X. Benedict Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 Had the sabres not matched Vanek what would've been the compensation from the Oilers? 4 first round picks over 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 Maybe the Sabres should never have let ANY good player go, EVER. They should have kept every good player and never let them leave, no matter what. I laugh when I read who is here and who isn't. It's sports baby. It's cyclical. You can't keep everyone. We didn't make the dance in a very competitive league. It happens. I agree. You can only have so many players making 4+ mil a year and I'd rather have Pominville, Roy & Miller instead of Drury, Briere & Campbell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Done Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 Here is where Lindy is to blame. Afinogenov, Kotalik, Kalinin, Gaustad, Vanek.........all these guys have been "dumbed down" in to the system. They each have specific assets that are useless when forced to play inside a specific system. Lindy seems to feel that he has a bunch of skill players and he dismisses the physical part of the game. He also, by stressing a system, is turning into a plug and play coach. A guy like Pominville or Hecht is what Lindy wants, but when you force guys to go on automatic pilot, you are going to get mediocre results. Lindy figured it out by game 77. He finally put Gaustad, Kotalik and Bernier together, and that line almost kept the Sabres in the chase. If I were an opposing GM with a coach that has a more trusting and subjective style, I would try to get Max and Kotalik, and sign Kalinin. The first two have been around too long and are sick of the assembly line stuff. I am also hesitant to annoint Sekera the #1 defenseman, and I am also hesitant to annoint him the #6 defenseman. He seems to crack under pressure, as I have seen him literally panic with the puck when under attack from an aggressive forecheck. I believe he is Kalinin Light. His success was more to do with solid play from Weber. Weber is the type of #4-6 Dman that can stick around for a while. As everyone knows, I have no faith in this entire crew from top to bottom. Can it get worse than this year? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 Lindy figured it out by game 77. He finally put Gaustad, Kotalik and Bernier together, and that line almost kept the Sabres in the chase. Huh? They had one memorable shift where Gaustad scored the tying goal at the end of the game. Also what are these assets that Kalinin, Gaustad, Max & Kotalik have that are being suppressed by Lindy? The only one I agree with being mishandled is Vanek with the "go stand in front of the net and try and tip the puck in" strategy. Kalinin, Max & to a lesser extent Kotalik flat out sucked this year and it has nothing to do with coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 Maybe the Sabres should never have let ANY good player go, EVER. They should have kept every good player and never let them leave, no matter what. I laugh when I read who is here and who isn't. It's sports baby. It's cyclical. You can't keep everyone. We didn't make the dance in a very competitive league. It happens. This is the kind of response we get when there is no good answer to the mistakes management made. Suddenly all are lumped in with the few irrationals and everything is dismissed. There is no good answer to why it ended so soon. We know its cyclical, we know its sports. It didn't have to end so soon. There should have been a good four or five year run with a team led by Drury, Roy, Pominville, Miller and Campbell. Instead it was blown up prematurely because management lacked foresight and now they circle the wagons and all give differing answers to what went wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 this team was in deep #%^$#! WITH Mr. Veins Veins Veins IN the lineup as well as without him. Something which seems to be lost on every hack out there calling himself a writer. Where was "All-Star Brian" during our 11-game losing streak? QFT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgs14 Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 This describes the Buffalo Sabres organization to a T. It's going to do wonders for bringing free agents in. The Sabres are looking better and better by the day. It's a circus at HSBC and I ain't talkin Ringling Bros. Thanks TG, LQ and DR for destroying this hockey town bit by bit. Agreed.... But DR is a victim of TG and LQ.... Like Bills Parcells said: "if you want me to make dinner, you gotta let me buy the groceries." TG and LQ have given DR food stamps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 Agreed.... But DR is a victim of TG and LQ.... Like Bills Parcells said: "if you want me to make dinner, you gotta let me buy the groceries." TG and LQ have given DR food stamps. Have you even watched a game over the past three seasons? The team has over 160 wins. There has to be a lot of messy keyboards out there because too many of you are typing out your a$$es. As a Sabre fan it's starting to become a bit embarrassing. The level of posts are starting to drop down to Philly Fan level. The team missed the playoffs. Grow up and get over it. Back to back Conference Finals and with one step back many want to blow the whole thing up. If you can't look at this team and see a ton of talent I have to ask what the hell you are doing on a hockey board. No one or no team is free of criticisms. It would just be nice if someone would come up with one that had