. Muslims believe in both scriptures and the Hebrew scripture as well, as devine revelation from God. Don't take this the wrong way, but we believe that God revealed the Qur'an to Muhammad (PBUH) after some unscrupulous men made changes to the originally revealed Christian and Hebrew scriptures. We also believe that The Qur'an is laid out word for word as revealed to Muhammad (PBUH) and is divided into the sura and ayat by God. Muhammad (PBUH) decided the ordering of the suras. We also believe that nothing has been changed in The Qur'an since its revealing, as God reveals that He will protect it's content. If one reads both the stories are the same. The Qur'an was revealed in the language of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), which was Classical Arabic and that language is not spoken any longer in any of the Arab countries. Something is lost in any translated version of the Qur'an. That is why many Muslims strive to learn enough of the original language to read and understand the Qur'an. A major problem in Islam is the fact that, like any scripture, the Qur'an is open to interpretation. In my opinion that is when many Muslims drift away from the true teachings of Islam, as interpretations are based on many things, such as culture and tradition. Over time these have become viewed as part of the faith by many. If you are interested. IMHO the best English transliteration of the Qur'an is by Abdullah Yusuf Ali. It is widely available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FogBat Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 You are correct the setups of the two scriptures are different. They connot be read "side by side" and directly compared. Although both are divided into chapters and verses, or sura and ayat. Muslims believe in both scriptures and the Hebrew scripture as well, as devine revelation from God. Don't take this the wrong way, but we believe that God revealed the Qur'an to Muhammad (PBUH) after some unscrupulous men made changes to the originally revealed Christian and Hebrew scriptures. We also believe that The Qur'an is laid out word for word as revealed to Muhammad (PBUH) and is divided into the sura and ayat by God. Muhammad (PBUH) decided the ordering of the suras. We also believe that nothing has been changed in The Qur'an since its revealing, as God reveals that He will protect it's content. If one reads both the stories are the same. The Qur'an was revealed in the language of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), which was Classical Arabic and that language is not spoken any longer in any of the Arab countries. Something is lost in any translated version of the Qur'an. That is why many Muslims strive to learn enough of the original language to read and understand the Qur'an. A major problem in Islam is the fact that, like any scripture, the Qur'an is open to interpretation. In my opinion that is when many Muslims drift away from the true teachings of Islam, as interpretations are based on many things, such as culture and tradition. Over time these have become viewed as part of the faith by many. If you are interested. IMHO the best English transliteration of the Qur'an is by Abdullah Yusuf Ali. It is widely available. In case some of you don't know what he means by PBUH, he's saying "Peace Be Upon Him". I am curious about one thing: Did Muhammad have proof that the Scriptures of the Bible were intentionally distorted? If so, how did he come across that? I know that it could be said that this was revealed to him, but did he actually sit down and do the actual scholarship to show this? (As an aside, IIRC, this is exactly the same accusation that Joseph Smith, Jr. leveled against the Bible when he was in the process of writing The Book of Mormon, and I have not seen any evidence that Smith possessed the "ivory tower scholar" superior scholastic abilities of someone like Daniel Wallace, RC Sproul, or even Augustine.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) I have notes and the web. It is an experience. Every paragraph drives me to research. I was hooked at: That passage cost me a week. i've read that book three times in my life. it provides more insight into the human condition than any other thing i have ever read, or, frankly, experienced. Ulysses and Finnegan's Wake ultimately have no meaning. Joyce is just using highly stylized word-smything to put pedestrian ideas into your brain. I was so disappointed when I realized that. Of course, it was during my second expedition into Ulysses. yes, and it was mozart who merely used highly stylized and overly ornamental compositions as a means of planting facile emotions in the listener's mind. seriously. gimme a break. take issue with the work being needlessly impenetrable, but it's rubbish to say that it's a pointless exercise in linguistic ######. as for finnegan's wake, i have tried to get through it several times, each time without any real success. i think that joyce took matters too far with that piece, or at least further than i am capable of going (or willing to go, anyway). EDIT: so, "ma$turbation" gets caught by the filter? huh. Edited February 17, 2012 by That Aud Smell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FogBat Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 I have not. The book I read prior was Shooter, and it was about a marine sniper. Both of those authors are very high on themselves, but to be in the profession they are in, confidence is a part of what keeps you alive, so it's to be expected. I hadn't thought of it that way, but that makes sense. Perhaps those men ought to pay a visit to One SHK III Plaza to instill in them some confidence and discipline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mphs mike Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 I reread Zen last summer - a wonderful read Currently reading The Ice Balloon by S.A. Andree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FogBat Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 What version are you reading? I was raised athiest but I have always wanted to read it. I just have no idea what the difference is between versions. Crosschecking, maybe you have some input as well? Excellent question! A part of the issue (I wouldn't say it's a "problem") is that languages change over time. Case in point: look at how many different words have come into the English language just in the past 30 years alone - and the fact that English is one of the most spoken languages in the world. This is something that Bible translators have to take into consideration. We don't speak the same form of English as the Brits, or even the Australians and Nigerians. The world is a far different place than it was when the King James Version was published 401 years ago. Add to that the fact that the British Empire helped to spread the English language to all the different parts of the world since that time. Thus, while there were not as many translations published between the Wycliffe Bible (which introduced the Bible into English) and the King James Version, there has been an "explosion" in English translations ever since 1881. I cannot begin to tell you how much work and effort goes into Bible translations. Translation committees need men who have a thorough knowledge (and I do mean thorough knowledge of the original languages of Hebrew and Koine Greek - since the Greek that is spoken today is not the same Greek as it was written about 2000 years ago.) At the same time, given the amount of material that has been written through various notes and commentaries that have been passed down through the centuries has been a tremendous