GAME DISCUSSION THREAD

[Bullwinkle]

What a difference one night makes. It was the Devils minus Brodeur and Kovalchuk but they played with intensity and a sense of purpose tonight. It was nice to see Weber on the blue line. He looked pretty solid. Hopefully Vanek is starting to wake up. Good thing the next 3 games are on the road. This team needs to get some momentum before they skate at home again. Moral of the last 48 hrs: don't get too high, don't get to low. They will probably finish in 6th or 7th by the end of the year. Before tonight there was only 1 way to go and we started in that direction.

 

You thought Weber had a good game? I thought he looked totally out of place, nervous as hell. He was by far the weakest link in our defense.

 

Yes it was a reassuring win and no, I still wouldn't want Kovy in a Sabres' uniform - never did. Now Parise...in fact if I'm not wrong, we could have drafted him. Could someone check on that?

[nfreeman]

Wow.

 

I wasn't able to pay as close attention to the game last night as usual, but I take it Tallinder made a bad play or two -- I think one came on the first Vanek goal. So naturally that means the organization's decision to not sign him is vindicated -- even though Myers continues to look like he'd be back in Kelowna if this were October 2009.

 

As for Kovy, I'd give my right nut -- hi shrader! -- to have him in midnight blue and royal blue.

 

Would you have given Tallinder a 4-year, $13.5MM deal? That's what he signed for, and he rejected the Sabres' 2-year offer.

 

And would you have given Kovy 19% of the Sabres' payroll? That's what he signed for.

 

It's easy to say you want this guy or that guy, but every dollar you spend is a dollar you dont have to spend on someone else.

[X. Benedict]

You guys are killing me. You want a primma donna, not playing any defense, creating a short handed situation every time the puck enters the defensive zone because he doesn't allow himself to cross the blue line cancer on the team crippling the payroll so he can score a few high light reel goals on the team.

 

Do you guys understand hockey is a team game and he is the epitome of the opposite? There is a reason the Devils suck right now and he is one of them. I'm all for more offense but not at the expense of my teams character. Laugh if you want but that dude would kill this group of sausage grabbers. You think Roy is a bad leader, wait until this jamoke shows up and alienates everyone. He's a class A doosh bag.

 

Totally agree on Cherrychuk. To have points on some 700 or whatnot goals and still be a -80 player takes the refusal to back-check to religious levels of dedication.

 

And when I say refuse...it is clear he refuses.

 

Jaromir Jagr wasn't a happy backchecker, but he would do it.

 

Kovalchuk has one skill. Shooting.

 

Now you can design an entire team around getting that one shot off...which was the Atlanta Thrashers of the past. Or you can try to get Kovalchuk to play in all zones...which is like teaching an old dog new tricks.

 

In the early 80's Detroit tried to build a team the same way around John Ogrodnick's shot.

Ogrodnick would score heaps of goals and Detroit would lose.

 

I expect Maclean to lose this battle as Bob Hartley lost his battle in Atlanta.

If I'm Lou Lamarillo - maybe he can hire Tom Renney...who always seem to get pretty good production out of guys like Bure, Mogliny, Jagr, Nylander etc...

[PASabreFan]

Would you have given Tallinder a 4-year, $13.5MM deal? That's what he signed for, and he rejected the Sabres' 2-year offer.

 

And would you have given Kovy 19% of the Sabres' payroll? That's what he signed for.

 

It's easy to say you want this guy or that guy, but every dollar you spend is a dollar you dont have to spend on someone else.

 

Stop trying to bring the war in under budget. I forget who said that. Probably Hawkeye to Frank Burns.

 

Seriously, stop worrying about OSP's wallet.

 

Fans should want the best players. And it's very hard to argue that the approach ownership and management has taken should be written in stone.

 

Maybe Kovalchuk would be a flop. Without the requisite coaching change -- as X hints at in a very oblique way -- it's more likely than not. Still, it would be fun to watch. Maybe the fans would even cheer.

 

It's a lot easier to argue that Tallinder should have been re-signed, even for what he got, his fair market value. Sabres are something like 5-7 million under the cap. The money was, and is, there.

 

What turns you on so much about "the way we've always done things" here in the Queen City?

[darksabre]

OSPs wallet has nothing to do with the fact that there is no way the Sabres could have fit Kovy under the cap without trading half the team for picks. How, in ANY world, is that a good idea? I wouldn't take that cancer if he bought me 30 hookers and Bugatti Veyron.