some merit behind it. It breaks my heart to see this board overrun with Bucky Ecklund wannabes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 Have you even watched a game over the past three seasons? The team has over 160 wins. There has to be a lot of messy keyboards out there because too many of you are typing out your a$$es. As a Sabre fan it's starting to become a bit embarrassing. The level of posts are starting to drop down to Philly Fan level. The team missed the playoffs. Grow up and get over it. Back to back Conference Finals and with one step back many want to blow the whole thing up. If you can't look at this team and see a ton of talent I have to ask what the hell you are doing on a hockey board. No one or no team is free of criticisms. It would just be nice if someone would come up with one that had some merit behind it. It breaks my heart to see this board overrun with Bucky Ecklund wannabes. You don't want to blow the whole thing up after one bad year, yet they blew the whole thing up after two ECF's. I agree that some of the criticism goes over the top, but what evidence is there that they know how to right the ship? If you are still waiting for that valid criticism, i would say to you, what is that one indisputable piece of eveidence that suggests that they had to blow it up? If they would have come out and said that "we don't think this team can win the Cup with these players," I would have been less annoyed then for them to bungle negotiations so badly(whatever you believe about the offers) that they embrarassed themselves and have become the subject of countless artices by respected national media. Finally, I hope you are right about all this young talent. but I look at the teams ahead of Buffalo and a couple below and they seem to think that they have an abundance of young talent too. What teams do you think they will over take next year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 Finally, I hope you are right about all this young talent. but I look at the teams ahead of Buffalo and a couple below and they seem to think that they have an abundance of young talent too. What teams do you think they will over take next year? I wish I could remember where I saw it, but a while back someone posted the number of points put up by players 25 or younger (the cutoff may have been older, but you get the point). That number, both total and average, was miles ahead of anyone else in the league. That paints a good picture of this young talent issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 You don't want to blow the whole thing up after one bad year, yet they blew the whole thing up after two ECF's. I agree that some of the criticism goes over the top, but what evidence is there that they know how to right the ship?If you are still waiting for that valid criticism, i would say to you, what is that one indisputable piece of eveidence that suggests that they had to blow it up? If they would have come out and said that "we don't think this team can win the Cup with these players," I would have been less annoyed then for them to bungle negotiations so badly(whatever you believe about the offers) that they embrarassed themselves and have become the subject of countless artices by respected national media. Finally, I hope you are right about all this young talent. but I look at the teams ahead of Buffalo and a couple below and they seem to think that they have an abundance of young talent too. What teams do you think they will over take next year? No! They didn't blow the whole thing up. The took the first steps into evolving into the team they are going to be. They had a nice run, they defined who they want the core of this team to be and they are building a solid team with young talent while being responsible financially. Every franchise makes mistakes or makes decisions that in hindsight they would do differently. Even the Stanley Cup Champs will look back at this season and ask themselves what they can do better. What teams can the Sabres catch? All of them. There isn't one team in the East that is far and away better than any other team. With Sekera and Weber, I expect the Sabres blue line to be stronger and tougher. I am interested to see what moves are made in the forward ranks. This should be a interesting off season for the Sabres. They should have a strong draft and they have chips to play if they want to make some changes. As far as "respected national media". I put more faith into the opinions of some on this board then I do any media. Those on this board who follow the team on a daily basis are more in tune with what the Sabres are trying to do. Most modern day media tends to be lazy. They sit home and watch Center Ice and think they know what going on with the Sabres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 No! They didn't blow the whole thing up. The took the first steps into evolving into the team they are going to be. They had a nice run, they defined who they want the core of this team to be and they are building a solid team with young talent while being responsible financially. Every franchise makes mistakes or makes decisions that in hindsight they would do differently. Even the Stanley Cup Champs will look back at this season and ask themselves what they can do better. What teams can the Sabres catch? All of them. There isn't one team in the East that is far and away better than any other team. With Sekera and Weber, I expect the Sabres blue line to be stronger and tougher. I am interested to see