help to these translation committees. Nevertheless, even as they continue to work on translations, some archaeological discovery keeps being made that further validates the authenticity of the Scriptures. (The Dead Sea Scrolls are an excellent case in point.) My personal preferences for Bible translations are the 1599 Geneva Bible, the New American Standard Bible (NASB), and the English Standard Version (ESV). Just about all of these follow the word-for-word format, as opposed to the thought-for-thought method. I'm going to provide a link to something that shows not only the format, but also the projected readability of each of these versions that are on the list. As an aside, I actually find the Geneva Bible to be easier to read than the King James Version. Word to the wise: stay away from The Living Bible and The Message. Both of these are paraphrased "Bibles", which means that they were written in purely idiomatic form and did not have legitimate translation nor scholarship put into them. Plus, both of them were written by one man (Kenneth Taylor and Eugene Peterson, in that order). I hope this helps. If you have any other questions, feel free to hit up either me or Eric in Akron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Forget the Sabres. I want to "book club" with you cats. Neo, on 16 February 2012 - 10:13 PM, said: I have notes and the web. It is an experience. Every paragraph drives me to research. I was hooked at: That passage cost me a week. i've read that book three times in my life. it provides more insight into the human condition than any other thing i have ever read, or, frankly, experienced. sizzlemeister, on 17 February 2012 - 01:46 AM, said: Ulysses and Finnegan's Wake ultimately have no meaning. Joyce is just using highly stylized word-smything to put pedestrian ideas into your brain. I was so disappointed when I realized that. Of course, it was during my second expedition into Ulysses. Wholehearted. I used the phrase "cost me a week." I should have added "and worth every penny." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Anyone here ever read The Art of War? Best business book ever written. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCBuffalo Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Just read the Hobit - Can be boring at times, but a great classic. Currently reading Hunger Games which is good. Yes these are not the most advanced books but very interesting and fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Anyone here ever read The Art of War? Parts, but it's a bit too dry. I think I have both a physical copy and one on my Nook. I also have George Washington's rules of etiquette on there. A couple more now that I've been thinking about it: Silent Night (http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/silent-night-stanley-weintraub/), describing the Christmas truce on the Western Front in 1914. Fascinating read. Paradox of Choice (http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/paradox-of-choice-barry-schwartz/), looking at the correlation of happiness and the abundance of choices in Western society. This one is mostly self help for me, I'm really bad at making decisions. There's also a TED talk by the author: Edited February 17, 2012 by MattPie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FogBat Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 I'm liking what I'm seeing so far in this thread in terms of diverse reading material. I think this is one of those threads that is going to have staying power and that people are going to continue to post on here from time to time just like the Songs You Can't Get Out of Your Head thread. Kudos to d4rksabre for starting this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 yes, and it was mozart who merely used highly stylized and overly ornamental compositions as a means of planting facile emotions in the listener's mind. seriously. gimme a break. take issue with the work being needlessly impenetrable, but it's rubbish to say that it's a pointless exercise in linguistic ######. as for finnegan's wake, i have tried to get through it several times, each time without any real success. i think that joyce took matters too far with that piece, or at least further than i am capable of going (or willing to go, anyway). Goodness, are you a relative of Joyce's? I would never call Ulysses "needlessly impenetrable" - it's clearly penetrable and the style isn't a function of "need", but, rather, personal choice. Joyce chose the style he wrote it in; good for him; and who is to say it's "needless"? I never called it "a pointless exercise in linguistic self-pleasuring" ( what is it with this forum and straw men?), but you must admit all of the accolades the book has received over the years suggest the book is more than the style, which it is not. That is all I am saying. If you remove style from art then there would be nothing new, fresh, and original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted February 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 CC, I appreciate your input very much. That link you provided is another nice comparison method. It seems striking to me the difference in meaning across some of those translations. The New King James reads in a completely different way than the original. I think I might have to buy two different versions. Best business book ever written. :lol: I guess, despite claims of its dryness, I'll have to read it. I'm surprised at the number of people here who have read Zen. I'm not surprised by who is participating in this thread though. ;) I think the number of posters on this forum who are well-read translates into the atmosphere that is cultivated here. I look forward to others chiming in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FogBat Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 CC, I appreciate your input very much. That link you provided is another nice comparison method. It seems striking to me the difference in meaning across some of those translations. The New King James reads in a completely different way than the original. I think I might have to buy two different versions. You could go out and buy them. Then again, you could also look here or here. There are a number of websites that have the Bible online and in various versions and languages. Plus, many of the Bibles that are being sold here in the US contain a lot of commentary notes, which can be a bit of a distraction for me when I'm just trying to read the text itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted February 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 You could go out and buy them. Then again, you could also look here or here. There are a number of websites that have the Bible online and in various versions and languages. Plus, many of the Bibles that are being sold here in the US contain a lot of commentary notes, which can be a bit of a distraction for me when I'm just trying to read the text itself. I'll probably hit up the local Goodwill or Amvets. I'm sure they have some copies that have been donated. Plus I like a book so I can highlight and sticky note, etc. If I'm going to read it, it's going to get well read. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FogBat Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 I'll probably hit up the local Goodwill or Amvets. I'm sure they have some copies that have been donated. Plus I like a book so I can highlight and sticky note, etc. If I'm going to read it, it's going to get well read. ;) :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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