[SwampD]

You guys are killing me. You want a primma donna, not playing any defense, creating a short handed situation every time the puck enters the defensive zone because he doesn't allow himself to cross the blue line cancer on the team crippling the payroll so he can score a few high light reel goals on the team.

 

Do you guys understand hockey is a team game and he is the epitome of the opposite? There is a reason the Devils suck right now and he is one of them. I'm all for more offense but not at the expense of my teams character. Laugh if you want but that dude would kill this group of sausage grabbers. You think Roy is a bad leader, wait until this jamoke shows up and alienates everyone. He's a class A doosh bag.

And yet Kovy is undefeated in games he has played against the Sabres (I don't know if this is true but I'm sure it's pretty close). You guys are killing me. You can actually justify how any star player out there would break up the magical chemistry of this Sabres team that in three years has missed the playoffs twice and had one early playoff exit.

[PASabreFan]

OSPs wallet has nothing to do with the fact that there is no way the Sabres could have fit Kovy under the cap without trading half the team for picks. How, in ANY world, is that a good idea? I wouldn't take that cancer if he bought me 30 hookers and Bugatti Veyron.

 

Kovalchuk's cap hit is six million dollars.

[jad1]

OSPs wallet has nothing to do with the fact that there is no way the Sabres could have fit Kovy under the cap without trading half the team for picks. How, in ANY world, is that a good idea? I wouldn't take that cancer if he bought me 30 hookers and Bugatti Veyron.

 

That's really the point. Kovy is Alexi Yashin Jr; all flash and no heart. It's not worth the eye-candy if you have to keep guys like Gerbe, Ennis, and McCormick in the pressbox every night.

 

It's beyond me how Jersey could justify his contract, especially after getting swept in the 1st round last season with him on the roster.

[nfreeman]

Stop trying to bring the war in under budget. I forget who said that. Probably Hawkeye to Frank Burns.

 

Seriously, stop worrying about OSP's wallet.

 

Fans should want the best players. And it's very hard to argue that the approach ownership and management has taken should be written in stone.

 

Maybe Kovalchuk would be a flop. Without the requisite coaching change -- as X hints at in a very oblique way -- it's more likely than not. Still, it would be fun to watch. Maybe the fans would even cheer.

 

It's a lot easier to argue that Tallinder should have been re-signed, even for what he got, his fair market value. Sabres are something like 5-7 million under the cap. The money was, and is, there.

 

What turns you on so much about "the way we've always done things" here in the Queen City?

Did X hint obliquely, or did you groundlessly infer?

 

The Sabres are $4.9MM under the cap. Yes, they could've spent more $$ and re-signed Tallinder. However, here's a news flash: Tallinder ain't that good of a player. So far this year, he's been quite stinky in NJ. Did you think he played well for the first 3 years of the 4-year deal he just wrapped up with the Sabres?

 

Yes, he had a very good year last year, in his contract year and being paired with Myers. It's quite a leap from there to conclude that Myers "needs" Tallinder.

 

As for worrying about TG's money: you can pretend otherwise all you like, but no owner is going to spend to the cap in Buffalo.

 

In any case, you've entirely missed (or, more likely, avoided) the point: committing to Tallinder means if and when a better defenseman (of which there are many) comes along, the Sabres can't sign him. Same goes for Kovy, albeit more so.

[SwampD]

Did X hint obliquely, or did you groundlessly infer?

Nice opening line.

The Sabres are $4.9MM under the cap. Yes, they could've spent more $$ and re-signed Tallinder. However, here's a news flash: Tallinder ain't that good of a player. So far this year, he's been quite stinky in NJ. Did you think he played well for the first 3 years of the 4-year deal he just wrapped up with the Sabres?

 

Yes, he had a very good year last year, in his contract year and being paired with Myers. It's quite a leap from there to conclude that Myers "needs" Tallinder.

Now you lost me. As has been pointed out ad nauseam with Kovy, the parts (I've been told) are greater than the sum. Isn't the inverse true then? Couldn't this be a case where the sum is greater than the parts and therefor worth it to pay Hank? They are both obviously better together.

As for worrying about TG's money: you can pretend otherwise all you like, but no owner is going to spend to the cap in Buffalo.

Then don't say the goal is to win the Cup.

In any case, you've entirely missed (or, more likely, avoided) the point: committing to Tallinder means if and when a better defenseman (of which there are many) comes along, the Sabres can't sign him. Same goes for Kovy, albeit more so.