what moves are made in the forward ranks. This should be a interesting off season for the Sabres. They should have a strong draft and they have chips to play if they want to make some changes. As far as "respected national media". I put more faith into the opinions of some on this board then I do any media. Those on this board who follow the team on a daily basis are more in tune with what the Sabres are trying to do. Most modern day media tends to be lazy. They sit home and watch Center Ice and think they know what going on with the Sabres. We will see. I've been around this game a long time and haven't seen such a dramatic fall from the top and I have seen good young talent turn into unfulfilled potential. For me the two ECF teams are now done. If management addresses this team's shortcomings and moves forward, I will be willing to concede that they knew what they were doing. Right now it looks like it could just as easily be chalked up to they messed up and don't know how to fix it. I have heard you refer to the draft a couple of times, and while they should do well with potentially as many as 5 picks in the first two rounds, the fruits of this draft won't be felt for at least two years if not more although there is a chance for pick number six who should play almost immediately. As for respected media, I believe that holds true for NFL analysts and some NHL writers, however, there are still the Red Fischers and the like who earn a high rate of respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 I wish I could remember where I saw it, but a while back someone posted the number of points put up by players 25 or younger (the cutoff may have been older, but you get the point). That number, both total and average, was miles ahead of anyone else in the league. That paints a good picture of this young talent issue. I remember seeing that stat and don't think if they were miles ahead. In fact when I saw it they were in the top 5. I believe they ended up overtaking the top spot when you include Bernier's goals from San Jose. I don't have the tmie to tally them up but i got to believe that Pittsburgh and Washington are right up there with them. Anyway, the point was that you can never be sure how young talent is going to develop. To assume that every player is going to develop into a useful player is wishful thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted April 6, 2008 Report Share Posted April 6, 2008 We will see. I've been around this game a long time and haven't seen such a dramatic fall from the top and I have seen good young talent turn into unfulfilled potential. For me the two ECF teams are now done. If management addresses this team's shortcomings and moves forward, I will be willing to concede that they knew what they were doing. Right now it looks like it could just as easily be chalked up to they messed up and don't know how to fix it.I have heard you refer to the draft a couple of times, and while they should do well with potentially as many as 5 picks in the first two rounds, the fruits of this draft won't be felt for at least two years if not more although there is a chance for pick number six who should play almost immediately. As for respected media, I believe that holds true for NFL analysts and some NHL writers, however, there are still the Red Fischers and the like who earn a high rate of respect. How many Sabres games has Red Fischer seen in person this season? It is said the game passes by players and coaches. I feel the same for hockey writers or media types. Take Don Cherry for example. He is so out of touch it's not funny. I don't feel many of the "old guard" in the media know how to make out the economic effects as well as the Erou-influence of players. In the end I base my opinions on what I saw not what some guy in Toronto saw from his couch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stenbaro Posted April 6, 2008 Report Share Posted April 6, 2008 I agree. You can only have so many players making 4+ mil a year and I'd rather have Pominville, Roy & Miller instead of Drury, Briere & Campbell. Now that the season is over its a ridiculous point over who you would take over who...Players are in a different position on different teams..Playing different roles...I would rather have all of them and I believe they could have.,....Contracts could have been transacted a whole lot earlier and with different terms...If I were to rank them in importance going in to next season at this moment in time i would rank them like Drury,Roy,Miller,Campbell,,Pominville,Brierre...And thats the orderin which I wouldve payed them the bigger contracts with all things being equal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stenbaro Posted April 6, 2008 Report Share Posted April 6, 2008 No! They didn't blow the whole thing up. The took the first steps into evolving into the team they are going to be. They had a nice run, they defined who they want the core of this team to be and they are building a solid team with young talent while being responsible financially. Every franchise makes mistakes or makes decisions that in hindsight they would do differently. Even the Stanley Cup Champs will look back at this season and ask themselves what they can do better. What teams can the Sabres catch? All of them. There isn't one team in the East that is far and away better than any other team. With Sekera and Weber, I expect the Sabres blue line to be stronger and tougher. I am interested to see what moves are made in the forward ranks. This