I'm sure that as soon as anyone of value becomes available Darcy with jump right on him, because his track record truly shows this to be his MO. :wallbash:

[inkman]

I honestly feel the Kovulchuk love is near lunacy. As X pointed out, he refuses to backcheck. Assuring the opposition of several odd man rushes a game. You are just giving away scoring chances. There is a reason those in the know in hockey circles hate this guy.

 

Can you imagine how it would feel to bust your ass back checking all game making league minimum while thus dude just hangs out near the red line cashing in 25 times your paycheck?

 

Let's take a closer look at that plus minus. To borrow from X again, if he's a career minus 80 and has been on the ice for over 700 goals, how many opposition goals has he been on the ice for?

 

I'm really at a disconnect with a whole bunch of ya.

[Sterling Archer]

I'll take 10 Vaneks before I take 1 Kovalchuk.

[inkman]

You guys are killing me. You can actually justify how any star player out there would break up the magical chemistry of this Sabres team that in three years has missed the playoffs twice and had one early playoff exit.

I wouldn't mind any OTHER star player coming to Buffalo, just not this loser.

[SwampD]

I honestly feel the Kovulchuk love is near lunacy. As X pointed out, he refuses to backcheck. Assuring the opposition of several odd man rushes a game. You are just giving away scoring chances. There is a reason those in the know in hockey circles hate this guy.

 

Can you imagine how it would feel to bust your ass back checking all game making league minimum while thus dude just hangs out near the red line cashing in 25 times your paycheck?

 

Let's take a closer look at that plus minus. To borrow from X again, if he's a career minus 80 and has been on the ice for over 700 goals, how many opposition goals has he been on the ice for?

 

I'm really at a disconnect with a whole bunch of ya.

I'm sure your numbers are hyperbole, cuz they're a little off, but the fact that he played on a crappy Atlanta team for eight years could have something to do with that.

[Sterling Archer]

Kovalchuk is the hyperbole of everything Don Cherry says about Russian players. He's Max with a better skill set.

[PASabreFan]

Did X hint obliquely, or did you groundlessly infer?

 

The Sabres are $4.9MM under the cap. Yes, they could've spent more $ and re-signed Tallinder. However, here's a news flash: Tallinder ain't that good of a player. So far this year, he's been quite stinky in NJ. Did you think he played well for the first 3 years of the 4-year deal he just wrapped up with the Sabres?

 

Yes, he had a very good year last year, in his contract year and being paired with Myers. It's quite a leap from there to conclude that Myers "needs" Tallinder.

 

As for worrying about TG's money: you can pretend otherwise all you like, but no owner is going to spend to the cap in Buffalo.

 

In any case, you've entirely missed (or, more likely, avoided) the point: committing to Tallinder means if and when a better defenseman (of which there are many) comes along, the Sabres can't sign him. Same goes for Kovy, albeit more so.

 

Golisano has spent to the cap.

 

Shooting fish in a barrel is fun, then eventually gets boring.

 

I read X's point to be that there are coaches out there who could be a good fit for Kovalchuk. I would assume X doesn't think Ruff is one of those coaches. Hence, if the Sabres had acquired Kovalchuk, I would guess that X would have thought the Sabres needed a new coach. Like I said, oblique.

[X. Benedict]

I'm sure your numbers are hyperbole, cuz they're a little off, but the fact that he played on a crappy Atlanta team for eight years could have something to do with that.

 

Actually...his powerplay numbers actually inflate the points vs. plus/minus comparison.

 

But it is a fair point...those were some bad teams.

 

Here's what I like about Kovalchuk: His shot.

Here's what I dislike about Kovy: every other part of his game.

 

That's my bias. I don't like him.

 

And I take pleasure that Lou Lamirello has gone against his every instinct and tried to fit his square peg into their round hole system.

 

The first player I would take off of the Devils team/ hands down/ regardless of money is Zack Parise.

 

That kid busts his ass just about every second he is on the ice.

[Two or less]

Nice opening line.

 

Now you lost me. As has been pointed out ad nauseam with Kovy, the parts (I've been told) are greater than the sum. Isn't the inverse true then? Couldn't this be a case where the sum is greater than the parts and therefor worth it to pay Hank? They are both obviously better together.

 

Then don't say the goal is to win the Cup.

 

I'm sure that as soon as anyone of value becomes available Darcy with jump right on him, because his track record truly shows this to be his MO. :wallbash:

 

This doesn't make much sense. Not all teams that spend to the cap can compete for the Cup. And not all teams that don't spend to the cap are terrible teams. And, the Sabres have had one of the higher payrolls in the league last few years, just not this year. This team needs a lot of help, no hiding from that, but that comment was garbage.