should be a interesting off season for the Sabres. They should have a strong draft and they have chips to play if they want to make some changes. As far as "respected national media". I put more faith into the opinions of some on this board then I do any media. Those on this board who follow the team on a daily basis are more in tune with what the Sabres are trying to do. Most modern day media tends to be lazy. They sit home and watch Center Ice and think they know what going on with the Sabres. You are right they didnt blow the whole thing up..To blow it up would imply they had a plan..They screwed it up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted April 6, 2008 Report Share Posted April 6, 2008 You are right they didnt blow the whole thing up..To blow it up would imply they had a plan..They screwed it up... I wish I would have said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted April 6, 2008 Report Share Posted April 6, 2008 How many Sabres games has Red Fischer seen in person this season? It is said the game passes by players and coaches. I feel the same for hockey writers or media types. Take Don Cherry for example. He is so out of touch it's not funny. I don't feel many of the "old guard" in the media know how to make out the economic effects as well as the Erou-influence of players. In the end I base my opinions on what I saw not what some guy in Toronto saw from his couch. DeLuca, I am trying hard to give you the benefit of the doubt because i know you care, but you just keep trying to hard to be contrarian. Fischer is a well respected writer. I didn't meantion Cherry because I agree with you. You tell me Golisano somehow earned and deserves respect, I would say the same for Fischer. You also waffle back and forth on the purging of the roster. Where they economic decisions or talent decisions? Did they re-tool(I prefer blow up) because the team couldn't win or because they couldn't figure a way to budget for them. To me this is a major point because I believe that the whole "we couldn't afford it" will be blown out of the water in the coming months/years. Its more about choosing not to pay, in my humble opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stenbaro Posted April 6, 2008 Report Share Posted April 6, 2008 I wish I would have said that. I read the whole thing and it just made to much sense..lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matter2003 Posted April 6, 2008 Report Share Posted April 6, 2008 Here are notes from the astute Montreal hockey writers. Red Fischer When you lead the league in points one year and face the dreary prospect of missing the playoffs the following season, you don't allow the opposition to outwork you. You don't allow Steve B?gin, a second-place finisher by a hair in a race for a loose puck, to place his hand on the back of Andrej Sekera's head and drive him face-first into the glass. At the very least, you try to do something about it, even though neither referee did. You don't win games you have to win to stay alive with only 14 shots in the first 40 minutes, and only four in the second period. Pat Hickey The Sabres learned something from their past dealings, but not enough. They made a familiar mistake this season when they failed to sign defenceman Bryan Campbell. At least this time around, they were smart enough to get something for him, trading him to San Jose for Steve Bernier and a first-round draft choice. "I wanted to stay in Buffalo, we all did," Campbell said after the trade that made a very good San Jose team even better. "Buffalo didn't want to pay us." I think part of the problem is that Buffalo backed themselves into a corner against the cap with some of the other signings they made, like Connolly, Afinigenov, Kotalik, etc... They have too many sort of expensive mid-level players in the 3-4 million range. If they paid Campbell the 6-7 million he was probably looking for, then they would have a real problem on their hands trying to sign Pominville and Miller to long term extensions this offseason... In the end, I think they had to make a very tough decision of either signing Campbell and possibly losing Miller and/or Pominville or trading Campbell for something and trying to sign Pominville and Miller longterm...not to mention Paille and Gaustad as RFA's.... I can't say I liked what happened, but I can say I at least somewhat understand it....IMHO, they signed too many mid-level guys to 3-4 million dollar contracts and didn't leave themselves enough wiggle room to resign potential all-stars they need to win a cup... It appears Weber and Sekera are going to be sure fire studs in the NHL for a long long time to come for this team, and maybe the Sabres realized that they may have more blueline depth that is ready to play than forwards and/or goalies if they can't sign Pominville or Miller... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted April 6, 2008 Report Share Posted April 6, 2008 I think part of the problem is that Buffalo backed themselves into a corner against the cap with some of the other signings they made, like Connolly, Afinigenov, Kotalik, etc... They have too many sort of expensive mid-level players in the 3-4 million range. If they paid Campbell the 6-7 million he was probably looking for, then they would have a real problem on their hands trying to sign Pominville and Miller to long term extensions this offseason... In the end, I think they had to make a very tough decision of either signing Campbell and possibly losing Miller and/or Pominville or trading Campbell for something and trying to sign Pominville and Miller longterm...not to mention Paille and Gaustad as RFA's.... I can't say I liked what happened, but I can say I at least somewhat understand it....IMHO, they signed too many mid-level guys to 3-4 million dollar contracts and didn't leave themselves enough wiggle room to resign potential all-stars they need to win a cup... It appears Weber and Sekera are going to be sure fire studs in the NHL for a long long time to come for this team, and maybe the Sabres realized that they may have more blueline depth that is ready to play than forwards and/or goalies if they can't sign Pominville or Miller... I keep telling myself I am not going to keep responding to this but I can't help myself. Connolly, Max and Kotalik will all be off the books by the time Miller and Pominville's new contracts hit the books. There was plenty of money under the cap to fit Campbell, they eve offered almost $6 million per year but for only three years. There might be valid reasons for not signing him, but cap space is not one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matter2003 Posted April 6, 2008 Report Share Posted April 6, 2008 I keep telling myself I am not going to keep responding to this but I can't help myself. Connolly, Max and Kotalik will all be off the books by the time Miller and Pominville's new contracts hit the books. There was plenty of money under the cap to fit Campbell, they eve offered almost $6 million per year but for only three years. There might be valid reasons for not signing him, but cap space is not one. Hmm...that is a good point, but I think maybe what the Sabres also looked at is Phaneuf's contract as well, which even though it is a significant discount from what he is actually worth on the market, made Campbell look silly for trying to get more than that... Phaneuf is a Stanley Cup winning type defenseman, while Campbell is more of a flashy, make highlight reel plays, get your team to the playoffs type defenseman... not to mention that Phaneuf is already significantly better than Campbell as a defenseman...he is the definition of true stud defenseman...big, strong, mean, quick, and will put you into the zamboni entrance if you go into the corners against him... IMHO, Campbell is not even in the same area code as far as value as a player...if Phaneuf is making 6 million a season, Campbell should be getting like 4 or 4.5...for Campbell to suggest that he is a better player and more valuable to a team than Phaneuf is just ridiculous in my opinion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stenbaro Posted April 6, 2008 Report Share Posted April 6, 2008 Hmm...that is a good point, but I think maybe what the Sabres also looked at is Phaneuf's contract as well, which even though it is a significant discount from what he is actually worth on the market, made Campbell look silly for trying to get more than that... Phaneuf is a Stanley Cup winning type defenseman, while Campbell is more of a flashy, make highlight reel plays, get your team to the playoffs type defenseman... not to mention that Phaneuf is already significantly better than Campbell as a defenseman...he is the definition of true stud defenseman...big, strong, mean, quick, and will put you into the zamboni entrance if you go into the corners against him... IMHO, Campbell is not even in the same area code as far as value as a player...if Phaneuf is making 6 million a season, Campbell should be getting like 4 or 4.5...for Campbell to suggest that he is a better player and more valuable to a team than Phaneuf is just ridiculous in my opinion... Please post a link??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted April 6, 2008 Report Share Posted April 6, 2008 Hmm...that is a good point, but I think maybe what the Sabres also looked at is Phaneuf's contract as well, which even though it is a significant discount from what he is actually worth on the market, made Campbell look silly for trying to get more than that... Phaneuf is a Stanley Cup winning type defenseman, while Campbell is more of a flashy, make highlight reel plays, get your team to the playoffs type defenseman... not to mention that Phaneuf is already significantly better than Campbell as a defenseman...he is the definition of true stud defenseman...big, strong, mean, quick, and will put you into the zamboni entrance if you go into the corners against him... IMHO, Campbell is not even in the same area code as far as value as a player...if Phaneuf is making 6 million a season, Campbell should be getting like 4 or 4.5...for Campbell to suggest that he is a better player and more valuable to a team than Phaneuf is just ridiculous in my opinion... Phaneuf was only going to be restricted and is still a few years away from total free agency. Players have far less leverage under those circumstances. Campbell never said he was better and I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matter2003 Posted April 6, 2008 Report Share Posted April 6, 2008 Phaneuf was only going to be restricted and is still a few years away from total free agency. Players have far less leverage under those circumstances. Campbell never said he was better and I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks that. True, but I am pretty sure he would have commanded a Vanek-like RFA offer from a desperate team who saw him as their cornerstone for the next 10 years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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