[X. Benedict]

Golisano has spent to the cap.

 

Shooting fish in a barrel is fun, then eventually gets boring.

 

I read X's point to be that there are coaches out there who could be a good fit for Kovalchuk. I would assume X doesn't think Ruff is one of those coaches. Hence, if the Sabres had acquired Kovalchuk, I would guess that X would have thought the Sabres needed a new coach. Like I said, oblique.

 

 

For what its worth, I don't see Kolulchuk being much in favor on a Ruff team.

I don't think Ruff is one of those coaches. No. But at least I think Ruff would have told you why he scratched him. :)

 

Anyway....The Devils have 14.9 more years to see this play out.

[nfreeman]

Now you lost me. As has been pointed out ad nauseam with Kovy, the parts (I've been told) are greater than the sum. Isn't the inverse true then? Couldn't this be a case where the sum is greater than the parts and therefor worth it to pay Hank? They are both obviously better together.

 

Then don't say the goal is to win the Cup.

I'm sure that as soon as anyone of value becomes available Darcy with jump right on him, because his track record truly shows this to be his MO. :wallbash:

I don't think it's possible to draw any "obviously" - type conclusions 8 games into a season.

 

I'll ask you what I asked PAFan (and what he declined to answer): do you think the Sabres should've given Tallinder a 4-year, $13.5MM deal?

 

Do you think the Capitals' goal is to win the Cup? They have over $1.7MM in cap space.

 

DR signed Leopold and Morrisson, both of whom, I believe, will prove to be better than Tallinder. (Now, you might say, and I might agree, that you'd rather have 1 $6MM defenseman than those 2 guys for $6MM in total, but it's still not like the Sabres kept the money.)

 

I'll take 10 Vaneks before I take 1 Kovalchuk.

NFW. Vanek is at this point closer to a Cheechoo than to a Kovy.

 

From what I remember, the Sabres are spending over the cap in actual salary. That is the only number the FO worries about. They could care less about the league's cap.

No -- they are well below. Check capgeek.com for this info.

 

Golisano has spent to the cap.

 

Shooting fish in a barrel is fun, then eventually gets boring.

 

I read X's point to be that there are coaches out there who could be a good fit for Kovalchuk. I would assume X doesn't think Ruff is one of those coaches. Hence, if the Sabres had acquired Kovalchuk, I would guess that X would have thought the Sabres needed a new coach. Like I said, oblique.

What fish are those?

 

Stating an irrelevant fact (ie the Sabres have spent to the cap when the cap was much lower) and ignoring the real issue (ie the monetary constraints that exist in real world for the Sabres) isn't shooting fish in a barrel. It's just being the opposite of acute.

 

Similarly, implying that a highly credible poster would support firing Lindy and bringing in Kovy also isn't shooting fish in a barrel, nor is it making a clever or oblique reference. It's just free association that is neither here nor there.

[bunomatic]

The devils have 14.9 more years to watch this play out and how many coaches is Kovy going to run out of town in that timeframe?

[Eleven]

Tallinder was only decent in contract years.

 

Kovy was a freaking healthy scratch, six or seven games in to his new big deal.

 

What the hell else really needs to be said?

 

Not every move the Sabres make is a genius move, but offering Tallinder a short deal, and staying the hell away from Kovy, were smart.

[SwampD]

I don't think it's possible to draw any "obviously" - type conclusions 8 games into a season.

I'll ask you what I asked PAFan (and what he declined to answer): do you think the Sabres should've given Tallinder a 4-year, $13.5MM deal?

 

Do you think the Capitals' goal is to win the Cup? They have over $1.7MM in cap space.

 

DR signed Leopold and Morrisson, both of whom, I believe, will prove to be better than Tallinder. (Now, you might say, and I might agree, that you'd rather have 1 $6MM defenseman than those 2 guys for $6MM in total, but it's still not like the Sabres kept the money.)

I don't really have an answer. I wasn't really arguing about specific details, just the logic used to get there. So many people have said that they didn't (don't) want Kovalchuk because even though his numbers say he is worth it, he would kill the team. They then say that Tallinder isn't worth it, when he actually may bring more to the team than the numbers (making Myers a better player).

 

(I hope you understand what I'm saying because I'm not sure I do anymore. I need more coffee)